When I do concentrate practice I focus primarily on the sensation of the breath at the tip of my nose. I find that I can modify my concentration to put closer to 100% of my focus there or less. When I put less I feel that I am more able to be aware of thoughts developing sooner and one of the things I like to do, I refer to as "cutting". As I notice a thought begin to develop I immediately just squash it and return to my concentration practice. I find that the more I do this the more I want to forget about the object of my concentration and just sit in open awareness as this practice seems to quickly subdue all thought. It is a very pleasant place and seems to be very "deep." However I wonder if I'm getting off track and I should simply re-engage with my object of concentration to continue to try and develop stronger concentration skills. I appreciate any advice, thanks!

Hi Jason,

Welcome to the DhO.

With regard to your first post, you're asking a blind question.

What I mean by "blind question" is that we have no context to begin to understand the question and who is asking it.

Are you a beginner? Intermediate? Something other?

How long have you been practicing? And what goal have you with regard to the practice (what do you wish to accomplish, if anything)?

Any background in Dhamma study?

What problems, if any, have you encountered yet in your practice? (For example, beginners usually have a problem with what is called "monkey mind." Where the mind just jumps around uncontrollably, and they cannot establish concentration on a single object. However, you don't seem to be having that problem. That is a good thing!)

From your post, you sound as though you are an experienced meditator. But, we don't know that until you give us more detail.


I'm taking you at your word with regard to the above comments and descriptions. In other words, you say you are able to do these things, okay, let's start from there.

As far as #1 is concerned, this is a little over the head of most beginners to do. But is a very good skill to have developed. Congratulations! This is an advanced skill.

Regarding #2, this sounds as though you are able to reach samadhi relatively easily. This, too, is a very good skill to have developed. This, too, is an advanced skill.

Regarding #3, How much stronger concentration skills do you want to develop? Sounds as though they are pretty strong as they are right now. This seems to indicate you have no one to guide you (which may be the reason you posted the question).

This is why I asked the questions above, in order to be able to determine more about the context of your practice, where you see that you would like to take it and so forth. Depending on how you answer those questions, you may have already developed enough concentration to be able to dive into insight practice.

You see, it helps if those you are asking questions of know a little more about your background before we go around making recommendations about what we think you ought to do. If you're as developed and skilled as you seem to imply by this post, then that would affect the kind of advice we might give.

Hi Ian,

Thank you for your thoughtful reply. Well, I'm 36 now and began meditating when I was 17 and seriously when I was 22. By the time I was 25 I had developed a 6hr per day practice (Vajrayana) that included a large amount of time practicing shamatha but also doing other practices. During this time I also had a 40 hr. per week job and a fiancee. After about a year at this pace I totally burned out. Over the last ten years I have gone long periods of time doing no practice at all and other periods of really intense practice again. More recently I've been trying to find some balance with it and stick to 30-90 minutes per day of pure shamatha practice. To be honest I've never really had a teacher to work closely with and have no idea as to my skill level. I feel like I made a lot of progress very fast in my early years of practice and even if I take long breaks of not meditating it's very easy for me to drop right back in when I start again.

In terms of my goals of developing concentration, I still feel like I have great room for improvement and I don't really completely understand Insight practices very well. In terms of the "cutting" practice I described, it is kind of something I have discovered on my own and don't really remember reading about so I was unsure if I was getting off track. At the same time it seems to really work for me. Since I don't have a teacher, once I found this site, I was looking for guidance as to whether I should continue to deepen this practice or stick to one pointed concentration.

As far as Insight practices go, I'm only about halfway through MCTB but still a bit confused. Noting 5-15 sensations per second seems almost superhuman to me.

Thanks again!

Hi Jason,

Thank you for filling in more of the blanks. Now I have a much better picture of the person with whom I am speaking. It makes a big difference (especially when dealing with people over the Internet, as opposed to face to face where such questions can be more quickly and efficiently handled).

From a meditation guide's perspective, you are an ideal student to be working with at this time in your development. You have some experience in life. You've been meditating (off and on according to your description) for the past 14-19 years. And most importantly, you've been able to develop and advance your ability to meditate (which is really like hitting the motherlode – to use mining terminology – in terms of what an experienced guide will be able to help you achieve). In other words, you're like a flower that is just waiting to blossom. It is just a matter of guiding you toward deepening your realization of this teaching and that teaching before you begin to be able to put it all together in your mind.

