Insight about the experience of insights - Discussion
I've read Nagarjuna. It's fascinating stuff that's a nice combination of meditative insight, philosophy and logic. But... objects do exist, as impermanent, not me, and unsatisfactory as they may be. I guess I have the unfortunate luck to live in the world that includes pain when I accidentally hit myself with a hammer.
Objects DO exist in their way - they have PROVISIONAL existence. However, their deeper reality is that they are ultimately empty, having no intrinsic (self) existence. Both qualities can be seen at the same time. Is that unsatisfactory?
I'm still in a questioning mood this morning, Sterling, so... what is deeper reality? I think that's just as empty as common reality
Chris M
I'm still in a questioning mood this morning, Sterling, so... what is deeper reality? I think that's just as empty as common reality
Objects DO exist in their way - they have PROVISIONAL existence. However, their deeper reality is that they are ultimately empty, having no intrinsic (self) existence. Both qualities can be seen at the same time. Is that unsatisfactory?
I'm still in a questioning mood this morning, Sterling, so... what is deeper reality? I think that's just as empty as common reality
Ha ha. That's the trouble with explaining things or defining things other than verbally one on one. What can you say about something that is not conceptual in any way?
like Jim Newman says "people tell me I should write a book, but 'this is IT, and it's nothing else' would be a pretty short book."
Chris M
I'm still in a questioning mood this morning, Sterling, so... what is deeper reality? I think that's just as empty as common reality
Objects DO exist in their way - they have PROVISIONAL existence. However, their deeper reality is that they are ultimately empty, having no intrinsic (self) existence. Both qualities can be seen at the same time. Is that unsatisfactory?
I'm still in a questioning mood this morning, Sterling, so... what is deeper reality? I think that's just as empty as common reality
Good morning, Chris. I think you know what I am saying, but you can choose the terminology if you want... I'm OK with that. Yes, reality IS empty. The "Two Truths" are ultimately empty... and yet, here we are talking about them. If we talk about lemons (or hammers) it is the same. Since I don't have any here to hand, they are purely conceptual in this moment.
We see a world of impermanent things moment to moment, but MY experience is that there is something that can be apprehended that isn't impermanent, dependently originated and has been there all along "underneath" (for lack of a better word) that impermanence. I can see both in this moment, on constantly changing, the other still, silent, and luminous. So, yes, conceptually, two truths.
I'm still in a questioning mood too, Chris. Still curious to hear your thoughts.
Edited to add: I mentioned Madhyamaka, Vajrayana, and Mahamudra because your comments on Nagarjuna's contributions to Buddhism appeared dismissive. The Mulamadhyamakakarika, written by Nagarjuna, is a critically important cornerstone of the three.
We see a world of impermanent things moment to moment, but MY experience is that there is something that can be apprehended that isn't impermanent, dependently originated and has been there all along "underneath" (for lack of a better word) that impermanence. I can see both in this moment, on constantly changing, the other still, silent, and luminous. So, yes, conceptually, two truths.
Solid Self?
Dream Walker
Did you do Goenka? What is body scanning to you if not?
Sooo... while body scanning, you didn't label it? What is 'noting" mean to you?
By noting I mean making an internally verbal label for any sensestion I become aware of. I generally don't note and body scan at the same time. Of course I'm still aware of many sensations while scanning, but I don't make that internally verbal note.
I've been playing around with it. Sometimes I'll label in very general categories such as Shinzen Young's "touch, feel, image, talk", while other times I'll try to be super specific, or focus only on one category of sensation at the exclusion of all else.
What does insight mean? are you not using the Progress of Insight stages?
By insight I mean a new or deeper understanding of the nature of immediate subjective experience. I'm familiar with progress of insight stages (via MCT
but generally don't try to map my experiences with that model as I feel it's more productive for me at this time to just focus on immediate experience, and stages will develop organically as they may. the as yet undefined 'insight' yieldied another undefined something about insight....ok...don't have a clue what your saying
This was a somewhat sloppy way of saying that by noting sensations related to my experience of understanding something new about my subjective experience (i.e. insight) I then understood something new about the experience of insight. Maybe it could be seen as a "meta-insight".
New meditators hear stories about crazy outlandish experiences others have had while meditating, and it's easy to lose sight of the fact that insight is as applicable to simple mundane things (like an itch) as it is to some world-shatterintg A&P experience.
What pray tell are you doing that suggests that you are doing 'noting'? I am currently noting you noting that I note of noting notes.
