How ordinary happy people live

How ordinary happy people live This Good Self 12/3/12 6:20 PM
RE: How ordinary happy people live John Wilde 12/3/12 6:39 PM
RE: How ordinary happy people live Jane Laurel Carrington 12/3/12 7:13 PM
RE: How ordinary happy people live Adam . . 12/3/12 7:29 PM
RE: How ordinary happy people live Some Guy 12/3/12 7:40 PM
RE: How ordinary happy people live Fitter Stoke 12/4/12 9:28 AM
RE: How ordinary happy people live Some Guy 1/7/13 2:57 PM
RE: How ordinary happy people live Fitter Stoke 12/4/12 10:25 AM
RE: How ordinary happy people live Some Guy 1/7/13 2:57 PM
RE: How ordinary happy people live Felipe C. 12/3/12 8:16 PM
RE: How ordinary happy people live This Good Self 12/3/12 10:43 PM
RE: How ordinary happy people live Shashank Dixit 12/3/12 8:51 PM
RE: How ordinary happy people live James Yen 12/3/12 10:16 PM
RE: How ordinary happy people live (D Z) Dhru Val 12/3/12 10:25 PM
RE: How ordinary happy people live This Good Self 12/3/12 10:56 PM
RE: How ordinary happy people live M N 12/4/12 3:57 AM
RE: How ordinary happy people live J Adam G 12/4/12 12:08 PM
RE: How ordinary happy people live This Good Self 12/5/12 1:10 AM
RE: How ordinary happy people live (D Z) Dhru Val 12/4/12 10:39 AM
RE: How ordinary happy people live Jane Laurel Carrington 12/4/12 11:12 AM
RE: How ordinary happy people live Fitter Stoke 12/4/12 12:08 PM
RE: How ordinary happy people live Bailey . 12/3/12 11:03 PM
RE: How ordinary happy people live This Good Self 12/4/12 1:42 AM
RE: How ordinary happy people live This Good Self 12/4/12 2:34 AM
RE: How ordinary happy people live m m a 12/4/12 8:21 AM
RE: How ordinary happy people live Tom Tom 12/3/12 11:11 PM
RE: How ordinary happy people live Adam . . 12/3/12 11:54 PM
RE: How ordinary happy people live Brother Pussycat 12/5/12 4:24 PM
RE: How ordinary happy people live Fitter Stoke 12/5/12 5:12 PM
RE: How ordinary happy people live Brother Pussycat 12/6/12 2:37 AM
This Good Self, modified 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 6:20 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 6:17 PM

How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 946 Join Date: 3/9/10 Recent Posts
How ordinary happy (non-buddhist) people live:

-- There's a gentle acceptance of how things are
-- There's an absence of trying and 'efforting'
-- There's playfulness and spontaneity
-- There's laughter
-- There's attention to the present moment


How serious buddhists live:

-- 'Here and now' is not good enough. There's a desperate need to be some place else.
-- There's massive effort to escape to Nirvana.
-- There's seriousness at very high levels
-- There's intellectualism and 'scientism' going on at extreme levels
-- There's damaged self-esteem propped up with spiritual elitism
-- There's grimness and determination that would make a Chinese factory worker look unmotivated
-- There's just plain unhappiness


In case you had your eyes shut, every second post in here is about sleep issues, obesity, anxiety, depression, nightmares, worthlesness, relationship difficulties, mood swings, fatigue, aches and pains, difficulties with work/studies. The Dho is like some sort of fucking mental illness forum.

If you'd like to escape religion, just look around you. There are people in the world who live happily with out it ( they fit the first criteria). Not many of them around, granted, but some. I like to model myself on them.
John Wilde, modified 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 6:39 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 6:39 PM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 501 Join Date: 10/26/10 Recent Posts
C C C:
I like to model myself on them.


If you had what you're advocating, you wouldn't need to.

You're not on the outside looking in; you're on the inside looking out through a different window.
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Jane Laurel Carrington, modified 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 7:13 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 7:13 PM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 196 Join Date: 12/29/10 Recent Posts
Extremely well said, Mr. Wilde. I can't understand why C C C even wants to hang out with such a miserable bunch. Are you trying to reform us? Do you have nothing better to do with your time?