It seems as though you've been influence by Tibetan meditation instruction (and perhaps even teachings). I've studied Tibetan Buddhism a bit and came away very impressed. What I eventually ended up going with was the Theravadin school in terms of practice and Dhamma study. I found it to be more compatible with being able to understand the original intent of the teachings that have come down to us from Siddhattha Gotama. I also found it to be very, very effective in its simplicity.

I tell you this because I want you to understand some of the background from which I come. So, you can do with that as you see fit.


That last thing you mention here is the reason you stand a chance of making rapid progress if given and following through with good instruction. Daniel's book has a lot of good instruction and many insightful suggestions. It is one source. I prefer the suttas, which, despite seeming to appear somewhat opaque and repetitious at points, actually provides a better root grounding in the fundamentals of what Gotama taught in addition to being insightful in many areas that Daniel's book overlooks.

Thirty to 90 minutes per day (my preference is 60 to 90 minutes) is plenty of time for someone with your level of achievement in meditation ability to make progress on the path. Samatha is developed primarily in order to be able to supply the mind with the requisite concentration ability to begin insight (vipassana) practice. You cannot begin to discover insight about phenomena until and unless you are able to bring the mind to stillness and to maintain focus upon an object in order that you are able to begin to see and distinguish how the mind works in the background, like being able to watch the subconscious mind act and react in order to discover how your particular mind processes experiences.

When everything is said and done, this is the essence of insight practice: to be able to watch the body and how we react to it; to watch vedana (the arising and subsiding of the affective faculty of likes, dislikes, and neutral feeling) and how these feelings color our perception of reality; to watch the arising and subsiding of mind states (like anger, sadness, happiness, joy, greed, lust etc.) in order to gain insight into the mechanisms causing their arising and passing away; and to watch dhammas (mental phenomena) like the five hindrances, the five aggregates and their connection with the six sense spheres in their arising and passing away. What I have just described is a practice known as satipatthana, or the establishment of mindfulness over the body, feeling, mind states, and dhammas.

A person who knows and is able to distinguish these four areas of mental and physical experience will more quickly come to a realization of the Dhamma that Gotama taught, which is subsumed in the teaching on dependent co-arising (paticca samuppada).


If you are able to enter into samadhi at will, you have developed the requisite ability of concentration to be able to proceed on to insight meditation. However, I will leave that decision to you, since you know what is best in your particular case.

One way to begin bringing down the barriers to understanding insight practice can be to read and contemplate a few of the suttas which delve into this practice from a waking conscious level instead of a meditative level. And I am not speaking here about the more obvious suttas such as Mindfulness of Breathing (MN 118) or either of the Satipattana Suttas (MN 10 and DN 22). Any of the non-meditation discourses (such as the Anatta-lakkhana Sutta, SN 22.59,* "The Discourse on the Characteristic of Not-Self") that requires you to contemplate it deeper in order to understand its significance will do. You can even read a passage before your sitting, and then contemplate it further during your sit. You will be amazed at the insight that you can discover by using this method.

[*Note: In the sutta I linked to, the word "determinations" in the translation refers to sankharas or volitional mental formations. The discourse itself is tracing through the five aggregates in order to point out to the bhikkhus that there is no self within each of these aggregates to which they may cling. BTW, if you find this method of practice fruitful, I recommend investing in the Wisdom Publication editions of the Samyutta Nikaya, Majjhima Nikaya, Digha Nikaya, and the Anguttara Nikaya for a more complete explanation of the discourses covered – contained in the introductions to the various sections and in the footnotes. The translations themselves are also somewhat better than those that can be obtained online. Just a personal preference for clarity's sake.]


The "cutting" practice that you describe which you found on your own was found through your own insight as a result of your practice! It is good that you are paying attention to these things and discovering methods that work for you. I discovered that very same method that you described in my own practice. It amazed me the first few times I tried it and it worked. I had never been able to do that before. It marked the beginning of my ability to advance in the practice. And, no, you are not getting off track by using that practice. Because it will help you to still the mind when it becomes restless, allowing you to refocus on an object on which and about which you are practicing to gain insight.


