Sense of no "I" (anatta?) has stabilized more, now seeking non-dual awarene

Tai An Zhou Zhou, modified 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 9:37 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 9:37 AM

Sense of no "I" (anatta?) has stabilized more, now seeking non-dual awarene

Posts: 36 Join Date: 6/24/23 Recent Posts
I've been doing more self-enquiry (which now stabilizes me in the "no I") state as well as a nondual meditation I found online in which I imagine objects as recognizing me as well as I recognize them, and then expanding that sense field to include everything. The state of no "I" seems to have become the default as long as I remain present. Now there are just sensations, "no doer only the doing".Obviously there is still an "I" that writes this post, but that is a localized sense of being that is required for the body and ego to move around.I've noticed that the "I" (ego) gets activated when I get jealous or upset, then I begins to surface. When this happens I try to use Angelo Dilulo's technique of just "dropping" the emotion, and I realize it is a huge mass of energy. Also, Eckhart Tolle has a technique in the New Earth of lettingthe experience of having the ego threatened actually boost the Higher Self, which seems to work.I've been in intensive therapy before, so I can recognize the arising of emotion as normal and I'm not spiritually bypassing it. It's interesting to observe the emotions with a different perspective.I feel I can go deeper and further though, so I have been doing the non-dual meditation. I am still perceiving time and space to exist, but at times when I do the meditation the sense of "in-betweeness" I've experienced before deepens - I can somehow feel I am the sofa (sky, whatever), and me, at the same time. I understand intellectually that there is only Consciousness expressing itself everywhere, sometimes that intellectual realization becomes an embodied feeling and then it fades. (it's hard to put into words)In general it feels like I am passing through stages, from disidentifying from the mind, to awareness, to no "I" and going onwards...not sure which model works the best for me. I've used xabir's models and the Maps of Insight in the past, maybe the ox-herding pictures are better? (I would say I am at the 3 or 4th ox-herding picture maybe?)(Interestingly enough when I post on the nonduality sub, people there seem to think there are no stages to awakening, whereas my experience and reading have been that there are.)I feel I am getting somewhere, and I do feel shifts in reality and identity, as well as more palpable joy and peace in each moment. The luminosity of previous stages has also intensified and become more stable. I'm also aware of emptiness "beneath" things, if that makes sense, and a latent brilliance in reality. As many here have said, it's more a letting go of than anything - the more the ego and mind loosen their hold, Higher Self/God/Consciousness shines through.As always, looking forwards to continuing, all insights welcome. (I'm aware that "progress" is also just remembering who you really are, the Source, but still has to happen as I'm still bound in timecurrently.)
Tai An Zhou Zhou, modified 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 9:37 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 9:37 AM

RE: Sense of no "I" (anatta?) has stabilized more, now seeking non-dual awa

Posts: 36 Join Date: 6/24/23 Recent Posts
No idea why the formatting gets messed up, a link.

​​​​​​​https://www.reddit.com/r/streamentry/comments/14yml6w/sense_of_no_i_anatta_has_stabilized_more_now/
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 11:37 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 11:23 AM

RE: Sense of no "I" (anatta?) has stabilized more, now seeking non-dual awa

Posts: 5404 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
What I'm going to say here will probably sound harsh, but folks need to pay heed to it: There is always an "I" in your perception. That's how human perception works - a subject/object distinction created by the mind. The issue isn't that there is "No I" (no self) but rather that you learn from investigation exactly what "you" (as in "I, me, mine") is. How it is constructed, and how it determines your experience. We can all temporarily convince ourselves that there is literally no self at all, anywhere. That hypnotic state lasts for a bit of time, and then it collapses under the weight of the reality of how things actually work to form our moment to moment experience. Investigate the "I" rather than going on a fool's errand to rid yourself of it.

​​​​​​​The heart of awakening lies knowing deeply what you are as a human being, and how you relate to the world in which you exist. Awakening is not found in denying parts of your existence.

By the way - an earnest investigation of your experience and how it is constructed will lead you to all the other things you seek, including emptiness, of which not-self (not NO self) is a subset. You (your "I") is just another empty object in your experience. It exists in the same way that the chair you sit on exists.
Tai An Zhou Zhou, modified 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 1:01 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 1:01 PM

RE: Sense of no "I" (anatta?) has stabilized more, now seeking non-dual awa

Posts: 36 Join Date: 6/24/23 Recent Posts
Yes, by no "I" I don't mean there is no human self that is here writing this. Of course there is. It's just that I don't experience the "selfing" that goes on so acutely. I understand that the "I" is made up of aggregates.

