I wasn’t going to post this experience up as it was so weird, real and sounds insane that I was embarrassed but over the past couple of days since it happened, I thought I should record it because it was such a BIG experience and I can only deduce that it was an A&P event.

BACKGROUND: Been meditating twice daily (jhana 1-4) and mixed noting/contemplation through the day with longer meditations on the weekends.
I had experienced a 'black blip' whilst getting out of bed the day before and it was so different (only for a second duration) to anything else I had experienced, I thought it might be fruition (and this stream entry) although I had experienced 2 of these a couple of weeks ago. So was really unclear on what was going on thus my instructor advised to just sit and try meditating with no agenda just to see what happened and eventually the truth of things might become evident.

Straight after 1 hour of straight breath watching then 2.5 hrs of Jhana (1-5) meditation sessions it was late and I lay down to go to sleep but was not tired.Suddenly I found myself in an experience where I was awake with what could be described as bolts of energy being fired into the top/back of my heard (it was so intense that the spot where they were hitting was burning) followed by very strong vibratory energy in a long line shooting up and down my body increasing then decreasing in rate of vibration and sound (almost techno mechanical sounds corresponding to the energy vibrations). Really intense energy that was almost too much to handle. It felt neither good or bad. I felt no fear or happiness or stress. These two events were all consuming and occurred in sequence over and over. Due to the nature of the energy and the sounds and there was a feeling that I was being ‘rebuilt’ – my body actually felt like a car being built or serviced by industrial robots! There were other energy related things happening which I can’t exactly remember but after a while of experiencing this, I was able to move my head and I looked up (was lying on my side during all this) and a ‘being’ (person/female) dull white glow was sitting on the bed next to me smiling and let me know that it was done, there were sexual undertones to this being. I came out of it and looked at the clock and 15 minutes had passed. I didn’t sleep for the rest of the night but it was because I wasn’t tired – I felt intrigued and reviewed the experience but wasn’t freaked out. The next day I was fine, not tired at all and very calm and equanimous but not spaced out and was able to function normally at work. Today I felt really calm and the normal mental chatter and internal emotional stressed responding to what happens through the day were either gone or greatly reduced – actually I feel really good but in a balance and calm and relaxed way.

I would be interested to have some opinions from the experienced folk here.

Hi Rod,

I wouldn't count myself as one 'of the experienced folk here' but reading your account of shooting energy reminded me very much of a similar experience I had in the past around the time of an A&P. I've discussed it before (as part of a larger thread) and paste it here:

"Whilst this process of psychological integration was taking place I started to have stronger physical experiences. By far the most pronounced happened around one week into the retreat as I lay in bed settling down to sleep. Looking back in my dairy I wrote that, “It came and got me last night” in reference to deep feelings of fear that steadily grew in intensity, taking hold of my body in a manner beyond any control. As the fear grew, more and more energy seemed to run up my spine at greater frequencies. I also had an inner visual image of being dragged at increasing speeds through undergrowth, faster and faster until at its peak, with me in a contracted position, something fused in my head; ‘FUZZ!!!’ and I would collapse back onto my bed, covered in sweat, only for the process to happen again. This cycle occurred about 4 or 5 times and each time I felt I was going to visually witness some past event that must explain my fear but just as ‘it’ was about to be revealed, “FUZZ!!!” and I collapsed, only to go through the process again. At some point I finally fell into a fitful sleep.

One thing I would note was that whilst part of me was terrified, on another level I ‘knew’ that it was just something I needed to go through as an internal readjustment to events on the retreat and quite welcomed the process as a sign of something ‘happening’."

Don't know if that helps at all but just thought I would share.

Nick

Hi Nick,

Really appreciate your reply and yes that is helpful - whilst my experience was not a fearful one, there was a certain detached neutrality to it which was really weird given the intensity of it and as if to confirm my suspicions that I was being 'modified' (similar to your experience) A 'being' told me when it was done - weird and inexplicable. So its great to know I am not the only one who has had this weirdness visited upon them (my last A&P was very similar to a 2nd jhana, so this was really out there). The experience going through several iterations is also common between our respective experiences. So thanks Nick - it does point to an A&P and means I can cautiously entertain ideas that I have attained first path - but very cautiously and will keep recording practice over the next weeks/months to shed more truth on the matter.

Hi Rod,

Congratulations, that sounds like a spectacular experience! It definitely sounds like 2nd vipassana jhana to me. Whether that was the A&P event or not...quite probably, but time will tell.

Do you get any sense that you have entered dissolution yet? Is there a change in the body vibrations/ sensations from pleasant to a sort of dissonance? Have you tried sitting for vipassana since, and are you breaking new ground?

You mentioned having a previous A&P, how was that in comparison? If this one was an A&P, it sure sounds like a fresh one rather than retracing old ground. It could be you were mistaken about the first experience, either that or you are on a new insight cycle...

Feel free to tell us more about the possible fruitions and after effects.

Good luck.

Hi Dodge,
Great to hear from you again and thanks for your comments. Yes I am not sure what it is but after experiencing some black out blips over the past couple of weeks, it has been a very eventful few weeks in my practice ( I don't normally have these kinds of experiences). Since I first had the blackout blips and then got a second a couple of weeks later, I have felt really calm and balanced with less mental chatter etc. After this latest 'event' I have felt just as calm but have not been able to meditate over the past couple of days so easily - its been scattered and I have felt like it was not necessary. But this morning was a solid meditation getting into some territory beyond the 4th Jhana. The tricky thing is that I have been using Jhana meditation over the past 5-6 months since my last big experience which was unclear as to whether it was an A&P or just 1-2 Jhana. Since then I have been in jhanas in every meditation and have not had the same intensity or type of experience as I did that first time which is why I think it was an A&P (I have included the description of that experience below).
Using Jhanas (shamata) has meant that I have not been as aware of which nanas I am going through or if I am gong through any at all. I presume I am but hard to know.



