I don't know why but i have the clear impression that there are some people here who have learned about spiritual bypassing and are so afraid to be caught in it that they go overboard and go into "spiritual aggressiveness".

Calling others "stupid" or "drunk" or just "babbling toddlers" seems to fit the bill for them. They don't seem to see the agressive energy in thess words, that they are not compassionate, that they are not helpful... all that is no problem because at least they are not "spiritual bypassing", God forbid.

Or is this a cultural thing? Or am i simply afraid of conflict because my parents called each other names when i was young and ended up divorced?

Am i alone here to feel this way?

I think you're reading way too deeply into passing comments. 

As has already been stated by myself and others. This is primarily a place for people to share the day to day experience of their meditation practice.

There are already a number of threads that you have started in which people are trying to discuss that with you or trying to figure out what it is you've actually come here to discuss. 

I don't believe the issue is cultural. I get the impression that you are afraid to reveal your vulnerability. That is the direction that every other thread you have started here was going and yet here you are making another one to vaguely accuse people you barely know of being spiritually aggressive. 

You seem to communicate that you do not suffer, that you like things how they are yet you are also quite reactive in how you communicate. There is a dissonance there. I think you should continue to speak to the people who have taken time to speak with you in the threads you have already started and I think you should read some of the practice logs to get an idea of why people are here. 

​​​​​​​

Bahiya,

Thank you for taking the time to talk with me. It's much appreciated, really.
I have expressed elsewhere how much I am grateful for this place. I've been a silent or almost silent reader for many years.

I am that i am posting much more these days. This is because I am really excited about how a lot of loose threads are being pulling together, recently.

However if I have implied that I do not suffer,  I must have been very clumsy or you have been reading too much in what I wrote and made inferences of your own.

I have stated elsewhere that I have no claim to any of the attainments i see claimed here. It's not modesty.  I  am sure of only one thing I probably crossed what Daniel calls the A&P a long time ago.  Spontaneously.

Looking at it & trying to understand where your inference comes from i can see that it probably comes from my affirmation that "Clear Cognizance is ok with everything ". I do think that that's a correct statement. It nevertheless doesn't mean that I am ok with everything & therefore don't suffer. 

You are not alone. I agree with you. 

I don't know if it is spiritual bypassing, online disinhibition, or what the cause is but I don't think the disrespectful comments are helpful or appropriate. 

It is hard to understand the personal nuances in written text when you can't hear the tone voice or see the facial expressions. Smiley faces aren't a good solution because you can't tell if they are intended to be friendly or to laugh at you. Being extra polite, to show friendliness can seem patronizing or like sarcasm and convey the opposite of the intended meaning. I would think most people would understand this and avoid comments that can be misinterpreted and that the moderators would explain the problem to people who don't get it. 

People come to the forum for information and those types of comments just clutter up the threads making it hard for people to find the information that will help them. 

And they discourage some people from posting and asking for help, so I think it is a real problem.

However, a forum needs a certain amount of activity or people will not participate. So supposing the moderators wanted to eliminate those types of comments, it could kill the forum. Unfortunately the people who have nothing useful to say are actually playing a role in keeping the forum alive.  

I think a good solution to the problem would be to have an ignore or block user function for the forum software. I think it is not used because the management thinks we should all get along. I think that is life-denying idealism. I don't see it as a question of getting along, I see it as a issue of how to filter the posts to get what you are interested in.  There are some people who's posts I never read because they never say anything interesting, or they are just unpleasant and I don't want to let them into my home and private space through my computer. I also know there are people who don't like what I write and I wish they could block my posts to improve their experience too.

 I also agree that you have a good understanding of the A&P. AND not THEN. 

From my point of view. Having read the threads you started. I actually think a number of people have gone out of their way to give detailed and considerate responses. I don't think any aggression was intended. 
 

I haven't seen any aggressiveness in any recent posts either. And I'm usually pretty sensitive to that kind of stuff.

It might be helpful with examples.

Can you link to those aggressive comments? Was I one of those? If so I do apologise as it was not my intent to be aggressive. I can be unpleasantly direct but not aggressive I hope. 

As for this forum I think it's awesome! With all its bitter-sweetness  

It's ok you feel that way. It will pass. All stuff does. 

My parents used to insult each other I front of us kids. Now my wife and I insult each other I front of our kids. 
It's a curse.

Maybe meditation can't help with all the fucked up reactivity? 

Therapy, coaching, massage, spa, ice baths, whiskey tasting ... what know I Mountain climbing, bungee jumping, sky diving, deep sea diving, knitting, gardening, beekeeping ... 

Since the topic of posting behavior has come up in this topic, let me clarify some things:

Below, in this post, I will paste the rules under which we all participate on DhO. If anyone feels these rules have been violated, or if they feel that they are being attacked, they should contact me, the only currently active moderator here, using the messaging system (use this link:  https://www.dharmaoverground.org/messages2).

The rules from the DhO Home Page:
​​​​​​​

I read every post made here and I haven't seen any comments that would violate DhO's rules in quite some time. If it does happen, I won't hesitate to deal with it. What I do have to do, almost daily, is remove spam.

Lastly, there is no "block user" function available here. It's not included as part of the underlying software that drives this forum, called "LifeRay." 

Imagine an option called 'Block Dukkha"  

You mean whiskey :-) 

Whiskey leads to an immediate cessation of Dukkha ... unless you overdo it! In which case Dukkha gets multiplied by 100!!!  