How do you suggest I continue? More self-enquiry?

BTW I love your Domo-kun avatar. emoticon
Julian Wirt, modified 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 4:17 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 4:09 PM

RE: Sense of no "I" (anatta?) has stabilized more, now seeking non-dual awa

Posts: 37 Join Date: 3/31/23 Recent Posts
Do newborns have a subject/object distinction? From what I recall it only arises at some later stage.

(FWIW I think this 'I' is mostly a linguistic phenomenon. Words are the only thing in the world that really has this linear, discrete, sequential flavor to it that consciousness does. Also recall that subject/object are originally also linguistic terms, as introduced by I think Aristotle? Try arranging your vision field in syntactic, or even in sequential terms.)
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 4:17 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 4:17 PM

RE: Sense of no "I" (anatta?) has stabilized more, now seeking non-dual awa

Posts: 5404 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Do newborns have a subject/object distinction? From what I recall it only arises at some later stage.

Do newborns talk? Do newborns count? Do newborns write poetry? I assume you realize that some of the capabilities we humans have are developed as we grow, especially early in life.
Julian Wirt, modified 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 4:22 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 4:22 PM

RE: Sense of no "I" (anatta?) has stabilized more, now seeking non-dual awa

Posts: 37 Join Date: 3/31/23 Recent Posts
But there's nothing ineveitable to it. I also think the object/subject distinction as experienced by modern humans is not very universal to human experience. Think about something like this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dancing_plague_of_1518

Do you feel committed to saying that these people had a self/other separation in the exact same way we do? And if self/other is suspect, why not object/subject?
Julian Wirt, modified 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 4:26 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 4:26 PM

RE: Sense of no "I" (anatta?) has stabilized more, now seeking non-dual awa

Posts: 37 Join Date: 3/31/23 Recent Posts
Also I think your choice of activities (talk, count, write poetry) is very non-accidental. You see what I mean emoticon 
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 4:32 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 4:32 PM

RE: Sense of no "I" (anatta?) has stabilized more, now seeking non-dual awa

Posts: 5404 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
I'm committed to having a cogent, on-topic conversation about the nature of the self as is usually described in meditation circles.
Julian Wirt, modified 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 4:34 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 4:34 PM

RE: Sense of no "I" (anatta?) has stabilized more, now seeking non-dual awa

Posts: 37 Join Date: 3/31/23 Recent Posts
Well, it is certainly a sequential process. I've read that in Daniel's book!
Tai An Zhou Zhou, modified 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 4:40 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 4:40 PM

RE: Sense of no "I" (anatta?) has stabilized more, now seeking non-dual awa

Posts: 36 Join Date: 6/24/23 Recent Posts
I'm more interested in further progress and not intellectual discussion, as fascinating as it may be (unless it leads to further progress) 
thumbnail
Chris M, modified 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 4:41 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 4:41 PM

RE: Sense of no "I" (anatta?) has stabilized more, now seeking non-dual awa

Posts: 5404 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
I'm more interested in further progress and not intellectual discussion...

Well said, and I agree. Thank you.
Julian Wirt, modified 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 4:49 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 4:48 PM

RE: Sense of no "I" (anatta?) has stabilized more, now seeking non-dual awa

Posts: 37 Join Date: 3/31/23 Recent Posts
Okay, sorry for derailing. It's just that I disagreed with that comment; I think it is possible to have a completely automated self, in the sense of 'Zen master always reacts perfectly to every situation without a moment's thought'. But my gut feeling always was that you would achieve this not by specifically targeting it, for logical reasons -- the topic of discussion tends to be prominent even if the discussion is about getting rid of it. But you are both probably more advanced than me, and I'm sorry.
Tai An Zhou Zhou, modified 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 5:50 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 7/13/23 5:50 PM

RE: Sense of no "I" (anatta?) has stabilized more, now seeking non-dual awa

Posts: 36 Join Date: 6/24/23 Recent Posts
As my ego and self recede, I'm more aware of being guided by a higher intelligence, but I have to be very present. 

Breadcrumb