Don't be too discouraged by not being able to note 5-15 sensations per second. Noting, the way it is taught using the Mahasi method (which is the method that Daniel explains in his book), is meant to help one increase their general mindfulness and ability to recognize subtle phenomena. It is a hardcore practice and can be very strenuous. It is also meant to help increase one's concentration ability. Noting just means that you are aware of the sensations as they occur, not that you need to mentally (verbally) note each one as they are occurring. To note, in this context, means to know or "become aware of." There are other methods that one can practice just as well. For example, simple awareness of the breath will help one to re-establish mindfulness once the mind begins to wander during the day.

I don't know whether or not that will help you. Although perhaps there is a thing or two you can take away from it.

In peace,
Ian

Thank you so much. Yes, this is very helpful. I will read over what you've written and check out the links and see how I can apply this to my practice. Your description of Insight practice is very helpful and I do think I'm at a place where I can begin to do this. If you don't mind, I'll try and report back on my results after some time. I'm especially grateful for the encouragement that 30-90 minutes per day of meditation practice is sufficient. I tend to give myself a hard time for not practicing long enough and then push myself to do too much and burn out. I've got 3 kids and so it's definitely not possible now any ways and so I'm trying to take a more balanced approach to it. Thanks again!

As you get deeper into the practice, you may find that you want to up the minimum to closer to 60 minutes in order to hang out in the insight mode a little longer. It comes in very handy for practical everyday problem solving. You'll begin to see what I mean when I say that having a quiet and still mind helps to increase the clarity available for deeper insight into matters that you may be contemplating.


Balanced is good.

If you get to the point in your insight practice where you are thinking of purchasing a few of the translated discourses, here's a few ideas to help you out when deciding which to obtain first. I've posted a Most Essential books thread where you can find some excellent source material for your practice.

For discourses on meditation and the technology of meditation, the best volume to use is the Majjhima Nikaya. There are some very insightful suttas there with excellent footnotes to help further explain the concepts in more depth.

For discourses on gaining more clarity about the Dhamma itself, there is nothing better than looking into the volumes containing the older discourses (meaning probably closer to what was actually said by Gotama) such as the Samyutta Nikaya and the Anguttara Nikaya. These volumes (especially the Samyutta) go into more depth with regard to how Gotama actually taught the concepts of anicca, anatta, and dukkha and how they relate to dependent co-arising. Very insightful to read and to contemplate.

For a variety of reasons, I've left the Digha Nikaya for last, as it can tend to be (in places) somewhat opaque to modern readers, and yet it contains some very important discourses that every student of the Dhamma ought to be exposed to. Not the least of which of these is the Mahanidana Sutta (DN 15; The Great Discourse on Origination) which is the discourse wherein Gotama describes dependent co-arising. I use the term "co-arising" because it is more descriptive of what occurs than the term "origination." When you can see this aspect of co-arising taking place within the processes of the mind, it brings this teaching to life in a way that no other will.

Other very important suttas in the Digha to become aware of include the Brahmajala Sutta (DN 1; The Supreme Net of Views) which expounds on the 62 wrong views that worldlings can have about reality; the Mahaparinibbana Sutta (DN 16; The Great Passing, The Buddha's Last Days) for what it tells us about the man and his integrity to maintain his doctrine of truth as the guiding force that the monks should always follow and keep in mind rather than a personality in the form of a successor, which he declined to appoint; The Kevaddha Sutta (DN 11; About Kevaddha, What Brahma Didn't Know) which contains at the end a very insightful description (and clue) to the attainment of nibbana, what it means; The Tevijja Sutta (DN 13; The Threefold Knowledge, The Way to Brahma) which provides an insight into the brahmanical tradition with which Gotama had to contend, showing how he reasoned with two young Brahmins concerning their confusion about how to attain fellowship (or union) with Brahma (which is not, of course, the goal of the Dhamma that he taught); and, of course, the Mahasatipatthana Sutta (DN 22; The Greater Discourse on the Establishment of Mindfulness) which formed the basis for its sister sutta in the Majjhima Nikaya (MN 10; The Satipatthana Sutta); detailed instructions for mindful awareness of breathing and so on are given.

Of the other books listed in that Essential Books thread, those written by Ven. Analayo and Ven. Nanananda are especially insightful, if you are of an intellectual bent and enjoy exploring these concepts in more depth.

That should keep you busy for a few years (just kidding, although not really). There are also free PDFs available that can be downloaded that may help you to begin making more sense of the teachings. I especially like the essays and books that Thanissaro Bhikkhu has put out. Very insightful material.

In peace,
Ian