With regards to the itch, I was essentially labeling as many sensations related to the itch as I can find, to include feeling such as adversion. I was also noticing where each of these sensations appeared within my sensory field. The insight above came when I noticed the physical sensations of the itch and the related aversion were all sharing the same space within that field.
CLINGING and AVERSION feeling tones.....woot! we are kinda getting somewhere. notice NEUTRAL also.
Thats good advice. I've been leaving neutral out of it.
1. Notice sensation 2. Label sensation 3. Notice feeling tone or 4. Notice feeling of ME, Perm, Satisfying......solidity 5. Mix it up
ah, mix it up! so go for say "tone" first, then trace that back to a sensation?
NICE....did that last? Is that yours? does it satisfy?Are you clinging to it? or is it neutral? doesn't sound to aversive.
Hellz ya.....clearly that way til it isn't. I agree though, clarity and understanding fuels my joy of exploration. It makes all the little things add up to the big stuff. Keep on doing it. Good Luck, ~D
Thanks, I'll keep trying to notice this insight and maybe will come to see some other aspect of it.
Do you want to grok the dharma? Stay right here.
Yes! Except, most people on this board are right here instead, reducing their understanding to right/wrong, concepts, and other dualities, including you, I, and a number of other posters that suggest that they ALSO get this. I agree with you wholeheartedly on this point, and spend months at a time forgetting this place exists, and then there is some afternoon a particular itch to see what all of the familiar people (that are left) are up to and here I am again.
If there is even a trace
of this and that, of right and wrong,
the Mind-essence will be lost in confusion.
- From Verses on the Faith Mind by Chien-chih Seng-ts'an
of this and that, of right and wrong,
the Mind-essence will be lost in confusion.
- From Verses on the Faith Mind by Chien-chih Seng-ts'an
This idea that there is a "right" answer to some of these dharma questions is a place we have all gotten lost. Are there ultimately "two truths"? Absolutely not. But like many of these constructs, it is a (IMHO) clear, tested, and convenient way to point to what is happening here. It is as valid as any other story you want to tell about it, but closer than many to how it looks TO ME. On the TWIM thread there will no-doubt be arguments about what is "pure" dharma, or what is valid or invalid. A shame really.
If there is a problem, IMHO, isn't in trying to discuss dharma, or in refining our ways of failing to properly capture it, but in being KIND to those who are trying to share their experience, or try to understand. Sometimes that seems to fall by the wayside here, and the result is that people aren't helped, and eventually go elsewhere or give up entirely. Above even the wish to educate I think kindness and humility, are really what should come first. This is THE primary quality I have noticed to be present in the most accomplished and realized teachers I have encountered, in my experience anyway, and at this point, my primary aspiration.
Anyway, thank you for your post Chris, it is better than the other ones you might have composed and discarded.
I agree with your exhortation wholeheartedly! Respectful bows, to you, sir.
Stirling Campbell
Yes! Except, most people on this board are right here instead, reducing their understanding to right/wrong, concepts, and other dualities, including you, I, and a number of other posters that suggest that they ALSO get this. I agree with you wholeheartedly on this point, and spend months at a time forgetting this place exists, and then there is some afternoon a particular itch to see what all of the familiar people (that are left) are up to and here I am again.
This idea that there is a "right" answer to some of these dharma questions is a place we have all gotten lost. Are there ultimately "two truths"? Absolutely not. But like many of these constructs, it is a (IMHO) clear, tested, and convenient way to point to what is happening here. It is as valid as any other story you want to tell about it, but closer than many to how it looks TO ME. On the TWIM thread there will no-doubt be arguments about what is "pure" dharma, or what is valid or invalid. A shame really.
If there is a problem, IMHO, isn't in trying to discuss dharma, or in refining our ways of failing to properly capture it, but in being KIND to those who are trying to share their experience, or try to understand. Sometimes that seems to fall by the wayside here, and the result is that people aren't helped, and eventually go elsewhere or give up entirely. Above even the wish to educate I think kindness and humility, are really what should come first. This is THE primary quality I have noticed to be present in the most accomplished and realized teachers I have encountered, in my experience anyway, and at this point, my primary aspiration.
Anyway, thank you for your post Chris, it is better than the other ones you might have composed and discarded. I agree with your exhortation wholeheartedly! Respectful bows, to you, sir.
Do you want to grok the dharma? Stay right here.
