interpretations of HAIETMOBA

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carolin varley, modified 10 Years ago at 12/2/11 1:07 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 12/2/11 1:07 PM

interpretations of HAIETMOBA

Posts: 55 Join Date: 8/26/10 Recent Posts
Thought I would just start a thread where people can contribute their interpretations of this handy phrase, as since I've been using asking myself this question over and over the last few weeks I've noticed how it has come to mean different things to me.

Today for example, I was asking it in the center of London and feeling a bit overwhelmed (ahhh so much stuff happening. Sensory overload!) so I tweaked it to asking myself "How do I KNOW that I am alive right now?" How is this experience different from nothingness, nonexistence? That made things easier, and right now I can ask myself this and know that I know I am alive because I can see my hands typing this, and hear the load clicking noise from the key buttons on my old laptop.

Hope to gather some more interpretations here, since it seems like everyone has a slightly different take on this question. (Or if someone could just post a link if there is already a similar thread on dho/ page on the AF site.

Sensuousness rules!
m m a, modified 10 Years ago at 12/2/11 2:16 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 12/2/11 2:16 PM

RE: interpretations of HAIETMOBA

Posts: 153 Join Date: 6/9/11 Recent Posts
I don't interpret HAIETMOBA, it refers to something past or beneath a conceptual level. for me, it is the same as the instruction 'listen for the ships in the harbor', even though we are not near a harbor and i don't even know what the ships would sound like.

my HAIETMOBA is simply that moment where there is a spontaneous realization of exactly what my brain is doing (telling a story, bitching about pain, etc.), and either willfully or not (its not clear to me which), instead my awareness moves to physical things like the pain itself, or a cool breeze, or awareness itself.


two cents from a someone who doesnt practice AF specifically
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Oliver Myth, modified 10 Years ago at 12/5/11 6:38 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 12/5/11 6:38 AM

RE: interpretations of HAIETMOBA

Posts: 143 Join Date: 6/10/11 Recent Posts
Recently HAIETMOBA has been helping me with my attentiveness. If I start asking this question repetitively so that I get in the habit of it, then when I've lost my attentive/sensuousness all of a sudden the words will pop into my head: "How am I experiencing this moment of being alive?". And then, BAM, I'm right back to being self-reflective/attentive.
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 10 Years ago at 12/5/11 9:24 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 12/5/11 9:24 AM

RE: interpretations of HAIETMOBA

Posts: 2227 Join Date: 10/27/10 Recent Posts
Thanks to this thread, I now go about HAIETMOBA a bit differently... (btw I usually don't actually ask the words, I just start paying attention).
  • Pay attention. If I notice suffering (tension, emotion, mood, passion, whatever)...
  • Release the suffering. Here it's vital to activate sincerity. It seems that all it is is agreeing to let go of ignorance. Apperception is not learned - your brain can do it, right now, at this instant... is doing it, actually, it's just covered up. And all that is covering it up is ignorance, which is a 'positive' process in that it's something you are doing - thus something that you can stop doing. I've found it helps to talk to myself like: "Do I really think this suffering is important to hold on to? Do I really think that clinging to it will bring peace?" This seems to activate a facility of the mind which cuts right through it and allows the suffering to be dropped.
    After releasing the suffering...
  • Re-focus on something wholesome. When the suffering goes away it kind of leaves a gap of unused mental energy. Try going into the gap as the gap is absence of suffering. Felicity, basically. Also re-focusing on sensuousness helps.
  • Keep up the wholesome state. Put all the energy into keeping up that wholesome state... since when it stabilizes, you will then be able to do steps 1-3 from that state, which then becomes even more wholesome, etc...
Previously I was only doing #1, which led to really unhappy days as I would just notice suffering. But after doing it explicitly with all the steps (mostly #2 and #3), I feel a lot better.

What also helps is the instruction: "neutral sticks out!" This is a pointer to look at what feels 'neutral' or 'blah' or 'nothing-there', as it usually indicates a lack of attention on those areas. Especially good for covering the whole surface of the skin in sensuousness.
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Tommy M, modified 10 Years ago at 12/5/11 3:50 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 12/5/11 3:50 PM

