Starting a new relationship

Giulio B, modified 12 Years ago at 2/23/12 7:15 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/23/12 7:15 AM

Starting a new relationship

Posts: 19 Join Date: 8/13/11 Recent Posts
About starting a new relationship of sexual/sentimental nature, when pursuing advancement on the stages of insight...

My pros:
- it exchanges some negative feeling or thought patterns with positive ones. specifically depression and loneliness go away in a blink, self-esteem rockets up
- feels good for some time

My cons:
- lots of craving
- fights, ambiguity, dependence
- it gets worse with time
- jealousy, worry for betrayals
- mind is occupied with other things than practice (Mahasi S. said " you must give up worldly thoughts and actions during the training")
- constant worry that what you're really seeking is beyond sensory and emotional pleasure, and so need for something else

My general attitude is to tend to avoid getting involved in a relationship while being on a spiritual quest. I ask you if you can kindly tell me if you can spot biases (neurotic) in this attitude, or more simply if it makes sense.
mind less, modified 12 Years ago at 2/23/12 11:50 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/23/12 11:50 AM

RE: Starting a new relationship

Posts: 81 Join Date: 1/6/12 Recent Posts
The positive thoughts and emotions are not "pros" and the negative thoughts and emotions are not "cons". You can use all thoughts, emotions and sensations to develop insight. You do that by observing your thoughts, emotions and sensations with equanimity, i.e. not valuing them as positive or negative. Without this intellectual insight, there will be no "advancement on the stages of [experiential] insight". When you have advanced on the path, you can 'withdraw from the world' and get some more advanced training, but don't forget that life must be lived in the world. You will learn a lot from a relationship, if you respect your own time.
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Steph S, modified 12 Years ago at 2/23/12 1:02 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/23/12 1:02 PM

RE: Starting a new relationship

Posts: 672 Join Date: 3/24/10 Recent Posts
by assuming feelings of depression & loneliness can be exchanged with positive feelings... do you see that the pros you listed are perceived solutions for the cons? how can this be true, or work to any effect, if there is a contiual exchange of feelings... ping ponging back and forth between "good" feelings and "bad" feelings?
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Dauphin Supple Chirp, modified 12 Years ago at 2/23/12 1:37 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/23/12 1:37 PM

RE: Starting a new relationship

Posts: 154 Join Date: 3/15/11 Recent Posts
What Steph said.

Instead of giving you another opinion to the same effect, though, I would like to give you relationship advice emoticon

Understand that a romantic relationship is not about finding the perfect partner, your soul mate, anything like that. If you approach the relationship from this perspective, you will keep trying to force yourself and your partner into "perfection," meaning you will expect everything to always satisfy you. Since nothing is ever totally satisfactory, you will just create suffering.

Be honest with yourself. Analyze the motivations you have mentioned further: Isn't it true that the underlying reason why you perceive a relationship as capable of replacing negative emotions with positive ones is that you are trying to derive self-worth from relationship success? Isn't it also true that this has a lot to do with expected or perceived appearance and not all that much with direct experience?

Finally, "worries of betrayal" are virtually a guarantee for suffering and eventual failure. Do you get into your car every morning worrying about your engine, your tires, drunk drivers, and whatever else might happen? Do you bank with the constant fear that today might be the day the international monetary system collapses? Do you reach out and offer someone your hand to greet him while internally panicking about weapons he might be about to use against you? If you do, you are living in a huge amount of unnecessary suffering. Your car will eventually break down, people will hurt you, the banking system has no mathematical way of surviving the next 30 years without a major collapse, and you shouldn't ignore all this, but there is a difference between prudent prevention and obsession with disastrous eventualities. Maintain your car reasonably well; don't keep all your savings in fiat money or instruments based on it; use condoms to reduce the chance of getting a disease; be alert and mindful in general. Don't even waste a thought on "betrayal" by your lover. We are all biological beings, and if we are honest with ourselves, we have to admit that we all do smart things sometimes and stupid things a lot of the time. Give your partner the freedom to make her own choices and mistakes. What's the worst that could happen? And more importantly: What would you ever be able to do about it anyway?
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Jon T, modified 12 Years ago at 2/23/12 3:28 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/23/12 3:28 PM

RE: Starting a new relationship

Posts: 401 Join Date: 12/30/10 Recent Posts
the banking system has no mathematical way of surviving the next 30 years without a major collapse


tell me more!

to the OP.

Having a consistently satisfying friendship is more skillful than not having one. Having a consistently satisfying sexual release is more skillful than not having one. and best be satisfied with your station than ashamed.

