Metta Experiences -- ( Possibly jhana, want your opinions )

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Mitchell K Hardy, modified 10 Years ago at 8/21/13 6:48 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 8/21/13 6:48 PM

Metta Experiences -- ( Possibly jhana, want your opinions )

Posts: 7 Join Date: 4/8/13 Recent Posts
I have been practicing metta meditation for a few months to soothe my temper, and help build concentration. Thus far it has done an excellent job. However, I was just wondering if the DhO would help me out on figuring out where in the jhana map I may be?

So, here is my muddled attempt to describe the experiences that I undergo in the moments when I really get in the groove of my meditation:

Not much intellectualizing going on, mind is calm, subtle bliss but still bliss, my concentration is steady on the feeling of metta permeating from what feels like all of my body. It feels very refreshing, sort of like the moment right when you lay in bed at night after a 12 hour day, and say, "Ahh, I love my bed." (Furthermore, it feels very genuine because all of the well-wishing I do towards people that I actually care about, and I wish for specific things that would make that person have the most fulfillment in life. I wish things for my own self as well, which has showed me how to love myself and not be so self-sacrificing in life.)

I assume I am somewhere in the 2nd-3rd jhanas, albeit pretty "soft" jhanas, because of the sustained attention, bliss, etc.

That said, there is an experience that I have had several times now, and I am most curious about what you all think of it:

As I was preparing to wish something good to happen to my mother, my mind was very determined and energetic, and all of a sudden my mind was super concentrated and the well-wishing seemed to happen all on it's own, with no effort. This has happened 3 or 4 times during different sits, and I am not sure what it really is. Is that a moment of "hard" jhana, or perhaps absorption concentration?

Any help is much appreciated! Thanks!
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Richard Zen, modified 10 Years ago at 8/21/13 7:13 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 8/21/13 7:12 PM

RE: Metta Experiences -- ( Possibly jhana, want your opinion

Posts: 1665 Join Date: 5/18/10 Recent Posts
Sounds like second jhana to me. When the bliss wears off and there's mainly a gladness with equanimity then you've probably hit 3rd jhana.

With the fading away as well of rapture, I dwelt equanimous and, mindful and clearly comprehending, I experienced happiness with the body; I entered and dwelt in the third jhana of which the noble ones declare: "He is equanimous, mindful, one who dwells happily." ~ Sariputta


So happiness without bliss.
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Ian And, modified 10 Years ago at 8/22/13 12:33 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 8/22/13 12:23 AM

RE: Metta Experiences -- ( Possibly jhana, want your opinion

Posts: 785 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
Mitchell K Hardy:
. . . I was just wondering if the DhO would help me out on figuring out where in the jhana map I may be?

So, here is my muddled attempt to describe the experiences that I undergo in the moments when I really get in the groove of my meditation:

Not much intellectualizing going on, mind is calm, subtle bliss but still bliss, my concentration is steady on the feeling of metta permeating from what feels like all of my body. It feels very refreshing, sort of like the moment right when you lay in bed at night after a 12 hour day, and say, "Ahh, I love my bed." . . .

I assume I am somewhere in the 2nd-3rd jhanas, albeit pretty "soft" jhanas, because of the sustained attention, bliss, etc.

Dhyana meditation can be a very subjective experience sometimes, albeit with certain pointed markers which tell the practitioner that he is within the midst of something special. One of those markers is the experience of the arising of rock solid concentration. While most people focus on the discernment of the blissful markers, because of the pleasant sensation it can produce (and because these are mentioned so often in the suttas), they neglect to notice the increase in the ease of concentration on whatever object they are holding in the mind.

If one is not following a classic instruction for its attainment (which may be the case in your case), one may miss the marker in the experience of the second dhyana, which is the experience of the meditation seeming to carry on by itself, effortlessly, without the help of vitakka and vicara (or "directed attention" and "sustained attention"), these two elements having dropped away.

Once the element of piti (elation or rapture) drops away in the third dhyana, the mind enters a less turbulent stage where its quietude gathers on the way toward the fourth level of dhyana wherein the sukkha (joy or happiness) drops altogether away, leaving the mind established in the clarity of an imperturbable state wherein one is able to direct the mind toward any object (or subject) with ease in order to begin experiencing insight about that object. Some refer to this state as appana samadhi, or fixed concentration, because it is very stable and solid and established. When you can achieve this state at will, this is where all your insight practice will be its most fruitful. And awakening lies nearby.

No one can say with any certainty what another has experienced. We can only posit an opinion based on that person's ability to describe the experience. If you can relate to any of the markers described above, then most likely you achieved a dhyana meditation.

Following is another description that may help with making this determination, taken from Thanissaro Bhikku's book The Mind Like Fire Unbound:

'Just as an adept bathman or bathman's apprentice would pour bath powder into a brass basin and knead it together, sprinkling it again & again with water, so that his ball of bath powder — saturated, moisture-laden, permeated within & without — would nevertheless not drip; even so, monks, the monk permeates... this very body with the rapture & pleasure born of seclusion. And as he remains thus earnest, ardent, & intent, any longings related to the household life are abandoned, and with their abandoning his mind gathers & settles inwardly, unified & composed. That is how a monk develops mindfulness immersed in the body.

'And furthermore, with the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters & remains in the second jhāna: rapture & pleasure born of concentration, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance. He permeates & pervades, suffuses & fills this very body with the rapture & pleasure born of concentration, so that nothing of his entire body is unpervaded by rapture & pleasure born of concentration.


Mitchell K Hardy:

That said, there is an experience that I have had several times now, and I am most curious about what you all think of it:

As I was preparing to wish something good to happen to my mother, my mind was very determined and energetic, and all of a sudden my mind was super concentrated and the well-wishing seemed to happen all on it's own, with no effort. This has happened 3 or 4 times during different sits, and I am not sure what it really is. Is that a moment of "hard" jhana, or perhaps absorption concentration?

Most likely. The next question is: Now that you've experienced this and have a much better idea about what it is, are you able to master the experience by getting back there with ease of effort. If not, then your next efforts should be focused on determining how you did this and how you can do it again at will. Once you figure this out, you will have become a master at meditation. Mastering meditation is easy, once you learn how to do it. It is the insight stage that can be so difficult for people to master. Because the mind likes to play tricks on one, and its conditioning can take a while to break down such that one is able to "see things as they are."

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