The only thing I can say is that I now better resemble the first group you list here than when I started meditating two years ago. People don't undertake this practice because they're already happy. It takes a push from some direction or other. Not everyone responds to the same methods, either, so to each his or her own. The methods I've been following have been helpful for me, Dark Night and all.
Adam , modified 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 7:29 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 7:29 PM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 613 Join Date: 3/20/12 Recent Posts
CCC these sound like the words of someone who has tried, but not tried hard enough.
Some Guy, modified 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 7:40 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 7:40 PM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 343 Join Date: 8/9/11 Recent Posts
C C C:
How ordinary happy (non-buddhist) people live:

-- There's a gentle acceptance of how things are
-- There's an absence of trying and 'efforting'
-- There's playfulness and spontaneity
-- There's laughter
-- There's attention to the present moment


That's my favorite car commercial too!
Felipe C, modified 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 8:16 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 8:16 PM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 221 Join Date: 5/29/11 Recent Posts
C C C:

How ordinary happy (non-buddhist) people live:

-- There's a gentle acceptance of how things are
-- There's an absence of trying and 'efforting'
-- There's playfulness and spontaneity
-- There's laughter
-- There's attention to the present moment


Yeah, I agree with you, but, also, how ordinary people live:

-- There's an unsettling nonacceptance of how things are
-- There's plenty of trying and 'efforting'
-- There's seriousness and repression
-- There's crying
-- There's inattention to the present moment

Would you agree?
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Shashank Dixit, modified 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 8:51 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 8:51 PM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 282 Join Date: 9/11/10 Recent Posts
and more than anything else, I have not found a single "ordinary happy (non-buddhist)" that
wants to be completely free from ill-will/aggression/malice
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James Yen, modified 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 10:16 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 10:16 PM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 270 Join Date: 9/6/09 Recent Posts
I have to agree with CCC.

Why do people here persist in something that makes them unhappy?

I never thought intensely labeling phenomena to the extent that I black-out would bring me happiness. All it did was fuck up my mind, that why I quit a while back.

Now of course you could say: Well James hit 3Cs and never crossed the A&P, that's why he's not a believer!

OK then.
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(D Z) Dhru Val, modified 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 10:25 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 10:24 PM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 346 Join Date: 9/18/11 Recent Posts
C C C:
How ordinary happy (non-buddhist) people live... I like to model myself on them.


Good.

How do you practice being like that, assuming there is some things one can do to get there ? How has it impacted your life / happiness so far ?
This Good Self, modified 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 10:43 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 10:43 PM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 946 Join Date: 3/9/10 Recent Posts
Felipe C.:
C C C:

How ordinary happy (non-buddhist) people live:

-- There's a gentle acceptance of how things are
-- There's an absence of trying and 'efforting'
-- There's playfulness and spontaneity
-- There's laughter
-- There's attention to the present moment


Yeah, I agree with you, but, also, how ordinary people live:

-- There's an unsettling nonacceptance of how things are
-- There's plenty of trying and 'efforting'
-- There's seriousness and repression
-- There's crying
-- There's inattention to the present moment

Would you agree?


Yes, I'd agree.
This Good Self, modified 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 10:56 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 10:54 PM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 946 Join Date: 3/9/10 Recent Posts
D Z:
C C C:
How ordinary happy (non-buddhist) people live... I like to model myself on them.


Good.

How do you practice being like that, assuming there is some things one can do to get there ? How has it impacted your life / happiness so far ?


Attention + self talk + correct attitude.

Attention - mainly involves picking out aspects of either my self or environment or others or the world that cause me grief. Everyone has their own pet grievances where they get hung up. Sometimes it's about self, sometimes it's about others, sometimes it's about Life in general.

self-talk - "This is how things are. This is how I am. This how the world is. Nothing is wrong. Nothing needs to change. Nothing needs to be achieved". As I say the word "this" I dive into "what is".

correct attitude - whatever is happening now is the only thing that can be happening at this moment. Whatever is now is right.


