Dark Night Pro Tips - Discussion
Dark Night Pro Tips
ivory, modified 10 Years ago at 9/26/14 2:04 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 9/26/14 1:46 PM
Dark Night Pro Tips
Posts: 199 Join Date: 9/11/14 Recent Posts
Ok, so I thought I'd start a thread and post about some of the things that have helped me immensely in dealing with the DN. Some of the stuff that others post resonates with my experience, and some absolutely does not. That said, other's mileage may vary here. But if you're stuck, this may help.
I have been residing in Equanimity more and more these days. There have been minor/brief bouts of negativity and dissatisfaction, but nothing too bad. This is the happiest I've ever been in my life, ever (that I know of). And, it's getting easier to see how and what causes me to fall back into DN.
I won't reflect too far back. So I'll to stick with recent experiences and insights. I would like to come back and report as I get clearer on things. But only after I get more experience.
1. On dealing with intense DN spells (misery and disgust). Lying down on my bed, breathing, and ignoring the content of mind is what gets me through this. I focus on the connection between in breath and out breath only. I'm not trying to quiet the mind, or concentrate, or escape, I'm simply IGNORING thought until the DN spell passes. And yes, it's important to remember, "This will pass!". After 10-100 times through DN (LOL), you start to realize that it does pass. I've also had success riding my bike and going on walks, but the key is to keep ignoring thought. Some say noting is a good way of dealing with this stuff, but if you really break it down, what you're actually doing is ignoring thought without straining or forceful / unnatural effort.
2. Lately what I've been doing in EQ is noticing how much I love everything that I'm doing and how amazing everything is. I love cleaning, cooking, eating meals, working, taking naps, talking to my room mates, going on walks, driving in my car, and relaxing. Basically what's this has done for me is break down my attachment to specific things. If I can love anything, then it doesn't matter what comes or goes. I no longer need to fear loss, or assert control over the future (which I don't actually have anyways). I can enjoy each moment thoroughly, and the next, and the next. I can't begin to explain how powerful this has been.
3. I've shifted all of my chores and errands to the weekend so I don't have to spend my day through the work week worrying, stressing, or feeling overwhelmed by obligations. I have also stopped making unnecessary commitments, and instead, moving spontaneously, honoring how I feel in the moment. This has cleared my mind immensely.
4. I stopped going out, and I stopped trying to add more shit to my life. No more new hobbies, no chasing girls, routines, practices, and no more looking for things outside of my experience to be happy. Now that all the "doing" has come to a stand still, the mind is clear, and this allows me to see HOW fear (in it's myriad forms) arises as it arises. Now I can get to the root of what's causing my suffering. The difference is night and day. On a stormy sea you can't detect the cause of, much less see, a ripple. But on a calm, waveless pond, you can detect the most subtle of disturbances.
5. In the last point I mentioned staying home. Solitude. I spend my time at home indulging in simple/clean pleasures, relaxing, and just being as cozy as possible. I've been treating myself like a precioius child. Loads of amounts of self care. Cooking and eating healthy food, drinking water, cleaning and doing chores, decorating, taking hot showers, relaxing, and taking naps. This has been massively satisfying.
I'm not real sure about developing concentration or doing inquiry/vippassana at this stage. Hopefully soon I'll get clearer on this. In DN, I have not found any amount of meditation or inquiry useful at all. My experience has been that the more I meditate, the more attached I become to it, and throughout the day I think about doing meditation at home rather than engaging in what I'm doing. I have yet in all my years of practice found formal meditation useful at all (except maybe a handful of times).
That's all I got for now.
I have been residing in Equanimity more and more these days. There have been minor/brief bouts of negativity and dissatisfaction, but nothing too bad. This is the happiest I've ever been in my life, ever (that I know of). And, it's getting easier to see how and what causes me to fall back into DN.
I won't reflect too far back. So I'll to stick with recent experiences and insights. I would like to come back and report as I get clearer on things. But only after I get more experience.
1. On dealing with intense DN spells (misery and disgust). Lying down on my bed, breathing, and ignoring the content of mind is what gets me through this. I focus on the connection between in breath and out breath only. I'm not trying to quiet the mind, or concentrate, or escape, I'm simply IGNORING thought until the DN spell passes. And yes, it's important to remember, "This will pass!". After 10-100 times through DN (LOL), you start to realize that it does pass. I've also had success riding my bike and going on walks, but the key is to keep ignoring thought. Some say noting is a good way of dealing with this stuff, but if you really break it down, what you're actually doing is ignoring thought without straining or forceful / unnatural effort.
