When I try to sleep I find myself slipping into jhana instead. Particularly if I try to nap in the day.

Does anyone else have experience of this?

If so..

• Should this be avoided or cultivated?
• How?

At least in the daytime I find it quite refreshing. At night it seems a nuisance.

Me too.

Before SE I napped often after work. Sometimes I woke up really groggy after 1-2 hrs.
Post-SE It is almost like I cannot nap anymore. I slip into meditation instead, by just a twist in the awareness. I would call it vipassana rather than jhana, but it is probably a mix.
The body seems to react more like it is sleeping though.

I agree that it is more refreshing than sleep especially when it ends in a fruition.

It is meditation, so why not cultivate?

It does not trouble me at night. The decision to go to sleep seems to do something, together with lying down.

Yeah me too. I have to work a fortnight (2 weeks) of nightshift out of every 6. During those 2 weeks I find myself quite often laying down with the intention to sleep, but instead meditating for several hours.

I've spent lots of time in jhana, going up and down the 'arc', but also in vipassana. In fact I would say a lot of good practise has been done during these times.

The inability to sleep used to cause me all sorts of frustration and often I would just knock myself out with booze and sleeping pills, not good. At least now I'm doing something useful.

Also during 'normal' sleep I quite often wake up in jhana, or am woken up and find myself 'rising' into some state. I haven't quite worked out what it is yet.

I can see how you would find this a nuisance, but look on the bright side Mr. Bagpuss, at least you are getting good at samatha!

Hello,

Whether it is a good idea to do this or not depends on the type of jhana you're referring to. Since you're presumably feeling drowsy in these situations, it is very possible that you are cultivating a jhana of hindrances, and that is obviously not what you should be doing. A better alternative is a body scan type of practice. In this situation, those practices are less prone to wrong concentration pitfalls, and will aid in the relaxation and fading out of the senses ... done properly, you will fall asleep quickly and mindfully. Later, after awakening mindfully-- with a mind well rested, and alert-- you may practice jhana properly.

From MN 108:

"Once, Ven. Ananda, Master Gotama was staying near Vesali in the Peaked Roofed Pavilion in the Great Wood. I went to him at the Peaked Roofed Pavilion in the Great Wood, and there he spoke in a variety of ways on mental absorption. Master Gotama was both endowed with mental absorption & made mental absorption his habit. In fact, he praised mental absorption of every sort."

"It wasn't the case, brahman, that the Blessed One praised mental absorption of every sort, nor did he criticize mental absorption of every sort. And what sort of mental absorption did he not praise? There is the case where a certain person dwells with his awareness overcome by sensual passion, seized with sensual passion. He does not discern the escape, as it actually is present, from sensual passion once it has arisen. Making that sensual passion the focal point, he absorbs himself with it, besorbs, resorbs, & supersorbs himself with it.

"He dwells with his awareness overcome by ill will...

"He dwells with his awareness overcome by sloth & drowsiness...

"He dwells with his awareness overcome by restlessness & anxiety...

"He dwells with his awareness overcome by uncertainty, seized with uncertainty. He does not discern the escape, as it actually is present, from uncertainty once it has arisen. Making that uncertainty the focal point, he absorbs himself with it, besorbs, resorbs, & supersorbs himself with it. This is the sort of mental absorption that the Blessed One did not praise.

"And what sort of mental absorption did he praise? There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful (mental) qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. With the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of concentration, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance. With the fading of rapture, he remains equanimous, mindful, & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' With the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain. This is the sort of mental absorption that the Blessed One praised.

This is my experience, but I don't have SE yet. Im most often somewhere in equanimity with occasional dips into the DN and down to A&P again.



Yep. Often it seems like good practice. The first time this happened was the first time I crossed the DN into EQ. Sometimes the body-mind just wants to meditate, and there's not much I can do to control it.



Yes! This has happened to me a couple of times as well. Like you I've not really got a handle on it yet though. I get the impression it happens way more often than I realise.



Agreed. I do seem to have finally got it, and it looks like my mind likes it very much...



I don't really feel drowsy. It feels pretty zingy really. Pretty much the same thing I feel when I do it on purpose.

Body scanning is my primary vipassana practice. I can't imagine how it could aid sleep, so I imagine we're talking about slightly different techniques. Can you elaborate a bit on this practice please Null?

Thanks everyone,

Oh... why do you try to nap if you don't feel drowsy?



What do you mean by 'zingy'? I looked that word up in a dictionary and both 'enjoyably exciting' and 'strikingly attractive or appealing' sound like a bizarre way to describe states of calm abiding.



Those practices are usually aimed at subduing, relaxing and eliminating bodily fabrications; fabrications are inconstant; inconstancy is stressful... Don't you slip into sleep more easily when untroubled and at ease as compared to when perturbed and restless?

Hehe.. poorly explained on my part I fear: I mean I don't feel drowsy when in the jhana. It seems to pick me right up immediately and feels exactly the same as when I cultivate this state in my ordinary practice.



Alert and relaxed as opposed to suffering sloth and torpor.



Often I am in the DN. These sensations are course and not conducive to sleep. Even in EQ (rare if I am tired, like at bedtime) I find the fizzy sensations through the body are not helpful for sleep.

Alright, this doesn't sound like a bad idea then. Keep in mind that your posture can have a significant impact on how things eventuate, so if you first lay down with the intent to sleep but end up practicing jhana instead, consider sitting back up to maximize your results.



Ignorance is the dark night
Whether coarse or fine
Whether painful or pleasant
There is no refuge
Under shadows of becoming