RE: interpretations of HAIETMOBA

Posts: 1199 Join Date: 11/12/10 Recent Posts

1. Pay attention. If I notice suffering (tension, emotion, mood, passion, whatever)...
2. Release the suffering. Here it's vital to activate sincerity. It seems that all it is is agreeing to let go of ignorance. Apperception is not learned - your brain can do it, right now, at this instant... is doing it, actually, it's just covered up. And all that is covering it up is ignorance, which is a 'positive' process in that it's something you are doing - thus something that you can stop doing. I've found it helps to talk to myself like: "Do I really think this suffering is important to hold on to? Do I really think that clinging to it will bring peace?" This seems to activate a facility of the mind which cuts right through it and allows the suffering to be dropped.
After releasing the suffering...
3. Re-focus on something wholesome. When the suffering goes away it kind of leaves a gap of unused mental energy. Try going into the gap as the gap is absence of suffering. Felicity, basically. Also re-focusing on sensuousness helps.
4. Keep up the wholesome state. Put all the energy into keeping up that wholesome state... since when it stabilizes, you will then be able to do steps 1-3 from that state, which then becomes even more wholesome, etc...

Nicely condensed!
m m a, modified 10 Years ago at 12/5/11 9:23 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 12/5/11 9:23 PM

RE: interpretations of HAIETMOBA

Posts: 153 Join Date: 6/9/11 Recent Posts
What means this 'release the suffering'?

Lets say I notice an un-wholesome mind state,say, preoccupation with some future event.
I indentify restlessness,anxiety, etc. How do i 'release'?
And then what is a wholesome mind state? A state of focused attention on a physical sensation?
Ian Clarkson, modified 10 Years ago at 12/5/11 10:07 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 12/5/11 10:07 PM

RE: interpretations of HAIETMOBA

Posts: 5 Join Date: 1/11/11 Recent Posts
I interpret it as "what is being perceived at this moment"
and find all the senses, feelings, thoughts, imaginings, resistance/craving and me are all already being perceived, now, by the consciouness of this body.
If it is noticable it is already being perceived.
This containment has a friendly quality that makes it really easy to relax and be happy, and also makes it easy to see the distinction between the actual world and the mess of the illusory me (especially the built up strength of 'past experiences'), and thus easier to practise 'getting out of the way'.
Even happy me is still me, although it is more enjoyable, it is still not actual.
Hmmm, it really is quite difficult to write about these experiences with out appearing to be completely muddled.
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 10 Years ago at 12/6/11 12:31 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 12/6/11 12:30 AM

RE: interpretations of HAIETMOBA

Posts: 2227 Join Date: 10/27/10 Recent Posts
m m a:
What means this 'release the suffering'?

Lets say I notice an un-wholesome mind state,say, preoccupation with some future event.
I indentify restlessness,anxiety, etc. How do i 'release'?


Well this takes practice of course. The simplest answer, and what always works ultimately regardless of how you do it, is "just release it". let it go. maybe un-tense a muscle if you notice it as a physical tension.

Don't think of it as something 'positive' you have to do. It isn't an action you take - an act of releasing (like lifting your hand). The tension is something you are already doing - you just have to stop doing it. It's like your hand is raised already, but you don't realize it - all you have to do is let it drop to your side.

It can be as simple as realizing that your life and the life of those around you would be far better off if you were to experience the wholesome mind state instead of the tension.

m m a:
And then what is a wholesome mind state? A state of focused attention on a physical sensation?

There are many possibilities... a state of happiness or harmlessness; a state of naivete; generally enjoying life; being sensuous; etc...
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#1 - 0, modified 10 Years ago at 12/6/11 7:33 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 12/6/11 7:33 PM

RE: interpretations of HAIETMOBA

Posts: 104 Join Date: 8/8/10 Recent Posts
Like this:




HAIETMOBA is the gun
HAPPINESS & HARMLESSNESS is the target
YOU are the bullet
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Jon T, modified 10 Years ago at 12/9/11 1:36 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 12/9/11 1:36 AM

RE: interpretations of HAIETMOBA

Posts: 401 Join Date: 12/30/10 Recent Posts
m m a:
What means this 'release the suffering'?

Lets say I notice an un-wholesome mind state,say, preoccupation with some future event.
I indentify restlessness,anxiety, etc. How do i 'release'?


Well this takes practice of course. The simplest answer, and what always works ultimately regardless of how you do it, is "just release it". let it go. maybe un-tense a muscle if you notice it as a physical tension.

Don't think of it as something 'positive' you have to do. It isn't an action you take - an act of releasing (like lifting your hand). The tension is something you are already doing - you just have to stop doing it. It's like your hand is raised already, but you don't realize it - all you have to do is let it drop to your side.

It can be as simple as realizing that your life and the life of those around you would be far better off if you were to experience the wholesome mind state instead of the tension.

m m a:
And then what is a wholesome mind state? A state of focused attention on a physical sensation?