What is and isn't satisfying changes over time according to your emotional patterns and idealogical changes. Best to smooth out your emotional pattern and completely understand your idealogy. From there, what is and isn't satisfying and why-so becomes much easier. In the mean-time, i say go for it but don't rush it. today may be your last day on earth but maybe not.
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Thom W, modified 12 Years ago at 2/24/12 5:22 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/24/12 5:32 AM

RE: Starting a new relationship

Posts: 63 Join Date: 12/31/10 Recent Posts
Hey Giulio

Some nice and potentially very helpful things:

A dharma talk on love, attachment and relationship by Susan Piver Here...highly recommended. Very down to earth and honest talk, with some practical ideas and profound concepts to apply.

Two talks by Ram Dass on the dharma of love and relationship: One and two

And for my contribution to the wisdom above...

To be given the opportunity of a love relationship on the path is a deep blessing. IF you gather the courage to make it so.

If you want to practice the dharma, the fastest and most profound way to make progress is to include EVERYTHING in your practice. Forget renunciate-tasting Mahasi quotes. EVERY aspect of your life, from job to food to sex to finance to family to fitness to lover to pet...everything. It is a fiery way, sometimes very painful (we are confronting what we have habitually avoided), but if you approach the pain with courage and humility and a deep desire to grow, you will never look back.

The only difference between dharma without love relationships and dharma with love relationships is the intensity of the fears and desires that arise...in short, our deepest patterns and conditioning. Get into them with a passion for confronting every resistance and buckle up for entry to the dharma fast lane.

If you choose this path then it will serve you to have a practice that you're comfortable with. Some kind of body based mindfulness practice. My first vipassana course coincided with the ending of my first major love relationship so I can speak with some kind of confidence here. If you keep awareness grounded in the body throughout all emotional storms (light or heavy) and stay relentlessly in the body, then rather astounding wisdom and freedom can result. But that willingness to do so requires two things - motivation and technique. Make sure to cultivate both!

I wish you the very very best.
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Oliver Myth, modified 12 Years ago at 2/24/12 7:04 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/24/12 6:20 AM

RE: Starting a new relationship

Posts: 143 Join Date: 6/10/11 Recent Posts
I'm in a relationship and pursuing spiritual pursuits with no problem. Here is a link both her and I have loved that forms a huge basis of our relationship about sincerity and vulnerability.

www.ted.com/talks/brene_brown_on_vulnerability.html

On top of that, scientific consensus is that people in relationships are happier than those without. Its easy to google info on this, so I won't cite it.

On top of that on top of that, don't be timid! There's no reason to hold back. Be strong, because you are capable of dealing with the issues ahead of you. The worst that could happen is that you screw up and then you die. I don't believe there is only one person for someone, so if this relationship fails, you can have a go at another.

On top of that on top of that on top of that, there may be objective reasons not to go into a relationship. if its just psychologlical worry, than the best solution is to go for it.

Thom W:
The only difference between dharma without love relationships and dharma with love relationships is the power of the fears and desires that arise...in short, our deepest patterns and conditioning. Get into them with a passion for confronting every resistance and buckle up for the entry to the dharma fast lane.


Oliver
Jason , modified 12 Years ago at 2/24/12 10:44 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/24/12 10:44 AM

RE: Starting a new relationship

Posts: 340 Join Date: 8/9/11 Recent Posts
I did have more time to meditate before meeting my girl friend, but having a connection to the world beyond my zafu benefits me emotionally, and contributes to practice too. There's nothing like a relationship to dispel any illusions of false enlightenment, or purity. Love brings in LOTS of challenging material for practice.
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Tarver , modified 12 Years ago at 2/24/12 8:48 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/24/12 8:48 PM

RE: Starting a new relationship

Posts: 262 Join Date: 2/3/10 Recent Posts
Go for it!
Giulio B, modified 12 Years ago at 2/25/12 5:59 AM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/25/12 5:59 AM

RE: Starting a new relationship

Posts: 19 Join Date: 8/13/11 Recent Posts
I've read all the answers, but I'm confused and haven't got anything meaningful to say yet.

(much thanks for now)
Giulio B, modified 12 Years ago at 2/26/12 1:29 PM
Created 12 Years ago at 2/26/12 1:29 PM

RE: Starting a new relationship (Answer)

Posts: 19 Join Date: 8/13/11 Recent Posts
Thanks everyone again! What you said is true, and i only wanted to escape fears and stress due to a prolonged situation of ambiguity.

Specifically tonight i've made a first step and it seems that something has started (given that she won't change her mind, and not that it matters). The most important thing is that it ended a stressful situation, incidentally for the perceived better (but as i said it doesn't matter) and i consider this as training in morality.

Considerations:

- although i'm happier and intrigued, i don't care that much about the new situation
- the main problems remain depression, current neuroticisms, illness, old age and death. i haven't forgotten one bit of this stuff.
- intellectually, i almost only care about practice. for how much deluded this attitude may be, this is what it is...
- i still feel that nothing whatsoever in the world will ever fill the void inside
- my willingness to practice has raised itself a little

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