2. Lately what I've been doing in EQ is noticing how much I love everything that I'm doing and how amazing everything is. I love cleaning, cooking, eating meals, working, taking naps, talking to my room mates, going on walks, driving in my car, and relaxing. Basically what's this has done for me is break down my attachment to specific things. If I can love anything, then it doesn't matter what comes or goes. I no longer need to fear loss, or assert control over the future (which I don't actually have anyways). I can enjoy each moment thoroughly, and the next, and the next. I can't begin to explain how powerful this has been.
3. I've shifted all of my chores and errands to the weekend so I don't have to spend my day through the work week worrying, stressing, or feeling overwhelmed by obligations. I have also stopped making unnecessary commitments, and instead, moving spontaneously, honoring how I feel in the moment. This has cleared my mind immensely.
4. I stopped going out, and I stopped trying to add more shit to my life. No more new hobbies, no chasing girls, routines, practices, and no more looking for things outside of my experience to be happy. Now that all the "doing" has come to a stand still, the mind is clear, and this allows me to see HOW fear (in it's myriad forms) arises as it arises. Now I can get to the root of what's causing my suffering. The difference is night and day. On a stormy sea you can't detect the cause of, much less see, a ripple. But on a calm, waveless pond, you can detect the most subtle of disturbances.
5. In the last point I mentioned staying home. Solitude. I spend my time at home indulging in simple/clean pleasures, relaxing, and just being as cozy as possible. I've been treating myself like a precioius child. Loads of amounts of self care. Cooking and eating healthy food, drinking water, cleaning and doing chores, decorating, taking hot showers, relaxing, and taking naps. This has been massively satisfying.
I'm not real sure about developing concentration or doing inquiry/vippassana at this stage. Hopefully soon I'll get clearer on this. In DN, I have not found any amount of meditation or inquiry useful at all. My experience has been that the more I meditate, the more attached I become to it, and throughout the day I think about doing meditation at home rather than engaging in what I'm doing. I have yet in all my years of practice found formal meditation useful at all (except maybe a handful of times).
That's all I got for now.
Elijah Smith, modified 10 Years ago at 9/28/14 9:37 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 9/28/14 9:37 PM
RE: Dark Night Pro Tips
Posts: 71 Join Date: 4/14/13 Recent Posts
May I ask what makes you think that you were experiencing a spiritual dark night rather than depression?
I ask because it seems a little surprising to hear that you think not meditating was the most useful route, and that you were able to move to equanimity through mostly lifestyle changes rather than through meditation.
I ask because it seems a little surprising to hear that you think not meditating was the most useful route, and that you were able to move to equanimity through mostly lifestyle changes rather than through meditation.
Not Tao, modified 10 Years ago at 9/28/14 9:57 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 9/28/14 9:55 PM
RE: Dark Night Pro Tips
Posts: 995 Join Date: 4/5/14 Recent Posts
@ Elijah: I think it'd be interesting to ask everyone here the same question. Perhaps there is a meditation related Dark Night that has nothing to do with depression and has no real cause - but I think most of the posts I've seen on here about the DN are actually more related to a bad mix of unresolved emotional problems and heightened concentration ability. In this case, quitting meditation for a while and resolving the problems is probably a good idea. Or, at least, switching to calm abiding meditation and using the concentration power to navigate out of the "unskillful" states.
ivory, modified 10 Years ago at 9/29/14 1:07 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 9/29/14 12:54 AM
RE: Dark Night Pro Tips
Posts: 199 Join Date: 9/11/14 Recent Posts
Hey Elija,
I didn't say not meditating was the most useful route. I still do and was meditating, just not as much as I used to long time ago. And, even though I wasn't putting as much time into formal meditation, mindfulness was still there. I still stay rooted in the body throughout the day. I still notice thoughts and emotions arising. There is still insight and there is still curiosity about my day to day experience. I'm still able to make skillful life changes as a result of that insight.
Consider the possibility that lifestyle changes may have occurred as a result of meditation/mindfulness.
As for your first question, DN started for me while contemplating song lyrics I was listening to at the time, "There's nothing good, because nothing lasts. All that comes, it comes here to pass." From there, I just started noticing the truth those words.