Yes! Except, most people on this board are right here instead, reducing their understanding to right/wrong, concepts, and other dualities, including you, I, and a number of other posters that suggest that they ALSO get this. I agree with you wholeheartedly on this point, and spend months at a time forgetting this place exists, and then there is some afternoon a particular itch to see what all of the familiar people (that are left) are up to and here I am again.
If there is even a trace
of this and that, of right and wrong,
the Mind-essence will be lost in confusion.
- From Verses on the Faith Mind by Chien-chih Seng-ts'an
of this and that, of right and wrong,
the Mind-essence will be lost in confusion.
- From Verses on the Faith Mind by Chien-chih Seng-ts'an
This idea that there is a "right" answer to some of these dharma questions is a place we have all gotten lost. Are there ultimately "two truths"? Absolutely not. But like many of these constructs, it is a (IMHO) clear, tested, and convenient way to point to what is happening here. It is as valid as any other story you want to tell about it, but closer than many to how it looks TO ME. On the TWIM thread there will no-doubt be arguments about what is "pure" dharma, or what is valid or invalid. A shame really.
If there is a problem, IMHO, isn't in trying to discuss dharma, or in refining our ways of failing to properly capture it, but in being KIND to those who are trying to share their experience, or try to understand. Sometimes that seems to fall by the wayside here, and the result is that people aren't helped, and eventually go elsewhere or give up entirely. Above even the wish to educate I think kindness and humility, are really what should come first. This is THE primary quality I have noticed to be present in the most accomplished and realized teachers I have encountered, in my experience anyway, and at this point, my primary aspiration.
Anyway, thank you for your post Chris, it is better than the other ones you might have composed and discarded.
I agree with your exhortation wholeheartedly! Respectful bows, to you, sir. +1
and you, sir stir
brian patrick
I haven’t thought all this stuff through entirely, but some of the exchanges here brought that to mind. Anybody stumbling into this place not primed for what’s going on would probably not understand any of it, or just think it’s a bunch of religious Buddhists talking shop. That’s what I would have thought before the “switch flipped” — leaving aside Ni Nurta’s assertion that there is no actual switch.
I haven’t thought all this stuff through entirely, but some of the exchanges here brought that to mind. Anybody stumbling into this place not primed for what’s going on would probably not understand any of it, or just think it’s a bunch of religious Buddhists talking shop. That’s what I would have thought before the “switch flipped” — leaving aside Ni Nurta’s assertion that there is no actual switch.
You mean it like 4th path?
Many years ago it was more sensational when someone claimed 4th path. Now ts kinda day like everyday on DhO and its hard to even tell who claimed what, especially when visiting this site only from time to time.
Too bad we don't have sigs on DhO or even better: self-proclaimed path level under avatar
Ni Nurta
You mean it like 4th path?
Many years ago it was more sensational when someone claimed 4th path. Now ts kinda day like everyday on DhO and its hard to even tell who claimed what, especially when visiting this site only from time to time.
Too bad we don't have sigs on DhO or even better: self-proclaimed path level under avatar
brian patrick
I haven’t thought all this stuff through entirely, but some of the exchanges here brought that to mind. Anybody stumbling into this place not primed for what’s going on would probably not understand any of it, or just think it’s a bunch of religious Buddhists talking shop. That’s what I would have thought before the “switch flipped” — leaving aside Ni Nurta’s assertion that there is no actual switch.
I haven’t thought all this stuff through entirely, but some of the exchanges here brought that to mind. Anybody stumbling into this place not primed for what’s going on would probably not understand any of it, or just think it’s a bunch of religious Buddhists talking shop. That’s what I would have thought before the “switch flipped” — leaving aside Ni Nurta’s assertion that there is no actual switch.
You mean it like 4th path?
Many years ago it was more sensational when someone claimed 4th path. Now ts kinda day like everyday on DhO and its hard to even tell who claimed what, especially when visiting this site only from time to time.
Too bad we don't have sigs on DhO or even better: self-proclaimed path level under avatar
I don't know what 4th path is
Ni Nurta
Actually no one can be 100% sure.
Many things give similar phenomenological descriptions its impossible to verify anything based on those.
One can guess and have seemingly solid reasoning behind the guess but it might not be anywhere close to being correct.
Then we enter all sorts of "nah, in this way we wouldn't really know what any path means/requires so we set baseline as this and that" which has similar issues. Maybe one person self-proclaims they are this and that Path and out of this select some aspects of experience - and of course not only other person might arrive at something different which given similar/same descriptions but the person setting baseline might have not gotten it fully. It has all sorts of issues.
