experience of Fruition?

Muriel Sicot, modified 1 Year ago at 1/18/23 12:30 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/18/23 12:30 AM

experience of Fruition?

Posts: 5 Join Date: 1/17/23 Recent Posts
Dear Community,

I'm wondering how you experience fruition as it is not described in the scriptures.

I experience a White out: an intense flash of white light as everything is vanishing, conciousness itself and then it reappears. Does it sounds familiar to you? 

I'm asking because I had them for years while sitting not knowing what it was and not paying much attention to it since I tought "it might be that" emoticon

I'd appreciate any kind of feedback on your experiences!

Wish you a wonderful day, my friends!
Daniel M Ingram, modified 1 Year ago at 1/18/23 11:15 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/18/23 11:15 AM

RE: experience of Fruition?

Posts: 3275 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
Diagnosing Fruition is a tricky business, but it benefits from the general framework of examining carefully:
1) The Setup: What came before it, such as stages of insight, jhanas, etc. and which ones, in what apparent order, in what setting, etc.
2) The Entrance: given that many state shifts, such as from one jhana or insight stage to the next one, can involve 3-4 rapid "impulsions" or mind moments that lead to a shift which can appear to have some sort of hard to comprehent glitchy something in between, the best discrimininating microphenomenological advice I have it so look for the Three Doors as described in MCTB.org and involves the sense that all attention centers and all of experience converged together to result in perfect comprehension of all of experience at once in a way that totally demolishes Subject/Object lines through inclusion, though numerous stages might have that later aspect presenting pretty strongly, including strong A&P events and other state transitions.
3) The Thing Itself: given that the mind has this tendency to want to make sense of things, determining what was a very highly incomprenhensible glitch from a true frame-cut, as occurs in Fruition, is tricky, and this appears to be at least moderately prone to wishful thinking and scripting, but, still, true frame-cuts can also become easier to detect if one is diligent and able to repeat this (see point 6).
4) The Exit: meaning how exactly the mind comes out of the event and what it comes out to, which, after Fruition is a rapid, sense of a clean, refreshed restart of experience and Subject-Object dualism (in stages below arahatship).
5) The Aftereffects: For first time Fruitions or for those at a new path, this should involve a powerful, blooming afterglow of a very particular "flavor" or body-feel, as well as new capabilities that come with a new path/Review phase. For repeat Fruitions, this afterglow will likely become diminished with time, but can get build up and become stronger if one repeats multiple Fruitions closely in a row.

Point 6) is repetition, meaning perhaps the ability to repeat what appears to be the event, and go through points 1-5 again and again, to determine if it really seems to hold up.

There is a lot I could say, but those are the basics.

Enjoy the exploration!


PS: Intense flashes of white light also are pretty A&P-esque, a common mimic, and can also occur at other stages and doing other practices, such as during fire kasina/light kasina retreats at points. So, keep an open differential diagnosis list and keep exploring!
Muriel Sicot, modified 1 Year ago at 1/18/23 12:26 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/18/23 12:24 PM

RE: experience of Fruition?

Posts: 5 Join Date: 1/17/23 Recent Posts
 Dear Daniel,
Thank you very much for your very detailed and clear answer. It's very much appreciated.

The 'white flashes' that I think are fruition always come after a certain sequence of mind states and a precise setting. Unfortunately, I can not describe this sequence using your terminology. I'm not that versed into it yet. What I can say is that it is very reproducible. I'm a physicist and as in my research, I study the reproducibility of this mind states quite seriously in order to be able to reach that way again.

Point 1) it is very reproducible and my mind goes through certain states and stages to reach these whiteouts

Point 2) I have read many times your book and particularly these points about the entrance doors but so far I can not tell from which door I enter. I'm training myself though emoticon

Point 3) it really looks like a frame-cut. Everything vanishes like you've lost your memory for a split second or you didn't know where you were. There was no longer body/time/object/subject for sure.

Point 4) exactly what you describe: reappearance of experience and dualism and the feeling "oh no, *I'm* damn back again"

Point 5) aftereffects of the 2 fruitions at new paths were VERY VERY strong, indescribable how strong they were in intensity and feelings (and you know something has been dropped away). The first one was specially an insanely intense afterglow but those white flashes I attribute to regular Fruitions have nothing in common regarding intensity. It's an almost neutral feeling. I rarely have repeated Fruitions  unless my  concentration is high. I'll train that again and see if the feelings becomes more rapturous.

I'll train point 1 and 2, investigate more precisely and in point 5, I'll try to get more fruitions in a row and check the feelings. 

I'd like to thank you again for all your work you have put out there and for the dedication you have to help others. Many times your online materials helped me to not believe I was totally insane emoticon. Your guidelines and walkthroughs the sequence of the fire kasina are extra-ordinarily well described and helpful. The Magick section in MCTB is fanstastic. I bow...