I was watching this video by Ken Wilbur on "I am" pointing out instructions https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kmrh3OaHnQs
And when I did it, it had the feel of Jhana 7, Nothingness, as in removing all objects and just focusing on the subject.
Then letting go of the subject and object to go into non-duality and hanging out there seems to be like Jhana 8.
Is that how people experience 7 and 8?

On the other hand, doing the pointing out and "looking at your face before you were born" seems to skip the step of J8 altogether so it feels like a different route that is more similar to Shinzen's noting gone.

Have you already experienced the 1st through 6th jhanas?

Probably? I'll never know for sure if my qualia matches a textual description. I'll do a sit and experience things and go oh hey this experience feels like that description on some map. Whether if it's the same exact qualia the author experienced I'll proably won't know. I've also had a couple teachers do jhana tours they don't seem to judge oh did you feel an authenthic jhana 1-6 but somehow could follow along. I guess they can feel the vibes?

I think it's possible to be sure. How well does your experience of what might have been the 1st jhana match the descriptions of it?

A notable feature of the formless jhanas is the lack of sense-door input, which is to say, no bodily sensations, sounds, images, thoughts, etc.

Pretty good match, they feel like that whole simile of the oasis and lotus in a pond and all that. On the other hand it also simulatenously feels like the Tibetan elemental dissolution map of earth -> water -> fire -> air -> space, or the fire kasina map of door 1-4, so who knows?

Hm, I'm not aware of those descriptions of jhana. How well did your experience match this description: "rapture and non-sensual pleasure filling your body."

You mean the piti of the first jhana? Pretty good, it was suprising to experience a pleasure with no source the first time. I had to google it to find out it was piti. I'm not into attainments, so I have no need to gauge if my experience was authentic or not, it doesn't matter that much to me, I have no vested interest in it sotierologically. I'm more interested in how people experience these different states of mind rather than being super precise about milestones. To me it's just a passing feature on a road I'm exploring. So I am interested in how other people view these landmarks the same way I'd ask someone about the Grand Canyon - what did you like about it, how did it appear to you?

As for I AM, in the past many in DhO and KFD have correlated the state with Jhana 6, though a tiny few pointed to a deeper version of it. In John Tan's crew, they point to different vectors of the phenomenological experience of the state (impersonality, luminosity, effortlessness) that may deepen the state, yet they make a distinction between "experience" and "realization" (which is closer to insight in DhO lingo). They find Daniel Ingram's 3rd Pure Land Jhana (**) as a nice description of I AM experience. And something similar to Daniel's and Kenneth Folk's No Dog.  Bottom Line: Insight in I AM happens past 8th Jhana, just as SE.
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Yes, thank for the references! I also came to the conclusion that it didn't feel complete and was an intermediate jhana like J7, looking for the no thingness.

You're welcome Hector. Just a couple of clarifications. I wrote above "3rd Pure Land Jhana", though that doesn't mean a progression, just one of the few states that happen post 8th Jhana. Daniel was careful enough not to mix I AM with the other compound jhanas. MCTB1 adds a little more than MCTB2 in this topic. The other  thing is that No Dog is I AM indeed, though AtR guys like to differentiate experience and realization. (But you can't "realize" I AM if you already have a solid insight into No-Self.) You can check Kenneth and other oldtimers descriptions in this thread.

That thread is useful, I wonder why we don't seem to have that kind of discussion much anymore, where did all the old timers go?

​​​​​​So no dog is I AM and probably simplest thing is doing the via negativa on I AM as well?

No Dog is not I AM

Kenneth is right that No Dog is something available way before 4th path and one can and even should practice it.
That said Daniel is also right saying it is only available after 4th path - this only makes sense considering what the issue is and how technically this all plays out in the brain.

Analogy of the difference between No Dog before 4th path and after might be like being on a ship anchored in harbor vs actually being on solid land.
One has more chances and it is easier to get to solid land when not deep at sea. Denel in this analogy just likes crashing and breaking his vehicles so he did it in this style, skipping whole harbor stage ;)

I AM refers to something else - though what the guys who actively develop it obviously didn't figure out yet. Waiting for their 8th stage - should be something refreshing and 'stable' for a change. Though I wouldn't expect them to stop mumbling about emptiness - once you take simple concept and make it in to this chasing dragon experience it is hard to drop it.
 

Is the chasing dragon experience you mention the loop between low jhana to high and back? Like physical to transcendent and back is chasing dragon?

I meant it in general way. Expression chasing the dragon has specific meaning but can be used to refer to chasing experience which is supposed  to lead to realization of some kind of ultimate Truth with captal T like people like to often do. Person will likely feel it is possible to get this ultimate Truth if they are told beforehand this will happen. Even if this message is only their wrong interpretation if they believe this is the case then it will add components to the experience making it feel like it will lead to ultimate Truth.

There is something like experience of emptiness but in the same way each concept or thought can be made in to experience. Then trying to get some kind of essence that is ultimate Truth out of it is like totally not understanding what Buddha meant by emptiness... don't you agree?

As for jhanas - since Buddha said jhanas are not path leading to liberation less people specifically try to get ultimate Truth from jhanas. Otherwise in the past it was popular experience for this purpose.

Yes I think so. If I understand you correctly chasing the dragon is doing something but accessing nothing is the other way of not doing.