I am just logging closely every day now so that over time, the truth of the experience and what it means may become clear.

Hi Rod,

So you are not actually doing any deliberate vipassana practice?

Whatever you are doing, you seem to be making progress. The passage you quoted could have been A&P, or maybe just 2nd jhana, it's hard to tell. Did you experience anything you think might have been DN or EQ afterwards?

You should probably look forward rather than mulling over whether you got path anyway...you know what comes next!

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Hi Dodge,

What I usually do is get to 4th Jhana and insight (vipassana) whilst in 4th Jhana. I usually note sensations and phenomena I see. Off the cushion, I note, notice and contemplate as a mix according to how much attention i have to give to my job at any given time. So vipassana is going on (If thats what you mean) but my experience in meditation is very much wrapped up in Jhanas.

After that first experience, I found it difficult to concentrate in meditation for a couple of weeks after that. I have not really had the intensity of DN experiences that many describe on this website beyond feeling melancholy or irritable for a day occasionally (which is not normal for me) so presume that its bleed through from practice but only occasionally had really troubled meditations

You are right, whatever the case, I need to keep practicing and moving forward.

I haven't been keeping a regular practice log here since you are one of the few who respond to any questions I have. I have a log on KFD which I have been keeping up to date. Thanks for your advice and hope your practice is going well

Hi Rod,

It sounds like you've really got your concentration together, that's great. For a long time I would get thrown out of jhana into first nana if I tried to investigate.

Like you my DN experiences have been no where near as horrible as other people have reported, but it is still obvious when it is happening. It's probably easier to recognize these states when they are more extreme, unfortunately!

A tip if you think you might have achieved fruition in the future is to sit and watch what happens without any intention or manipulation. If you are post-path cycling you should start at A&P, DN, EQ, fruition, over and over without any effort. Of course it might be difficult to distinguish the states at first, but it gives you a chance to learn.

All the best.

Thanks for the tip Dodge - I will try this except at this stage it is hard to tell which nana I am in because they always have been experienced with Shamata Jhana which seems to 'hide' them. I did sit yesterday morning and had a few indications of progress through them - the most obvious was getting intense itchy spots on my face which I have been told are evidence either of 3rd Nana or 9th nana. Last night I sat and the whole sit was very dissonant - the energy was disharmonious and very erratic to the point where it was difficult to get into any stable state so after 1.5 hours, I stopped. This morning the session was really smooth and easy and I think there was a blip and a little wave of tingling directly after - the tingling was clear but the blip was so hard to confirm as it was so quick. So it seems there is movement going on. Thanks for you advice.

yep

crazy energy stuff: basically always a&p

when you say jhana 1-5, got any more descriptions of those?

Thanks Daniel,

Well Jhana 1-4 I have done with Kenneth F together online as I was not sure in the beginning what was what.

1st - and 2nd sit pretty close together and I find 1st pretty hard to stay in for long since the energy is really strong and 'muscular' throughout the body - tending to move in fits and starts rather than smooth flow. 2nd jhana is much more flowing and consistent with rich tingling spreading throughout the body and to me seems to flow up through the back to the head and down behind the eyes circling around somewhere in the torso to complete a kind of loop which is stimulated by breath on the Anapana spot so it becomes like a perpetual cycle of varying intensities until it overflows and pulse through all of me. To intensify I move closed eye focus from looking down my nose for first to middle view for second

3rd Jhana has gotten better but was always a bit elusive to me. Now I move to it from 2nd by keep my closed eye view at middle but changing focus to distance. Then I become aware of the tingling on my skin and how it moves in slow waves up and down the body. There is a cool almost clammy feel to it. This is relaxing and as instructed I keep my view on the perimeter of awareness rather than centre but generally I find skin awareness better than visual for this jhana

4th Jhana I usually move my eye focus to upwards and my awareness to a 360 deg sweep around me at eye level and a broad dome over my head. I hold this and feel the tingling drop away and little pulses representing a step deeper into the state. At some point there is a shift where the feeling in my body below the neck diminishes either completely or to a very slight tingle in my toes. This becomes stable, the feeling is very neutral, peaceful and balanced and I can sit in this for a long time, watching sensations and noting from there. Sometimes it feels like I am deep under water, other times less so. Its a great jhana to be in

What I have called 5th jhana is definitely new territory for me and may just be a substate of 4th or something else - so not making firm claims here. It has become available to me over the past couple of weeks since concentration got stronger after a couple of black blips I experienced (still waiting to see if it was SE) - see earlier post for description. Basically it occured by accident when I was trying to get into 4th Jhana and my mind just jumped through that and went forward and out into space from my head. It settled in a very open, light and stable state with a very expansive feel to it. This was great and I have settle in that state a few times now in preference to 4th jhana and seem to be able to watch and note sensations from there. It doesn't feel as closed and 'underwater' like 4th jhana.

So that's my descriptions of what I understand to be jhana experiences - I am pretty new to all this stuff so not claiming any great authority on this - just experiences. So really appreciate your interest and opinions Daniel and your book/experiences made it possible for me to see how I could do practice in normal life and for that I am very grateful.
Regards Rod