Has improved material success (paradoxically) and happiness, less need for sleep, smoother more peaceful relationships. Less agitation.

Wording is so important. The way I've worded what I do may not resonate with you or anyone else here, but maybe the vibe of it will.
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Bailey , modified 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 11:03 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 11:03 PM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 267 Join Date: 7/14/11 Recent Posts
How ordinary happy (non-buddhist) people live:

-- There's a gentle acceptance of how things are
-- There's an absence of trying and 'efforting'
-- There's playfulness and spontaneity
-- There's laughter
-- There's attention to the present moment


How serious buddhists live:

-- 'Here and now' is not good enough. There's a desperate need to be some place else.
-- There's massive effort to escape to Nirvana.
-- There's seriousness at very high levels
-- There's intellectualism and 'scientism' going on at extreme levels
-- There's damaged self-esteem propped up with spiritual elitism
-- There's grimness and determination that would make a Chinese factory worker look unmotivated
-- There's just plain unhappiness


These are some very good points CCC.

However, I hope everyone will remember the most important point. And that is that those of the top column will have to suffer hell many times over through the sea of rebirths while those in the bottom column will not. People work very hard in Med school or in Business so that they can have the benefit later on. This is no different.
Tom Tom, modified 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 11:11 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 11:11 PM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 466 Join Date: 9/19/09 Recent Posts
People who are done or nearing completion will exhibit the top qualities. People who are just starting or in the middle will exhibit the bottom qualities. The people who post on this forum are people looking for help and are less likely to be people who are done or nearing completion. People who are no longer seeking tend to leave the forum and either not post on it again or they post less frequently.
Adam , modified 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 11:54 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/3/12 11:54 PM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 613 Join Date: 3/20/12 Recent Posts
good point!!!
This Good Self, modified 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 1:42 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 1:41 AM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 946 Join Date: 3/9/10 Recent Posts
Blue .:


However, I hope everyone will remember the most important point. And that is that those of the top column will have to suffer hell many times over through the sea of rebirths while those in the bottom column will not. People work very hard in Med school or in Business so that they can have the benefit later on. This is no different.


Thanks for bringing this up blue, because I should have mentioned it. In the temporal world, the Med student can set and achieve a string of different goals. But Enlightenment requires us to let go of that function of mind which insists that there is a future that even exists in which to achieve said goal. (Enlightenment is beyond time and space). There's no future or past in which to grab hold of it.

Adyashanti says it much better than me. Hope you like it.

from his website:

There is a wonderful story about a young man who checks into the monastery, full of juice and ready to be enlightened yesterday. He asks the abbot, "How long will it take me to be enlightened?" To which the abbot answers, "About ten years." The young man says, "Ten years! Why ten years?" The abbot replies, "Oh, twenty years in your case." The man asks, "Why do you say twenty years?" The abbot says, "Oh, I’m sorry. I was mistaken…thirty years."

If you really get it, you realize that to even ask the question gets you ten years. As soon as the thought, "When will I really be free?" comes up, time has just birthed itself into existence. And with this birth of time you have to think, "Probably at least ten years, maybe forever." Where can you go in order to get here? Any step takes you somewhere else.

This is surprising to the mind because the mind always thinks of freedom, or enlightenment, as some sort of accumulation, and of course there is nothing to accumulate. It’s about realizing what you are, what you have always been. This realization is outside of time because it’s now or never.

As soon as your idea of enlightenment becomes time-bound, it’s always about the next moment. You may have a deep spiritual experience and then ask, "How long will I sustain this experience?" As long as you insist on the question, you remain time-bound. If you are still interested in time and the spiritual accumulations you can have in time, you will get a time-bound experience. The mind is acting as if what you are looking for isn’t already present right now. Now is outside of time. There is no time, and the paradox is that the only thing that keeps you from seeing the eternal is that your mind is stuck in time. So you miss what’s actually here.

