Has anyone here used exclusively Rob Burbea's methods for insight practice?

jhanic ceramic, modified 7 Months ago at 9/5/23 1:41 PM
Created 7 Months ago at 9/5/23 1:31 PM

Has anyone here used exclusively Rob Burbea's methods for insight practice?

Posts: 40 Join Date: 7/25/23 Recent Posts
I'm curious about people's thoughts here. I've posted about my practice history elsewhere but for the majority of my practice career, for better or for worse (mostly better I hope emoticon ) I've practiced using Rob's techniques. 

Rather than noting sensations using bare attention which is what the majority of insight meditation appears to espouse as the primary meditative technique, with insight emerging as a result of of noting, Rob focuses on adopting a stance to phenomenal experience. Viewing a phenomena that appear in consciousness as one of the three characteristics is the most common one. For example, rather than note sounds when you notice them, you take a stance of deliberately viewing the sound as not me/not min (anatta way of looking/stance), or notice its impermanence (anicca way of looking/stance), or drop contraction around it (dukkha way of looking/stance). One also employs a subtle sense of the body to gauge whether practice is opening towards liberation, or a fading of perception by sensing the relief that comes from reducing clinging, craving or aversion. The main thrust of practice is to grok emptiness and dependent orgination (in both its linear and non-linear forms).

I've found this to be a really lovely way to practice and it's lead me to have some fairly deep meditations. They don't really "map" to anything on the PoI or what I've seen in MCTB. At times when meditation gets particularly deep, fear or other types of aversion can arise, but rather than hone in on the fear I can expand the awareness to include a sense of the loveliness that can be inherent in fading or the lessening of clinging.

Some examples of this fading business from my own practice I can describe come in the area of sound and pain. After some samadhi has been established, I can take a sound that sustains (like a fridge humming or AC blowing), deliberately sustain attention on it, reduce the felt-sense of contraction (dukkha way of looking) that comes from hearing the sound (but maintaining attention) and gradually the perception of the sound begins to fade. If I stop using the meditative technique, the sound comes back. Another example is using some sense of pain - I can take a pain in my knee, rather than noting the pain, I can root out the aversion in my energy body, sustain a way of looking (anatta or dukkha) on the aversion itself (not the vedana or the bare sensate experience of the pain), and the pain begins to fade. Essentially, rather than waiting for an insight of dependent origination to emerge from using bare attention, I can use these ways of looking and watch phenomena become more or less prominent in attention and notice dependent origination directly from relaxing various links within the chain.  

I know there are many people who like Rob's teaching here, but even then the majority of people practice using other insight techniques, or have adopted Rob's techniques after stream-entry. I'm curious if there are any here who have taken Rob's techniques all the way to stream-entry. This avenue of practice feels incredibly rich to me, but from what I can tell there are a very tiny number of people who practice this way which has me feeling a bit lonely at times. 
David M, modified 7 Months ago at 9/6/23 7:15 AM
Created 7 Months ago at 9/6/23 7:10 AM

RE: Has anyone here used exclusively Rob Burbea's methods for insight pract

Posts: 38 Join Date: 8/10/23 Recent Posts
I found a lengthy review of Rob Burbea's Seeing That Frees (STF) that compares it to Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha and The Mind Illuminated (TMI). I paraphrased some quotes I found interesting;
MCTB is indispensable background reading on "the path". It clarifies the things that really matter and the kind of work that needs to be done.
MCTB provides descriptions of the Progress of Insight map, which everyone venturing into this domain should know by heart. If you care about your practice you should read it.
STF deals in depth with more advanced issues, and the refinements of practice that are needed to fully grasp them. 
The approach to insight is very different from other sources. It bears little resemblance to "vipassanā practice" like mindfulness or noting.
STF assumes that you already have foundations in place and a history of committed practice to draw upon.
It's like a big, beautiful ball of yarn, with threads woven of wondrous and unfathomable colors too numerous to count.
TMI deals almost exclusively with śamatha, with little to say about the Progress of Insight.
It is entirely self-contained and suitable for complete beginners.
If you've spent some time at TMI Stages Seven or Eight and are looking for a framework for insight investigation, STF is recommended.

https://www.reddit.com/r/streamentry/comments/55vryt/insight_rob_burbea_seeing_that_frees/
jhanic ceramic, modified 7 Months ago at 9/6/23 3:25 PM
Created 7 Months ago at 9/6/23 3:25 PM

RE: Has anyone here used exclusively Rob Burbea's methods for insight pract

Posts: 40 Join Date: 7/25/23 Recent Posts
Thanks David. I think I'm at about TMI Stage 6-8 in my samatha practice on most days but have never done noting practice seriously and never really enjoyed it. It always felt a little dry and kind of boring to me.

