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High EG -- Focus and intensity question

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High EG -- Focus and intensity question
Answer
9/22/13 11:22 AM
howdy, so i find myself in high eq and the question is one of focus and intensity. when everything is set up..formations are arising, things are buzzing, the field is flashing...where do i go?

do i "try" to pin down the flashing by bearing down and trying to "see" through the cracks? this causes more tension to arise as i feel pinched down into a corner. there are some very interesting effects, strange visuals presented in stark strange ways but does this lead to freedom?

do i just braoden out..taking awider and wider focus and including as much as possible? do i continune noting here?

ron crouch mentioned that at some point only the CCCs are possible as obejects because the "standard" objecst are just too many and quiykly flashing by to take as objects any longer.

thaks team.

tom

RE: High EG -- Focus and intensity question
Answer
9/22/13 11:58 AM as a reply to tom moylan.
tom moylan:
howdy, so i find myself in high eq and the question is one of focus and intensity. when everything is set up..formations are arising, things are buzzing, the field is flashing...where do i go?

do i "try" to pin down the flashing by bearing down and trying to "see" through the cracks? this causes more tension to arise as i feel pinched down into a corner. there are some very interesting effects, strange visuals presented in stark strange ways but does this lead to freedom?

do i just braoden out..taking awider and wider focus and including as much as possible? do i continune noting here?

ron crouch mentioned that at some point only the CCCs are possible as obejects because the "standard" objecst are just too many and quiykly flashing by to take as objects any longer.

thaks team.

tom

Set a very strong intention to get fruition. As far as I can tell the switch is not on this side. Ask for help from your higher self/Buddha nature if you are comfortable with this proposition. It sounds like you are right where you need to be....if you can investigate the moments between do so. If you can experience the 3C's pick the predominent one and see it very clearly and stay with it. Do not force anything...let it happen...
Good luck
~D

RE: High EG -- Focus and intensity question
Answer
9/22/13 1:04 PM as a reply to Dream Walker.
thanks DW. knew i could count on you for some unconventional wisdom.

tom

RE: High EG -- Focus and intensity question
Answer
9/22/13 3:38 PM as a reply to tom moylan.
tom moylan:
howdy, so i find myself in high eq and the question is one of focus and intensity. when everything is set up..formations are arising, things are buzzing, the field is flashing...where do i go?

do i "try" to pin down the flashing by bearing down and trying to "see" through the cracks? this causes more tension to arise as i feel pinched down into a corner. there are some very interesting effects, strange visuals presented in stark strange ways but does this lead to freedom?

do i just braoden out..taking awider and wider focus and including as much as possible? do i continune noting here?

ron crouch mentioned that at some point only the CCCs are possible as obejects because the "standard" objecst are just too many and quiykly flashing by to take as objects any longer.

thaks team.

tom


RELAX and let go of the desire to have something happen. Notice the urges for something to happen and disincline from allowing the mind to flow with them. Allow them to arise and pass tinged with dispassion for them. This then usually allows something to happen. 'You' step out of your own way by ceasing to create more 'you' via the craving for something to happen. Perception of one of the C's could help let go of these urges.

Nick

RE: High EG -- Focus and intensity question
Answer
7/29/14 12:00 AM as a reply to tom moylan.
I'm where Tom was. Very helpful hints on this thread. Thank you!

RE: High EG -- Focus and intensity question
Answer
7/29/14 5:19 AM as a reply to Jenny.
wow...tom is also where tom was ;-)

hi jen,  for me, my practice has moved in the direction of noticing the energetic phenomena, especially the pleasant ones, as being an effect of "clinging".  ie: i like the way it feels.  the solution for me is a "calming" practice.  this entails noticing the energetic sensations and deliberately broadening my scope of attention to the entire physical spectrum while thinkig "calm" and directing my attention to the more sublte sensations.

i have no idea whether this will be helpful to you but its has had good effects for me in weaning me away from being a bliss junkie.

bon chance

tom

RE: High EG -- Focus and intensity question
Answer
7/29/14 9:59 AM as a reply to tom moylan.
tom moylan:
the solution for me is a "calming" practice.  this entails noticing the energetic sensations and deliberately broadening my scope of attention to the entire physical spectrum while thinkig "calm" and directing my attention to the more sublte sensations.

i have no idea whether this will be helpful to you but its has had good effects for me in weaning me away from being a bliss junkie.


High EQ advice is really paradoxical, most advice seems like a contradiction... It's because fruition isn't caused by anything, so really there is nothing you can "do". And remember the EQ state has to happen on it's own during a sit, you can't jump to it, even though you may have been "there" in previous sits. Your meditation will take you where you need to go, to what you need to experience. If you are spending time in earlier stages, there is a reason for that. Those are the stages you need to become intimate with. You can't force progress. The stage of EQ requires a foundation of an EQ-like acceptance of all those earlier stages. Even the dark night nanas can be experienced fully, yet with EQ. Fear is scary but also slightly thrilling despite being scary, for example. Misery is sad and awful but also kinda heartfelt despite being miserable. Etc.