Have you ever felt that you really didn’t like being here very much and that you wanted some wonderful eternal experience? That’s what is often thought but not said when the teacher says, "Be here right now." Inside you are feeling, "I am here, and I don’t like being here. I want to be there, where enlightenment is." If you have a really true teacher, you will be told that you are mistaken, that you have never been here. You’ve always been in time, therefore, you have never actually shown up here. Your body was here, but the rest of you went somewhere else.

Your body has been going through this thing called "life," but your head has been going through this thing called "my fantasy about life" or "my big story about life." You have been caught in an interpretation about life, so you have never really been here.

Here is the Promised Land. The eternal is here. Have you ever noticed that you have never left here, except in your mind? When you remember the past, you are not actually in the past. Your remembering is happening here. When you think about the future, that future projection is completely here. And when you get to the future, it’s here. It’s no longer the future.

To be here, all you have to do is let go of who you think you are. That’s all! And then you realize, "I’m here." Here is where thoughts aren’t believed. Every time you come here, you are nothing. Radiantly nothing. Absolutely and eternally zero. Emptiness that is awake. Emptiness that is full. Emptiness that is everything.
This Good Self, modified 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 2:34 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 2:32 AM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 946 Join Date: 3/9/10 Recent Posts
And this from Tolle;


"So the egoless state does not lie in the future. It has nothing to do with the future," he says. "You cannot make it into a goal. You cannot make - whether you call it the egoless state, or whether you call it enlightenment - you cannot make it into a goal. 'Goal' implies future," he observes, and "the very entry point into the egoless state or enlightenment is the present moment."

"If you make (enlightenment) into a goal you want to achieve," says Tolle, "you miss the entry point, because you are looking to the future."

"That is the dilemna of all spiritual seekers," he observes. "Because they listen to a spiritual talk or read a spiritual book and say, 'There is such a thing as the egoless state, or the enlightened state, and perhaps I can achieve it too.' And immediately they make it into a goal (and) project it away. It becomes mind, a mental image of 'who' I want to 'be' (in the) future. And (they do) not realize that their very search to actualize that image prevents them from being it, now. Because the entry point is here, (in) this moment only. The ego can only be transcended through accessing the power of the present moment." There is, he says, "no other way."
M N, modified 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 3:57 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 3:48 AM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 210 Join Date: 3/3/12 Recent Posts
In the conceptual framework used in this forum, what you describe has nothing to do with insight and everything to do with morality.

And, by the way, I really like it, there are not many people in this forum posting about the first training.

So, I'll ask a few questions:

Attention + self talk + correct attitude

-During your day, how often this process is repeated?

-how long have you been using this approach?
-how long did it take to show some result?
-the shown results lead to a progressive, linear improvement of the quality of life? Or maybe it's better described as a series of ups and downs, but with a constant "up" trend on the long run? Or maybe something like up. then a stabilization period, and then up again?
-did you have positive feedback from others?
-did this practice resulted in some change in habits, behavior, interests and so forth?

-Any unexpected side effect? Is there some part of this process that seems not beneficial, not optimal? In other words, have you noticed any disadvantage, fault, or something unsettling/uncomfortable in any way coming from this practice, or maybe that was already there, but this practice brought to light?

I ask because I'm really interested in this thing, I'd like to get an idea of how it's working...

Bye!

[some edits]
m m a, modified 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 8:21 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 8:21 AM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 153 Join Date: 6/9/11 Recent Posts
Blue .:
How ordinary happy (non-buddhist) people live:
However, I hope everyone will remember the most important point. And that is that those of the top column will have to suffer hell many times over through the sea of rebirths while those in the bottom column will not. People work very hard in Med school or in Business so that they can have the benefit later on. This is no different.


