So I had this really interesting dream last night. I went to bed, not really planning on practicing. But I still had some level of investigation going as I drifted off over the next half hour or so (which just reads watching what was going on, like what else is there to do when you're awake and lying still? haha). I wasn't watching for nanas or jhanas or anything, but there was definitely some motion through nanas, with bodily bliss and then some harsh itchy vibrations/feelings.

Anyways, sometime later in the night while I was asleep, I had this really fascinating dream where I was in some kind of basement with people, and there were all these doors. I saw these two girls that were trying to get my attention, and I tried to go to them, but the dream shifted and they were gone. Somewhere along the way, I realized that all the doors were leading to the places I was expecting/intending, so I went up to a door and put a ton of intention on seeing the girls who were trying to get my attention. I opened it, and the dream suddenly shifted and everything was black, there wasn't any body or dream-scape, and I just felt like a mind floating. Everything felt very intense when this happened, and tons of energy and joy came surging over me. I wasn't having a lucid dream, but it definitely had the distinct conscious feeling in a lucid dream. I don't really remember much from the dream except that scene. I've been noticing similar dreams, where there will be a tense, climactic, anxious feeling, then a sudden shift with a lot of energy and that conscious feeling.

Besides having some emotional dreams during DN phases, I've never had much experience with how nanas and jhanas might play out in sleep/dreams. Does this sound like this description matches up to crossing the A&P in a dream?

Oh, there was also this...

I got to work today and started making a mental inventory of things, since I'm relatively new there. I started noting all the various ingredients and tools at a very quick pace, circling around the room, and I realized that the intensity was coming on, with a lot of strong pressure between my eyebrows and an amazing exhilarating feeling in my mind. Not a bad way to start off work... ha ha.

In my experience, the A&P is not a sudden event but something that gradually builds up along with very strong concentration.
I have had several A&P like events while dreaming/lucid dreaming post A&P. 2 nights ago I had a lucid dream within a dream, pretty insane where I was meditating and crazy stuff happened. My advice is to let the dreams do their thing without wasting time on contemplation.

Sometimes the A&P is gradual, but check out the thread "Diagnosing the A&P". It can definitely happen many different ways, with a lot of effort or possibly no conscious effort. I've crossed it while walking around school, doing nothing whatsoever, after building up concentration, after a few minutes of noting, while riding the bus, while working out, asleep (apparently), awake, with effort, without effort, with trying to do so, without trying to do so. Sometimes it lasts hours (rarely for me), other times it lasts 10 minutes, others it lasts one. Not to mention if you've gotten path (I've gotten stream entry at least), you'll cycle automatically, including through the A&P with no effort or intention to do so. There may be an infinite number of A&P events that all appear and play out differently, under varying circumstances, but are still the same insight stage.

Why not contemplate though!? It's interesting to see the variability in the ways that different states and stages can play out, different contexts, different setups, different time frames, different perceptions... etc. If you're in it to meditate and understand experience, I don't see the harm in reviewing experiences and trying to understand them better, especially in terms of which insight stages they could possibly be and what made them come about. Not to mention the value of being able to manipulate/call up states and stages in or out of practice. Not to mention an ideal of trying to be mindful as often as possible!

I haven't gotten path, but my "actual" A&P also happened while strolling around at the retreat. It's also the only A&P I ever had while awake. I did try some hallucinogens and experienced milder A&P like events, but they never altered my baseline like the A&P did. I haven't read much of MCTB yet, so I wasn't sure there are several A&P events, thanks for pointing that out. That would also mean there will be multiple Bhanga's, interesting.

I know it's interesting to see how things play out and it's fun to decipher how the process unfolds itself. I stressed on ignoring dreams because in my experience, my dreams have been over the roof crazy ever since I entered DN. It's extremely hard to interpret what's really going on because dreams are so abstract. Mostly I've had dreams related to shadow/repressed emotions and memories, A&P like phenomena, meditation related phenomena, and the like. When I wake up, I'm like "That was something." ..that's about it. I dont know if there is any way to make anything of it and this is why I just ignore it.

In any case, if this was A&P, you should be in dissolution soon enough.

I feel ya on the dreams, especially during fear-reobservation. I've had some seriously scary and emotionally strong dreams, almost always in that territory. I do agree that repressed emotions play some part in these dreams, probably brought to the surface by the shift from 2nd to 3rd vipassana jhana. Some people who practice say the DN is not that bad for them, but I seem to be one of the people who get really shaken up by the territory. This has gotten much better over the time I've practiced. What works for me is being mindful of times when I have a bigger A&P crossing, and being aware that the changes in thoughts and feelings are part of the territory. Being detached to the glory of the A&P is also helpful. Well, being detached and mindful of everything is basically the key, but as you go deeper, there are more and more subtle ways in which you don't want to let go, and when you get to 3rd vipassana jhana, you're basically faced to let go of a lot in order to get to EQ. Personally, I think the letting go that happens in re-observation to get to EQ is similar (or, the same, depending on how you look at it) to the shift from 3rd to 4th shamatha jhana, so doing jhanas up to 4th and then starting vipassana is also a good route.

I've read some of your posts, and I totally relate to some of your DN experiences. When I started this practice, I had no idea how serious Daniel Ingram was in his book about the dangers of the DN. In times of strong DN'ing, I've dealt with intense feelings of loss and uncertainty, self-hate (strong in misery/disgust), bleakness in life, lack of any point to life, helplessness (related to seeing anatta), etc... from my experience, I'd say that if you can get better at getting to equanimity consistently, the better you'll be able to proceed smoothly through the DN nanas. Once the 3 characteristics start sinking in and you get familiar with the territory, sudden crises and roadblocks become natural, predictable cycles, and you get better at navigating smoothly, applying the right focus, etc...

With the emotional intensity, repressed memories and emotions, that kind of stuff, I find it useful to practice in whatever way you practice mindfulness. It seems to come up for a good reason, as the next thing that surfaces to detach from, and the more your practice can indiscriminately penetrate even the toughest things that come up in meditation/daily life, the more you're able to deal with anything that comes up with less pain and stress.

It's one hell of a ride for me.



That's a great observation. Reminds me of a song : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Tp0r9197uo
For years I read or heard about letting go, but through meditation learnt what it actually means.

A couple of days ago, out of the blue I was having intense stomach aches. This went on and off for 3-4 days. I thought maybe it was my diet. I did my best with WebMD to diagnose what medical issue I could be having, but nothing matched up. On the last night it became so severe that I couldn't sleep. I almost believed that I have an appendix issue and I will need to be operated the next day, that's how severe it was. Luckily the next day it stopped aching completely and by night I was feeling really good, like I'm back to my old self. I was able to appreciate art after a long time. I think this was when I first hit low eq, but I'm still not sure.



This is why I'm glad to be here. It is comforting to know there are other people going through the same thing when almost everyone you know in real life doesn't come close to understanding what's going on. I also experience a lot of laziness and the only thing to do is really push myself into doing what needs to be done.



My take is that if I just do the meditations and keep the process going, the subconscious stuff is always being worked on.
I'm glad I started this at a relatively young age even if it did slow down my worldly progress. The older we get the more things we repress, the more attachments we create, and the more things we have to deal with later on. I agree that mindfulness and acceptance is key to sailing through rough waters, but at the time it is also challenging to do so.