I'm experimenting with post-Path concentration practice after hitting the first jhana pre-Path. I had stopped working on concentration right after reaching the first jhana and investigating that state to verify that I was correctly identifying the experience. I got Path afterwards by alternating the first jhana with insight practice.

Post-Path I'm trying to optimize concentration before making the big push(es) for 2nd Path and onward. I've tried to 'pull myself' into the further jhanas by willfully dropping factors from the first jhana and results have been uneven. Would you recommend remaining in the first jhana without overindulging in bliss or allowing myself to become sleepy, until the mind naturally drops the effort factor and shifts into the second jhana? And would the same patient approach work for entering the third and fourth jhanas? Instinct tells me that a less-effortful strategy will succeed, but I'd appreciate your advice.

I have a tendency to force solutions to problems, which surprisingly worked OK for getting SE, but mind-wrenching effort probably won't fly for concentration practice and the subtler insight needed for higher Paths. I'm also considering metta practice to cultivate some patience. Thank you in advance for your help.

"Even in mildly complex systems, any outcome is the wrong thing to target, with the process being where the focus should be."
-some zerohedge poster

Let me preface this by saying that I haven't acheived any paths; so to what extent this may or may not impact what I have to say below is beyond me.

If you willfully/volitionally try to ditch vitakka/vicara to move from 1st jhana to 2nd jhana before the time is ripe you'll just fall backwards out of 1st jhana, and too much "doing" of this sort is just the type of thing that makes one need to vitakka/vicara to begin with.

Below this "too much doing" threshold, you do have a bit of wiggle room to experiment with backing off on the vitakka/vicara. The more concentrated you are, the greater the clarity with which you can discern the vitakka/vicara you're applying and small volitional easing up on siad factors.

You might want to try a resolve. When you first sit, resolve that, once settled in 1st jhana to move into 2nd jhana. Then just sit and let things take thier course. It's also possible, while in 1st jhana, to oh so subtly intend or resolve to move to 2nd jhana, but more than just a hint of this become again too much doing.

I hope this helps.

Eric

Hi Matthew - great photo (if that's a guinness)

+1 what Dan and Eric are saying to you and what you know for yourself: "I have a tendency to force solutions to problems."

With concentration practices anything can happen, so it's good to just have that training (basically sitting and focusing relaxedly with care and non-assertion with the object) and each person's discernment will develop, "Was that experience beneficial and useful to me/others?" This is just like a pitcher learning to throw, then learning what makes a curve ball by the mind learning what the hand is doing. In meditation, the mind is learning what the mind is doing.

If we just adhere to our object (I'm a ananapansati fan) with sincere care and relaxedness, not asserting more than this (and that's plenty challenging), concentration develops in a natural way-- a great way. It's very hard to become a good free-styler in any sport/music/endeavor without just experimenting and playing, self-cautioning constantly against natural conceit and hubris (this relates to injury of self and others) which arises with competency.

If you can keep it simple and just do your training pretty regularly, take it up with joy and perseverance, that will be constructed enough. The jhanas are usually immediately obvious to a trainee because as much as we may read about them, it's just really hard for the mind to imagine before-hand what is going to happen: knowing hot stove versus touching hot stove. I'm sure you know these things.

After 1st path[1] metta starts developing whether a person wants it to or not, because, to me (for me), it starts to become painfully obvious where friendliness has been lacking (metta>>mitto: friend)-- the area that can become flooded with metta becomes vast, dwarfing me, awe; the din of concerns that arose before path have subsided just enough to start taking in others actually, awareness that one's own joy is connected to/creating others.

Cheers and good luck!




[edits for clarification]

Some thoughts.
Note the classic description of jhana1 with rapture and pleasure born of seclusion/withdraw. Jhana2 with rapture and pleasure born of concentration/composure.

Vitakka and vicara are replaced with ajjhattam sampasadanam and ekodi-bhavam (inner tranquility/serenity/assurance and unification/singleness of mind/preoccupation).