I find it hard to believe that you choose to take that teaching literally... or perhaps I misunderstand your point.
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Fitter Stoke, modified 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 9:28 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 9:28 AM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 487 Join Date: 1/23/12 Recent Posts
Jason B:
C C C:
How ordinary happy (non-buddhist) people live:

-- There's a gentle acceptance of how things are
-- There's an absence of trying and 'efforting'
-- There's playfulness and spontaneity
-- There's laughter
-- There's attention to the present moment


That's my favorite car commercial too!


http://youtu.be/mcMpJlYynBw
Some Guy, modified 9 Years ago at 1/7/13 2:57 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 9:53 AM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 343 Join Date: 8/9/11 Recent Posts
Fitter Stoke:
Jason B:
C C C:
How ordinary happy (non-buddhist) people live:

-- There's a gentle acceptance of how things are
-- There's an absence of trying and 'efforting'
-- There's playfulness and spontaneity
-- There's laughter
-- There's attention to the present moment


That's my favorite car commercial too!


http://youtu.be/mcMpJlYynBw


Yeah, good one.
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Fitter Stoke, modified 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 10:25 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 10:23 AM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 487 Join Date: 1/23/12 Recent Posts
Jason B:
Fitter Stoke:
Jason B:
C C C:
How ordinary happy (non-buddhist) people live:

-- There's a gentle acceptance of how things are
-- There's an absence of trying and 'efforting'
-- There's playfulness and spontaneity
-- There's laughter
-- There's attention to the present moment


That's my favorite car commercial too!


http://youtu.be/mcMpJlYynBw


Yeah, good one.

This thread reminds me a little of patients who come for acupuncture because of, say, a digestive issue, and are appalled that their problem might have something to do with what they're eating. "Why can't I just go back to eating junk and be thin and healthy like everyone else?" The prognosis is poor.

To extend the analogy (hopefully without sidelining the discussion) there's a model of healthcare where you can take a pill for a problem and call that health. It works sort of, sometimes, but you have to keep taking it and eventually more and more pills. This is like worldly happiness. With a lucky life, and a "healthy ego's" toolkit of defense mechanisms, you can be more or less happy in a way until you die. That's fine. There's another model where you seek out the sources of problems, work to correct them, and restore healthy functionality to your body over time. It's more work, may be more money upfront (probably less in the long run), and the benefits are best viewed from a broad perspective - which are that you actually get healthier over time. This, to me, is like working for happiness that doesn't rely on external conditions. Most people won't seek it if they're not suffering enough, or if conventional interventions work for them, which leads to the unfortunate confusion of suffering with the practice.

[I invoke the 10,000 disclaimers of the alt med practitioner. Don't read too much into it. It's just an analogy.]


That's so sad, Jason. Clearly you're a failure if your life doesn't resemble a Mentos commercial.
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(D Z) Dhru Val, modified 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 10:39 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 10:35 AM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 346 Join Date: 9/18/11 Recent Posts
C C C:


Attention + self talk + correct attitude.

Attention - mainly involves picking out aspects of either my self or environment or others or the world that cause me grief. Everyone has their own pet grievances where they get hung up. Sometimes it's about self, sometimes it's about others, sometimes it's about Life in general.

self-talk - "This is how things are. This is how I am. This how the world is. Nothing is wrong. Nothing needs to change. Nothing needs to be achieved". As I say the word "this" I dive into "what is".

correct attitude - whatever is happening now is the only thing that can be happening at this moment. Whatever is now is right.


This sort of psychotheraputic mindfulness is beneficial. Another way is to tie in present day grievances to past traumas and let the whole thing in a similar manner.

My personal experience is that meditative insight makes this process orders of magnitude more effective. So much so that the effect can be quite transformative.

The thing that I disagree with you on about the initial post, is the strongly negative language regarding the moment by moment noting type meditation that is practiced here on DhO. As it has been highly beneficial for me personally.

Shinzen also has an interesting take on this issue.,
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Jane Laurel Carrington, modified 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 11:12 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 11:12 AM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 196 Join Date: 12/29/10 Recent Posts
Here's an article that may be relevant to this thread:

http://www.tricycle.com/feature/psychology-awakening?page=0,0
Some Guy, modified 9 Years ago at 1/7/13 2:57 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 11:14 AM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 343 Join Date: 8/9/11 Recent Posts
Fitter Stoke:
That's so sad, Jason. Clearly you're a failure if your life doesn't resemble a Mentos commercial.