Reassurance "it feels 'done'" or it not causing the same type of dukkha as before are very ambiguous. Feeling of any kind like feeling done, of knowing something etc. can arrive from any signal within the brain it seems so it might be whatever. For example there is some how I call them "error" experiences (that can block arising of consciousness BTW) but it can be reinterpreted to literally whatever because its itself formless experience (read it doesn't have any expression in mind) so its especially easy to mold it.
Mind is very flexible thing - it can mold itself and while basis is roughly the same and even responses are usually very similar (as indicated by how similar POI stages look even if not exposed to the model) one cannot assume anything because nothing here is tangible and unambiguous. Nothing to hang your hat on...
That is why I stress term "self-proclaimed"
My attempt to generalize 4th path is to just define it as any implementation which shifts activity within the brain faster than neurons get tired and cause experience of dukkha within mind. This isn't what even points to and doesn't require change I identify as his attainment but it is an attempt to remove this specific change out of equation. Not everyone who claim 4th path seems to have it (and especially in the same way as someone had it) and there are no reasons to believe would be necessary to have very specific set of changes within the brain/mind. Imho its usually involving certain parts of the mind but I myself experienced many different 'implementation'. In either case the way I imagine it would resolve issue of dukkha and in a sense stop cycle of rebirth of parts of mind. Shuffle some stuff about part of mind which were just used and they will never arise to be as close as they were before - how different depend on amount and type of this shuffling.
My best bet about what Daniel describe and what can be felt is shift of root of main consciousness (even it kinda sounds unambiguous - its hard to point as to what shifts...) from corpus callosum to anterior commisure with at the same time this new mind running signals through corpus callosum incompatible with its mind (previous most stable state). Shifting to previous mind will cause error signals to happen and this shift cannot be in this case accomplished. They have very specific sharp vibe to them - these errors.
Despite wanting to be as mindful/conscious about this whole thing as possible I still experienced some degree of unmindful fruition and similar locking mechanism set itself with it. I only figured it years later and not in this part of the brain/mind but somewhere where it was more obvious and could be studied more easily.
For the specific experience of "being done" would be general vibe of accomplishment + these sharp experiences.
I have also other model for this kind of experience which I pondered about based on different development - error correction. Most likely there is combination of different factors which make specific experience.
Personally I interpreted these sharp sensations as... didn't put any label other than just sharp sensations and something to be figured out. This error correction thing I specifically worked on and some of the Daniel's descriptions do suggest there might be more naturally occurring version. There is let's say condition for it working and multiple ways that I know to cause the condition to experience for of it. After all error correction or quality of vajra is naturally occurring phenomena within the brain. Normal mind has it too to comparatively very small degree.
So as can be observer I do have my models about these attainments and on rather nitty gritty details level but its still just a model. Along with how fruitions work and practices and some other stuff the picture is fairly well constructed - but it is still just a model.
And obviously genuine 4th path shouldn't at all rely on unconscious mind and how conscious person is at any given time is easy to assess being myself conscious - which in this sense is literally what Buddha called mindfulness. Such mind has jhanic quality and no issues with tired neurons and funnily enough it is one of the separate "axes of development" to anything described in MCTB book. Comparing my phenomenological descriptions of various mind configurations I can narrow range of possible developments within axes of developments which I consider mastered - which is full conscious control. And before anyone like the last time I talked about controlling things start thinking/talking about some part of the mind controlling other part of the mind: friendly reminder to be more mindful/conscious. Like much much more - then no explanation will be necessary regarding how mind can consciously control itself.
So yeah, I consider myself to have already figured a lot. Seemingly more than anyone ever said about this topic.
The only 100% certainty I have is that even if all my existing models are 100% accurate they don't cover all topics so I am not completed on path of insight. That said some or even all models might be inaccurate because mind has abilities to visualize experiences. Its hard to study something and its relations when its visualized. Might fit model but might not represent reality. That is the main issue... and also kinda obvious issue but one shouldn't assume things are unknowable because then its just being lazy. Incorrect models can always be corrected. Models which are not being made won't suddenly appear complete in someone mind. The so called "profound experiences" with some label slapped to it referring to some part of the dharma book isn't having models of mind yet. One cannot really explain anything with 'insights' alone. One could if we didn't redefine meaning of the term to mean absolutely nothing.