So try not so much willfully dropping, but cultivating the singleness, oneness, and vitikka vichara will drop.

Thanissaro describes it like this:
"As you work with the breath in this way, you’ll notice that your awareness of the body has two aspects: focused awareness and the background awareness already in your body. The background awareness is simply your receptivity to the full range of sensory input coming in from all the parts of the body. The focused awareness is located at the spot where you’re paying special attention to that input and developing it further. One of the jobs of your evaluation is to get these two aspects of awareness in touch with each other. The background awareness is already there, just like the background breath energy in the body. The question—both with the background awareness and with the background energy—is: Is it full? Remember that, when dealing with the breath, you’re not trying forcefully to pump breath into areas where it’s never been before. You’re simply allowing all the aspects of breath energy to connect. The connectedness is what allows them all to become full. The same principle applies to your awareness: You’re not trying to create new awareness. You want your focused awareness simply to connect with your background awareness so that they form a solid, fully alert whole. As both the breath and the awareness come together in this way, you enter the second jhana."

As to the qualities present, "he ferreted them out one after another. Known to him they arose, known to him they remained, known to him they subsided. He discerned, 'So this is how these qualities, not having been, come into play. Having been, they vanish.' He remained unattracted & unrepelled with regard to those qualities, independent, detached, released, dissociated, with an awareness rid of barriers. He discerned that 'There is a further escape,' and pursuing it there really was for him."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/mn/mn.111.than.html

I really appreciate these fantastic replies! Some of the difficulty I experienced with concentration may have been a side effect of trying to work on samatha too soon, instead of observing the intense cycles at the beginning of Review, which were really energetic when I wrote the OP. A couple of weeks ago my mind wanted to investigate and deconstruct everything, including the breath. Things are a bit calmer now, and dialing down the effort has worked well.

For hardening the jhanas, do you recommend remaining in and hardening the 1st before proceeding to work at subsequent levels?

Katy, the beer is a Misty Mountain at Founders Brewing in Grand Rapids, MI. More American brown ale than Irish dry stout, but delicious.

Thanks again for your help, everyone.

If you try to suck the maximum juice from a jhana from full breathing then it is very easy to not be able to go to the next jhana.
If on the other hand you do more natural shallower breaths, the factors of each jhana wont arise so prominently and you can slink off to the next jhana, and then the next.

Thanks Joshua. Quoting a Kenneth Folk post from this thread that may also prove useful:

"I'd like to clarify about the 'bathing in jhana' instruction you quoted, because understanding it is fundamental to jhana practice. Whether we think of it as active or passive, the job is to let yourself steep in the sensations as they become ever deeper, more solid, more blissful, etc. Whereas you may have entered the jhana by meditating on the breath, a kasina object, a mantra, or any other object, at this point the jhana itself is the object. Everything else is dropped as you allow yourself to be overcome by the pleasant sensations of the jhana. You are a sponge, soaking up the sensations. We are talking about the samatha technique, so there is no effort to investigate or penetrate the object (vipassana). And this "bathing in the jhana" technique is not unique to any particular jhana. This is the way to deepen and solidify ANY jhana, so for those who are getting just a whiff of jhana and would like to go deeper, this is a powerful instruction."

Also, I don't recommend trickily jumping across jhanas. Like a dodgy jenga puzzle it all collapses to the latest strong point if they are not built up properly by 'bathing' well in each. But the precaious leapfrog technique has helped to pick off a couple of fruitions, once you get to eighth jhana it almost doesn't matter if you are built up properly or not.

I've seen it lines up to where your place is on the insight cycle, the effort element, that is. First vipassana jhana it is very hard to get into jhana and requires much effort. The other vipassanas are far more conducive to jhana in general. That is why I think early nanas are much nastier than the 'dukkha' nanas, because in dukkhas you can use jhana at least, even if highly disturbing elements penetrate the concentration, it is still concentration! Which is nice.