Perfect. As one of the youtube commenters pointed out, "now they call it Xanax."
J Adam G, modified 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 12:08 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 12:08 PM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 286 Join Date: 9/15/09 Recent Posts
Mario Nistri:
In the conceptual framework used in this forum, what you describe has nothing to do with insight and everything to do with morality.


Bingo. Yes, Dark Night yogis generally need lots of instruction on skillful thoughts, views, effort, speech, livelihood, etc. because they didn't feel a need to take it so seriously earlier before their denial about suffering broke down. Now they do.

This point does not invalidate the usefulness of the other two trainings; it's just pointing out that Right Concentration and Right Mindfulness are only 2 spokes out of the wheel. The other 6 spokes matter just as much, and the book this community is built around simply doesn't teach very much about the Sila trainings. It wasn't designed as a Sila book, because there are already a ton of those out there.

However, so many people have treated MCTB as a general pragmatic dharma Bible instead of as the highly specialized treatise it is, and it may have been a bit of a design oversight not to more thoroughly cover tactics for coping healthily with the dark night. The book emphasizes that you should prevent bleedthrough, but doesn't tell you how to do it other than make formal resolutions. If formal resolutions don't work for you and you're practicing out of the book with no teacher, you're screwed!
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Fitter Stoke, modified 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 12:08 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 12:08 PM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 487 Join Date: 1/23/12 Recent Posts
Jane Laurel Carrington:
Here's an article that may be relevant to this thread:

http://www.tricycle.com/feature/psychology-awakening?page=0,0


This is good.

I see a lot of confusion in the pragmatic dharma community between the relative and the absolute, between insight and content, all notwithstanding how much attention this issue got in MCTB and elsewhere.

One version I often see of this is the belief that if person X is manifesting some emotion or doing something that makes me uncomfortable, they must be "suffering", and therefore they're not so enlightened. Their views are too strong, or they express too much annoyance, or they speak in a way that's too blunt. There's a version of this assumption in the OP here.

The flip side of this is that, when confronted with something uncomfortable, instead of being with that experience, there's a retreat into emptiness or "the Witness". Or I'm interested in an argument until I feel backed into a corner, and then I decide that arguments aren't enlightened. Or I don't like something you're saying to me, so I ask, "Who is saying this to me?"

I wonder sometimes if people heeded any of Daniel Ingram's warnings about shadow issues in spiritual work.

One of the things I like about Vajrayana - despite its problems - is that there seems to be less expectation of this kind of confusion and even self-deception. As just one example, check out this essay by Chongyam Trungpa.
This Good Self, modified 9 Years ago at 12/5/12 1:10 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/4/12 11:02 PM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 946 Join Date: 3/9/10 Recent Posts
Mario Nistri:
In the conceptual framework used in this forum, what you describe has nothing to do with insight and everything to do with morality.

And, by the way, I really like it, there are not many people in this forum posting about the first training.

So, I'll ask a few questions:

Attention + self talk + correct attitude

-During your day, how often this process is repeated?

-how long have you been using this approach?
-how long did it take to show some result?
-the shown results lead to a progressive, linear improvement of the quality of life? Or maybe it's better described as a series of ups and downs, but with a constant "up" trend on the long run? Or maybe something like up. then a stabilization period, and then up again?
-did you have positive feedback from others?
-did this practice resulted in some change in habits, behavior, interests and so forth?

-Any unexpected side effect? Is there some part of this process that seems not beneficial, not optimal? In other words, have you noticed any disadvantage, fault, or something unsettling/uncomfortable in any way coming from this practice, or maybe that was already there, but this practice brought to light?

I ask because I'm really interested in this thing, I'd like to get an idea of how it's working...

Bye!

[some edits]


Hi Mario,

I just finished writing a reply that took half an hour and it deleted itself as I went to post.
I'll try tomorrow. Don't feel like it now, obviously!

Is it tomorrow yet? I've just been for a walk.