BTW. Myself I 'attained' 4th path about 9 years ago. I rarely use that mind but I can should I want it and it has its nice qualities. It I can say "it just works!". I guess I am like a crab, I shed my mind states all the time when I outgrow them. Years after I stumbled on idea of coherence which led to development of much better mindfulness. Still working on it but at this point I have like multiple workarounds for each occasion so its kinda not needed. The point if there is any is to grow and improve models and improve mind and get new skills and understandings. There is always "I don't get it at all" -> "This might be helpful..." -> "I get it now!" -> "figured new stuff and it seems my understanding was still incomplete" -> "this might be helpful..." -> etc. cycle of development and improvement. Of course I already knew it even at 1st path and knew that mind I developed nine years ago impermanent, has dukkha issues (even if very minor) and its not my true self - probably because all dharmas are empty.
brian patrick
I don't know what 4th path is
I don't know what 4th path is
Actually no one can be 100% sure.
Many things give similar phenomenological descriptions its impossible to verify anything based on those.
One can guess and have seemingly solid reasoning behind the guess but it might not be anywhere close to being correct.
Then we enter all sorts of "nah, in this way we wouldn't really know what any path means/requires so we set baseline as this and that" which has similar issues. Maybe one person self-proclaims they are this and that Path and out of this select some aspects of experience - and of course not only other person might arrive at something different which given similar/same descriptions but the person setting baseline might have not gotten it fully. It has all sorts of issues.
Reassurance "it feels 'done'" or it not causing the same type of dukkha as before are very ambiguous. Feeling of any kind like feeling done, of knowing something etc. can arrive from any signal within the brain it seems so it might be whatever. For example there is some how I call them "error" experiences (that can block arising of consciousness BTW) but it can be reinterpreted to literally whatever because its itself formless experience (read it doesn't have any expression in mind) so its especially easy to mold it.
Mind is very flexible thing - it can mold itself and while basis is roughly the same and even responses are usually very similar (as indicated by how similar POI stages look even if not exposed to the model) one cannot assume anything because nothing here is tangible and unambiguous. Nothing to hang your hat on...
That is why I stress term "self-proclaimed"
My attempt to generalize 4th path is to just define it as any implementation which shifts activity within the brain faster than neurons get tired and cause experience of dukkha within mind. This isn't what even points to and doesn't require change I identify as his attainment but it is an attempt to remove this specific change out of equation. Not everyone who claim 4th path seems to have it (and especially in the same way as someone had it) and there are no reasons to believe would be necessary to have very specific set of changes within the brain/mind. Imho its usually involving certain parts of the mind but I myself experienced many different 'implementation'. In either case the way I imagine it would resolve issue of dukkha and in a sense stop cycle of rebirth of parts of mind. Shuffle some stuff about part of mind which were just used and they will never arise to be as close as they were before - how different depend on amount and type of this shuffling.
My best bet about what Daniel describe and what can be felt is shift of root of main consciousness (even it kinda sounds unambiguous - its hard to point as to what shifts...) from corpus callosum to anterior commisure with at the same time this new mind running signals through corpus callosum incompatible with its mind (previous most stable state). Shifting to previous mind will cause error signals to happen and this shift cannot be in this case accomplished. They have very specific sharp vibe to them - these errors.
Despite wanting to be as mindful/conscious about this whole thing as possible I still experienced some degree of unmindful fruition and similar locking mechanism set itself with it. I only figured it years later and not in this part of the brain/mind but somewhere where it was more obvious and could be studied more easily.
For the specific experience of "being done" would be general vibe of accomplishment + these sharp experiences.
I have also other model for this kind of experience which I pondered about based on different development - error correction. Most likely there is combination of different factors which make specific experience.
Personally I interpreted these sharp sensations as... didn't put any label other than just sharp sensations and something to be figured out. This error correction thing I specifically worked on and some of the Daniel's descriptions do suggest there might be more naturally occurring version. There is let's say condition for it working and multiple ways that I know to cause the condition to experience for of it. After all error correction or quality of vajra is naturally occurring phenomena within the brain. Normal mind has it too to comparatively very small degree.
So as can be observer I do have my models about these attainments and on rather nitty gritty details level but its still just a model. Along with how fruitions work and practices and some other stuff the picture is fairly well constructed - but it is still just a model.