This thread is dry!

Vaseline?

We're not normally this drunk I swear !!

Just drinking it in I guess 

No, 
​​​​​​​it's just fine, being dry!

Drinking it?
Vaseline? 

Hi
Really?
clear without knowing why....hmmm...ok
There are people here, yes, vague. 
however you are defining "spiritual bypassing"
I do not agree to your supposition
​​​​​​​I do not agree to your supposition
​​​​​​​I do not agree to your supposition

Without examples ​​​​​​​I do not agree to your supposition
​​​​​​​I do not agree to your supposition
​​​​​​​I do not agree to your supposition
​​​​​​​I do not agree to your supposition
​​​​​​​I do not agree to your supposition

Without examples ​​​​​​​I do not agree to your supposition
no idea


I do hope you feel ok with my reply. It is not my intent to aggressive, name calling nor bypassing in any way, but if you just put out claims/suppositions without examples it is hard to agree or not. If it is about your feelings then please feel free to feel however you wish.
I do my best to break down posts and respond to each part, especially when there is a lot to unpack. I hope feedback and deep mutually respected conversation about meditation is everyones goal here, but that is only my hope.

Good Luck,
~D

Dreamwalker,
Hi,

Quoting you " if you just put out claims/suppositions without examples it is hard to agree or not." Yet you managed to disagree with "my suppositions" no less than nine times in your post.

Just wondering.

Hi

Yes, It is up to the initial poster to posit something or not.
exactly, I disagreed with your posits based off of vague, unsupportable "stuff" (to be vague)
My opinion, is to disagree with what you proclaim, thus to disbelieve even more claims based of earlier un-substantiated claims. (my opinion)

I too wonder what you were wondering or not wondering about. That is why I bothered to reply in the first place, hopeing for clarification in some such way that I might have an opportunity to help in some way.
Good Luck,
​​​​​​​~D

I was wondering how come you said "it's hard to agree or NOT", yet you managed to disagree nine times, and not agree once. What is the logic here? It didn't seem that HARD for you to disagree all the time while claiming that "it's HARD to agree or not".
I am not talking about the substance of what I wrote or your opinion of it. I am questioning your logic although dreams defy logic.

thank you for bothering to reply & most certainly for wanting to be of help.
much appreciated.

Hi Todo

I appreciate our ability to have the freedom to agree or disagree to whatever we wish here.
I wish you the best.
~D

Dream Walker, 

for the record, I didn't question your freedom to agree or disagree. 

Emulating your habit of quoting posts,

Quoting You:
"I appreciate our ability to have the freedom to agree or disagree to whatever we wish here."

Quoting myself:
" I am not talking about the substance of what I wrote or your opinion of it. I am questioning your logic although dreams defy logic."

I agree with you completely Todo, we all can question each others logic as we wish. Dreams can definitely defy logic as the case may be.
Thank you for your insightfulness.
I apoligize if my style of response has upset you in any way.
I will try to do better in the future.
​​​​​​​~D

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dhamma/sacca/sacca4/samma-vaca/index.html

Simpler modern version: be nice to each other.

Seems to me it took the Buddhist sutra many, many words to say, in effect, "He who lives in a glass house shouldn't throw stones."  

I have few ways to deal with spiritual aggressiveness aimed toward me.

One is to still freeze with 8th jhana - at least my version of it. Especially useful when dealing with fast movement or the kind of energies which always seems to find a way to avoid being caught. Once stilled there is a chance to apply fixes.

Other way and actually what typically use is just opening portal to outside this universe and let all energies be sucked in to it. The kind of energy I loose I don't need and remove from myself anyways. This method can be modified to be more specific if there would be any objections to wide-band one or if its useful for whatever reason to be more specific. Its the method I tend to use the most ever since I learned I can do like that.

At times just saying clearly you aren't in a mood to play is enough. That works more when dealing not so much with ill will and real aggression but when given presence makes you unpleasant and in fact you don't feel like dealing with it. It is however good to not take first impressions and try to at least asses what is that came. Sometimes it can be something good... I mean why do we even do it anyways...

Otherwise my main method in the past was just using various barriers. Those intended to dissuade attacker with unpleasantness were total failure. It is best to use pleasure in clever ways.

Then there is the so called "invisibility bug" which can be used . It is impossible to enter stream while using it so it is impossible to just use it all the time not to mention it cannot really resolve any issue. It and variations of it can be used in a pinch though.

If all that fails I know of few ways how to deal with stuff but maybe nothing to write about here. (...like what I already wrote isn't crazy enough...)

BTW. I guess some people wrote books about this stuff. Personally I would not and did not read anything about it because even more than dharma books they must be packed by nonsense energies to work through which I don't really care about. Some people like it like that though. From what I understand our local overlord Daniel is one of the people who know a thing or two about pragmatic spirituality ;)


Not sure what it is... Can you eat it?
I know! It tastes like vanilla!!!1

There is another, simple approach, as well, which is that of not taking possession of the aggression. 

https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/sn/sn07/sn07.002.than.html

​​​​​​​Yes! Or, alternately, as my late, Soto Zen teacher Jana Drakka would say, "Does it make you kind?". If there isn't kindness and recognition of suffering (compassion), then there isn't enlightened mind and it's time to look for better dharma. _/\_