I knew very little about Buddhism and nothing of the 3C's.
My experience was an ongoing awareness of impermanence and dissatisfaction of all circumstances in life, in addition to a dissolution of the mind, body, and worldly experience. It was absolute horror. I exhausted myself trying to find meaning or something that I could enjoy. But none of the things I used to enjoy were cutting it.
I think that last bit is one main difference between depression and DN. In depression you are sit on your ass. In DN you scramble like a crazy person trying to find meaning or value.
I was horrified. I didn't know what was happening so I started researching online and talking to spiritual teachers. One teacher emailed MTCB to help me understand what I was going through.
I didn't say not meditating was the most useful route. I still do and was meditating, just not as much as I used to long time ago. And, even though I wasn't putting as much time into formal meditation, mindfulness was still there. I still stay rooted in the body throughout the day. I still notice thoughts and emotions arising. There is still insight and there is still curiosity about my day to day experience. I'm still able to make skillful life changes as a result of that insight.
Consider the possibility that lifestyle changes may have occurred as a result of meditation/mindfulness.
As for your first question, DN started for me while contemplating song lyrics I was listening to at the time, "There's nothing good, because nothing lasts. All that comes, it comes here to pass." From there, I just started noticing the truth those words.
I knew very little about Buddhism and nothing of the 3C's.
My experience was an ongoing awareness of impermanence and dissatisfaction of all circumstances in life, in addition to a dissolution of the mind, body, and worldly experience. It was absolute horror. I exhausted myself trying to find meaning or something that I could enjoy. But none of the things I used to enjoy were cutting it.
I think that last bit is one main difference between depression and DN. In depression you are sit on your ass. In DN you scramble like a crazy person trying to find meaning or value.
I was horrified. I didn't know what was happening so I started researching online and talking to spiritual teachers. One teacher emailed MTCB to help me understand what I was going through.
ivory, modified 10 Years ago at 9/29/14 8:14 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 9/29/14 1:03 AM
RE: Dark Night Pro Tips
Posts: 199 Join Date: 9/11/14 Recent PostsNot Tao:
@ Elijah: I think it'd be interesting to ask everyone here the same question. Perhaps there is a meditation related Dark Night that has nothing to do with depression and has no real cause - but I think most of the posts I've seen on here about the DN are actually more related to a bad mix of unresolved emotional problems and heightened concentration ability. In this case, quitting meditation for a while and resolving the problems is probably a good idea. Or, at least, switching to calm abiding meditation and using the concentration power to navigate out of the "unskillful" states.
Could be. I suspect that unresolved emotions often accompany DN. I believe this to be true in my case. Once the illusion of self starts breaking down on the mental level, emotions just can't be held down in the same way they used to. They just start bubbling up.
Not Tao, just out of curiosity, how do you differentiate between DN and unresolved emotional problems? And, have you been through DN yourself?
I'm not sure about concentration, I didn't have a concentration practice.
Not Tao, modified 10 Years ago at 9/29/14 1:17 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 9/29/14 1:17 PM
RE: Dark Night Pro Tips
Posts: 995 Join Date: 4/5/14 Recent Posts
Well, I just try to mimic the language other people are using based on my experiences. I don't know that I've dealt with what Daniel calls the DN. I've definately dealt with a lot of crippling anxiety over the years, and it did seem to get worse for a time after I experience a kind of jhana event for the first time around New Years. I felt like it was similar to what you were experiencing which is why I chimed in. You might not think you have a concentration practice, but any kind of meditation is concentration practice, really. If you weren't meditating at all ever, then you can probably say you're just dealing with depression - but I think depression is also a kind of concentration practice. The jhanas are "absorptions" into positive states. Depression and anxiety is just absorption into negative states. This is probably why depressed people have the dramatic spiritual transformation stories - they finally learn that positive absorption is possible and thier concentration is so good already that they just need to learn how to direct it.
I really couldn't tell you what I've experienced or not, though. I find most of the terminology to be confusion or not-quite-matching. There's stuff that still has no explanation at all, too. I like the mystery, so I just judge my progress by whether or not I feel better these days, haha...
I really couldn't tell you what I've experienced or not, though. I find most of the terminology to be confusion or not-quite-matching. There's stuff that still has no explanation at all, too. I like the mystery, so I just judge my progress by whether or not I feel better these days, haha...