I'd just ask you to assume, if you're happy to, that what feels right is right for you at this stage. If what I say feels right, do some more. If it doesn't feel right, leave it. Just do one minute of it. This isn't for people who can do vipassana comfortably for hours on end. It's for those who feel bad/wrong/sick when they do it. Those who feel worse.

There's nothing special about this. The essence is "be who you are". Not many people seem to do it, though. Or they do it incompletely.

Find your key issue(s). When do you feel most wrong/angry/anxious/sad/agitated/uncomfortable? When (if ever) do you feel inferior, not good enough? When you know that, visualize it happening for a moment and just ask "If I had to guess, what do other people think of me in this situation?". You might assume (probably incorrectly, but that's irrelevant because it's real for you) that they might think you're not 'x' enough, successful enough, handsome enough, clever enough, sane enough, happy enough, witty enough.... and so on. What's the one overriding issue? If there's no overriding issue, you may feel that you are just plain no good, unworthy, shameful in a general sense.

Say you never finished secondary school and you always feel like others think of you as stupid. When with others you might unconsciously compensate for this by standing a little taller, trying to use big words, using a special tone of voice. Whatever it is you do to feel more intelligent will have two unfortunate results: 1) you reinforce the belief that your real level of intelligence isn't acceptable, and 2) you repel people through your anxious vibe. You're pushing yourself to be something other than *this*. It feels so counter-intuitive at first to say "this is how I am. I didn't finish school. I'm not that clever. That's ok. It doesn't need fixing or changing" and as you say this, really fall into it, embody it, live it, walk the talk.

This part is really important - feedback from others -, because you can't learn self-esteem on your own. All along we've thought "I have to be other than what I am in order to be accepted or liked", but the opposite happened. As you tried harder, this willful vibration repelled most people except those with the same vibration, reinforcing to you that you need to be more than *this*. Then paradoxically, by relaxing into who/how/what you are right now, you'll find that people open up and reinforce that you are in fact more than acceptable just this way. Total strangers will smile broadly, high-5 you, buy you a drink, cross the road just to be near you.

I haven't answered a lot of those questions you asked but this is probably a better reply than my first one that got deleted.
When the self is accepted, then it's relatively easy to extend that acceptance out onto the weather, the traffic, work, the world and so on.

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Regarding the comments about advertisements: I model myself on the attitude of acceptance, not the fruit of that (the smiling, the happiness, the ease, the comfort and so on).
Brother Pussycat, modified 9 Years ago at 12/5/12 4:24 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/5/12 4:24 PM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 77 Join Date: 12/21/11 Recent Posts
And then something extreme happens to those ordinary happy people, and then they simply become ordinary people.

Whereas a diligent Buddhist will have developed effective defense mechanisms against excessive suffering, if nothing else.
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Fitter Stoke, modified 9 Years ago at 12/5/12 5:12 PM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/5/12 5:12 PM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 487 Join Date: 1/23/12 Recent Posts
Brother Pussycat:
And then something extreme happens to those ordinary happy people, and then they simply become ordinary people.

Whereas a diligent Buddhist will have developed effective defense mechanisms against excessive suffering, if nothing else.


And what are those defense mechanisms?
Brother Pussycat, modified 9 Years ago at 12/6/12 2:37 AM
Created 9 Years ago at 12/6/12 2:37 AM

RE: How ordinary happy people live

Posts: 77 Join Date: 12/21/11 Recent Posts
Fitter Stoke:
Brother Pussycat:
And then something extreme happens to those ordinary happy people, and then they simply become ordinary people.

Whereas a diligent Buddhist will have developed effective defense mechanisms against excessive suffering, if nothing else.


And what are those defense mechanisms?


The ability to look through pain, for example. Also a changed awareness of one's thoughts and bodily sensations that doesn't make them seem 'sticky' and 'all-enveloping'. Also, depending on the kind of Buddhism in question, ways to cope with grief (metta, prayers, offerings, visualisations, tonglen etc.).

Not being either diligent or a Buddhist - but with some Buddhism-inspired practice - I have still managed to get a taste of the first two, and it has improved my life considerably, making it much more like that of CCC's "ordinary happy people" than it was say a year ago.

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