But here's advice anyway, for what it is worth:

It's good not to pursue bliss, although it helps to have spent enough time drenched in it that bliss so it is understood, appreciated, but also seen as not "it" yet not a problem either. For people who tend to be adverse, the best advice is to really drench yourself in the bliss rather than being puritanical about it. You don't get any bonus points from denying naturally arising bliss. Plus, bliss sorta works behind the scenes to soften the kind of petty ambitions and control mechanisms that are still running. It would be ideal, but not necessary, to be able to get into a fairly calm, mildly blissful state where you don't care what will happen, yet you are very interested and intimate with the actual body sensations and mindstream that are appearing. Just letting the groovy field of experience do it's thing, wonderous all by itself.

In High EQ it's sometimes good to spend sometime looking at the mindstream -- thoughts coming and going, even noticing how there are proto-thinking-urges that are sort of subtle incomplete thoughts and assessments of your experience that are very subtle and very elusive. This is a weird no-man's land state that is hard to describe, but it is very interesting. You can "see" thoughts before they become complete thoughts. You can "feel" sensations before they become a discrete, definable sensation.

It's especially interesting to get so close to all these half-formed thoughts and barely registering sensations, so subtle, so difficult to pin down, kinda timeless, kinda positionless, even seeing little piece of experience that have the flavor of "my body" "my mind" but it's more like looking in the mirror and seeing it "over there".... and you have to wonder, what is noticing all of this?

RE: High EG -- Focus and intensity question
Answer
7/29/14 8:49 PM as a reply to x x.
X X:
Your meditation will take you where you need to go, to what you need to experience. If you are spending time in earlier stages, there is a reason for that. Those are the stages you need to become intimate with. You can't force progress. The stage of EQ requires a foundation of an EQ-like acceptance of all those earlier stages. 

Second week in June I finally pulled out of a DN/depression so horrific that I was not able to practice during the months that it reigned, except for 30-minute sits on Fridays with my meditation group at work. I wouldn't say at all that I arrived at any acceptance of what I went through. It was quite intolerable. I went on antidepressants, in fact, for the first time in 15 years. So during low EQ I really expected, almost, to fall back pretty rapidly. Instead I seemed to go up to middle-to-high EQ. Maybe my lack of expectation that I could stay in EQ helped me stay this long? Who knows.

Last night I stayed up late reading as many threads as I could find here giving advice about EQ stage. Besides the paradoxes you speak of, I realized from reading that, oddly, I've been avoiding looking at what I'm most supposed to look at during this stage: what I think of as myself, thought, peace, ease, resistence, and even death--all these broader abstract "objects." When I meditate now, it is pretty strange in retrospect, though it feels ordinary while ongoing. I don't know at all, or don't remember, what I should be attending to, often. I am noticing what I think are formations. Even though what I see/sense is really rather dramatic, I nonetheless feel almost bored after sitting with them night after night. I'm not noticing bliss. It is more just an emotionless watching. I have tried a few times to find "myself," but as soon as I try, it feels like a strangely exhausting struggle and I go right back to focussing out or over there. Even though I've not been successful at turning on myself as an object, as soon as I turn back to focussing "over there" I sense a self/center/subject! That in itself is pretty interesting, now that I articulate it here.

RE: High EG -- Focus and intensity question
Answer
7/29/14 9:32 PM as a reply to Jenny.
You got it Jen. Over there and self are sort of mutually created. To have an over there, it seems like we need an over here observing it. But, curiously, how we have an over here keeps changing.

There's no need to look for anything special, just keep sensing how we create a sense of "position" in every moment. We create this by momentarily and very subtly identifying with something. We "are" our thoughts, our sense of calm, the sense of space in which objects occur, as a sense of knowing, or even just a body sensation. We're we are "located" or "identified" or "posititoned" keeps changing. No need to try and follow it or go somewhere to look for it. It's always there as a kind of sense of self/center/subject.

Spend some time getting use to that. Maybe 15 or 20 minutes or so. Then spend about 5 or 10 minutes gently wondering, how can this be seen if "I" am the self/center/subject?

This is higher-energy stuff than plain old follow the breath meditation or noting, so it's better to have several short sits than one long sit. It's like letting an iron get hot and then hitting it for a few minutes. Don't leave it too long in the fire. Don't hit it too long either. Just do the experiment a few times a day. 




 

RE: High EG -- Focus and intensity question
Answer
7/29/14 11:43 PM as a reply to x x.
X X:
There's no need to look for anything special, just keep sensing how we create a sense of "position" in every moment. We create this by momentarily and very subtly identifying with something. We "are" our thoughts, our sense of calm, the sense of space in which objects occur, as a sense of knowing, or even just a body sensation. We're we are "located" or "identified" or "posititoned" keeps changing. No need to try and follow it or go somewhere to look for it. It's always there as a kind of sense of self/center/subject. 

Aha! These words resonate! This is it--yes, it keeps shifting, like continually reshuffling strategy of creating this self! I have sensed this but didn't know it until these words for it! How strange!

X X:

Spend some time getting use to that. Maybe 15 or 20 minutes or so. Then spend about 5 or 10 minutes gently wondering, how can this be seen if "I" am the self/center/subject? . . . This is higher-energy stuff than plain old follow the breath meditation or noting, so it's better to have several short sits than one long sit. 
Brilliant! Also--you are absolutely right about short sits. I actually intinctively have shortened them and found them more productive that way. 

Thank you for your helpful words--this really, really clicks! 

Jenny