There are many possibilities... a state of happiness or harmlessness; a state of naivete; generally enjoying life; being sensuous; etc...



+1
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Martin M, modified 10 Years ago at 12/9/11 2:42 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 12/9/11 2:42 AM

RE: interpretations of HAIETMOBA

Posts: 91 Join Date: 9/3/09 Recent Posts
m m a:
What means this 'release the suffering'?

Lets say I notice an un-wholesome mind state,say, preoccupation with some future event.
I indentify restlessness,anxiety, etc. How do i 'release'?
And then what is a wholesome mind state? A state of focused attention on a physical sensation?


To quote from Venerable U Vimalaramsi´s ebook on TWIM[1]:


When a feeling or thought arises, the
meditator RELEASES it, let’s it be there without giving
anymore attention to it. The content of the distraction is not
important at all, but the mechanics of HOW it arose are
important! Just let go of any tightness around it; let it be
there without placing attention on it. Without attention, the
tightness passes away.


I found this diverging of attention especially neccessary in regards to head tension (related to all variations of effort).

[1] http://www.dhammasukha.org/Study/Books/Pdf/The%20Anapanasati%20Sutta%202.pdf
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carolin varley, modified 10 Years ago at 12/21/11 8:59 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 12/21/11 8:59 AM

RE: interpretations of HAIETMOBA

Posts: 55 Join Date: 8/26/10 Recent Posts
Wo this post was really relevant to me right now.I really needed those pointers!
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Gardol U Yack, modified 10 Years ago at 12/30/11 6:57 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 12/30/11 6:57 AM

RE: interpretations of HAIETMOBA

Posts: 13 Join Date: 1/11/11 Recent Posts
Thanks for starting this thread, Carolyn. As a result of recent posts by Daniel on another thread, I have started investigating the possible connections between AF practice and lucid dreaming. You can find Daniels posts on this thread:

http://dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/2404614

I began by asking myself "How can AF practice increase lucid dreaming?" and I came up with my own interpretation of HAIETMOBA. I ask myself this question-

How does my present experience differ from dreaming?

I have tried many practices to promote lucid dreaming, but I never felt like those practices aligned much with my mindfulness practice. So although these LD practices gave me the great reward of increasing the frequency and length of lucid dreams, which I found both wildly enjoyable and occasionally healing, by themselves, the practices had no apparent benefits outside of generating more lucid dreams, and the questions and practices became tiresome over time. This question, (HDMPEDFD?) however, gives me a way of increasing my lucid dreams WHILE also helping me keep my attention on present moment awareness.
When I ask this question, I can note the different ways that my present perception of reality differs from my perception in dreams, especially lucid dreams, and I can work very specifically, or I can work broadly.
The specific noting results in a complex noting vocabulary, admittedly at the beginning stage:
normal
discomfort
gravity
future thought
unpleasant
normal
stable
gravity
anticipation thought
tongue
writing thought
context awareness
past thought
unpleasant
gravity
hunger
doubt

Some of these notation labels will only make sense to a lucid dreamer, or may be peculiar to my own experience. For example "normal" or "stable" I note in direct contrast to the usually abnormal and unstable environment of the lucid dream. Gravity affects me strongly in shared reality, but only marginally in dreaming. In lucid dreams I don't have future planning thoughts other than the very next thing I plan to do. In dreaming, I don't have memory of what happened an hour ago. In shared reality, I do, and I call that context awareness. I have unpleasant vedana in shared reality, but in lucid dreaming, I have unbounded joy and optimism. I have only experienced unpleasant vedana in lucid dreaming when I have gotten myself trapped underground. I had several dreams like that (years ago) until I learned to let go of the fear those situations created in me, and to generate a positive experience in any confined space. Once I did that, release from that "trap" became both irrelevant and inevitable.

Noting broadly, I can pay attention simply to my mood or the general tone of my experience. If my mood feels "normal" and not joyously optimistic, then that differs from lucid dreaming. If I note "unpleasant", without an environmental or situational cause, then that differs from lucid dreaming.

This practice benefits me in the same way my mindfulness practice, or HAIETMOBA practice benefits me. It keeps me focused on present awareness of reality. It triggers a sense of fascination and wonderment as I note different perceptions and wonder how these perceptions might differ in the dream world. Does my visual peripheral field look the same in waking as in dreaming? I don't know. Do my ears ring in lucid dreaming? I don't know. I still need to improve my level of mindfulness in the dream world, and I can only do that by improving my mindfulness in the waking world. This practice opens my mind to look deeper and broader into my present experience, and notice more details.

Just my two cents, anyway.
GY