I actually think that this post is what inspired me to buy the book. I love it to death and it's by far my most read book. 
David M, modified 7 Months ago at 9/7/23 7:38 PM
Created 7 Months ago at 9/7/23 12:06 PM

RE: Has anyone here used exclusively Rob Burbea's methods for insight pract

Posts: 38 Join Date: 8/10/23 Recent Posts
I like Rob's Jhana talks.

In the Third Jhana talk Rob Burbea discusses Nissaraṇa, but he does not in STF. I was wondering if anyone had any thoughts about this paraphrased quote:

The Buddha describes each jhāna as an ‘escape.’ Nissaraṇa is the Pali. This lovely, gorgeous realm of peacefulness.

Escape from the non-peacefulness that characterizes the world. 

Escape from the non-sukha that characterizes the body as it’s usually experienced, and the mind as it’s usually experienced, and the world as it’s usually experienced.

Each jhāna is a step of further escape. It paves the way for the total escape of the arahant, not to be reborn into this world. 

​​​​​​​I’ve been very sick and in a lot of pain, and just to be able to go into a realm where there’s none of that, there’s no discomfort. It’s really a blessing, really a gift.
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Dream Walker, modified 7 Months ago at 9/7/23 2:53 PM
Created 7 Months ago at 9/7/23 2:53 PM

RE: Has anyone here used exclusively Rob Burbea's methods for insight pract

Posts: 1693 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
Reread MCTB....
You missed a lot.
Good luck,
​​​​​​​~D
David M, modified 7 Months ago at 9/7/23 4:03 PM
Created 7 Months ago at 9/7/23 4:03 PM

RE: Has anyone here used exclusively Rob Burbea's methods for insight pract

Posts: 38 Join Date: 8/10/23 Recent Posts
Oh you mean like page 285?

​​​​​​​"Dry insight workers have an unfortunate tendency to become uptight, irascible, emotionally brittle, and occasionally insufferable to be around, as if they were on speed or having a bad acid trip."
Edward, modified 7 Months ago at 9/8/23 12:30 AM
Created 7 Months ago at 9/8/23 12:30 AM

RE: Has anyone here used exclusively Rob Burbea's methods for insight pract

Posts: 129 Join Date: 6/10/19 Recent Posts
David M
Oh you mean like page 285?

​​​​​​​"Dry insight workers have an unfortunate tendency to become uptight, irascible, emotionally brittle, and occasionally insufferable to be around, as if they were on speed or having a bad acid trip."

LOL
David M, modified 7 Months ago at 9/10/23 8:02 AM
Created 7 Months ago at 9/8/23 12:11 PM

RE: Has anyone here used exclusively Rob Burbea's methods for insight pract

Posts: 38 Join Date: 8/10/23 Recent Posts
Shargrol's book recommendations include Rob Burbea's STF.
​​​​​​​
Maybe Rob's Jhana talks aren't so popular with folks in this forum? Many people love them.

I know that Daniel Ingram warns about "jhana junkies" in his book, but Daniel also recommends Leigh Brasington's and Ajahn Brahm's books. Both of these authors argue that you cannot be attached to jhanas.

Is jhana "escape", as Rob says, too much?

​​​​​​​To put his words in context, he was battling terminal cancer when he taught the Jhana retreat. Is that why he needed an escape?

​​​​​​​thanks 
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Chris M, modified 7 Months ago at 9/22/23 11:59 AM
Created 7 Months ago at 9/22/23 11:58 AM

RE: Has anyone here used exclusively Rob Burbea's methods for insight pract

Posts: 5182 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
There's a new Rob Burbea LLM (large language model) AI up and running. It's called "BurbeaGPT":

https://burbea.louis02x.com/
Eric Abrahamsen, modified 7 Months ago at 9/22/23 12:47 PM
Created 7 Months ago at 9/22/23 12:47 PM

RE: Has anyone here used exclusively Rob Burbea's methods for insight pract

Posts: 67 Join Date: 6/9/21 Recent Posts
Chris M:
There's a new Rob Burbea LLM (large language model) AI up and running. It's called "BurbeaGPT": https://burbea.louis02x.com/


Wow. It's hard to know what to think about this, particularly since the man died not too long ago. The placeholder text in the input box says "Ask Rob Burbea a question..." which seems to border on the macabre, but at least the responses come framed in "As Rob said.... - Rob Burbea", which makes it sound a little less like you're talking to a ghost. Still, it's pretty weird.
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Chris M, modified 7 Months ago at 9/22/23 1:01 PM
Created 7 Months ago at 9/22/23 1:01 PM

RE: Has anyone here used exclusively Rob Burbea's methods for insight pract

Posts: 5182 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
We'll need to get used to this kind of thing. AI is not going away, and I expect it'll be used for even more weird things, like imitating people who are still alive - for both ethical and unethical or illegal purposes.

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