And obviously genuine 4th path shouldn't at all rely on unconscious mind and how conscious person is at any given time is easy to assess being myself conscious - which in this sense is literally what Buddha called mindfulness. Such mind has jhanic quality and no issues with tired neurons and funnily enough it is one of the separate "axes of development" to anything described in MCTB book. Comparing my phenomenological descriptions of various mind configurations I can narrow range of possible developments within axes of developments which I consider mastered - which is full conscious control. And before anyone like the last time I talked about controlling things start thinking/talking about some part of the mind controlling other part of the mind: friendly reminder to be more mindful/conscious. Like much much more - then no explanation will be necessary regarding how mind can consciously control itself.
So yeah, I consider myself to have already figured a lot. Seemingly more than anyone ever said about this topic.
The only 100% certainty I have is that even if all my existing models are 100% accurate they don't cover all topics so I am not completed on path of insight. That said some or even all models might be inaccurate because mind has abilities to visualize experiences. Its hard to study something and its relations when its visualized. Might fit model but might not represent reality. That is the main issue... and also kinda obvious issue but one shouldn't assume things are unknowable because then its just being lazy. Incorrect models can always be corrected. Models which are not being made won't suddenly appear complete in someone mind. The so called "profound experiences" with some label slapped to it referring to some part of the dharma book isn't having models of mind yet. One cannot really explain anything with 'insights' alone. One could if we didn't redefine meaning of the term to mean absolutely nothing.
BTW. Myself I 'attained' 4th path about 9 years ago. I rarely use that mind but I can should I want it and it has its nice qualities. It I can say "it just works!". I guess I am like a crab, I shed my mind states all the time when I outgrow them. Years after I stumbled on idea of coherence which led to development of much better mindfulness. Still working on it but at this point I have like multiple workarounds for each occasion so its kinda not needed. The point if there is any is to grow and improve models and improve mind and get new skills and understandings. There is always "I don't get it at all" -> "This might be helpful..." -> "I get it now!" -> "figured new stuff and it seems my understanding was still incomplete" -> "this might be helpful..." -> etc. cycle of development and improvement. Of course I already knew it even at 1st path and knew that mind I developed nine years ago impermanent, has dukkha issues (even if very minor) and its not my true self - probably because all dharmas are empty.
I see.
I wouldn’t at any point in this process claim anything. What I mean is I WILL never claim anything. I’ve learned a lot about Buddhism and other systems but the thing from the beginning seems to be hindered by conclusions and their subsequent claims, for me. That’s not to say anyone’s claims are not true (how would I/we know?). And some people seem to get fuel from breaking it all down and “mathing” the path out. There seems to be a need for some kind of energy and drive to keep going in times when the process gets hard. Some people say there has to be desire, or there has to be SOMETHING pushing you. This might be curiosity, desire for bliss, desire for an experience, longing for relief of suffering, or anything else in that vain. The path is hard and fraught with difficulties along it. It’s not something a person can stroll down while smelling the flowers. Sure, there are some flowers along the way, but in my experience there is much more strife.
For me the initial jolt had so much bliss and oneness it keeps me pointed at it, or HAS kept me pointed at it, with a certainty that is still there. At first all I wanted was to get back to that bliss as it faded. It carried me through some terrible and dark upheavals and insights. After that there was like a desert, a time when not much happened. I wouldn’t know how to place this time in any system but I’m sure someone could. Finding its place never seemed important. Sure, I looked around, read mctb, read some books suggested by people, watched videos, listened to talks, all that. There were times I was curious “where I was” on the path, but more recently the biggest thing was the realization that the ONE who wanted to know these things was part of the problem. I can’t say how this insight came, there were many sources from different places, but it came. When it came it was clear as day. I was like “oh…” it was like a meta stepping back and seeing the whole paradigm of seeking fall away.
After that I lost interest in a lot of seeking behavior. The work seems to be noticing at every moment I’m not directly occupied in some life situation I need to focus on, what is happening inside myself. When I say “meditation” this is what I’m referring to.
When I started sitting meditation I could find a spot I called “sitting at the fountain of thought.” This was the spot where thoughts turned into words, images, ideas, language. I found I could stay there with just the right amount of effort, and watch the genesis of thought without it turning into language, images, etc. Too much and I bounced out. After a while I began to be able to do it in more and more situations. While driving, walking, talking to people, working, cleaning, anything, until it kind of became a default mode.
That’s where I’m at now. I figure one of two things will happen.
A) I’ll die before it finishes
it will finish before I die and I probably won’t care about attainments at that point. Or maybe I’ll go about mapping the experience backwards for fun, who knows.