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Questions about the The Pre-Vipassana Stages

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A few questions:

1. I have not yet attained stream entry. Would this be considered pre-path or first path? I have crossed the A&P however.

2. With the above taken into consideration, would my insight cycle include the pre-vipassana stages (mind & body, cause & effect, three characteristics)? I ask this because I am beginning to see a recurring theme in my meditations. I am sitting 20 minutes 3 times a day in quick succession, so usually a 20 minute sit, 10-15 minute break, 20 minute sit, break, sit again. I don't have the capacity yet to sit for 60 minutes traight. However, my sits usually go something like this... Start observing the six sense doors, usually hearing and feeling and thinking are most dominant, sometimes get lost in thoughts (no more than 10-15 seconds before I realize this), note "thinking"... Then around the 30-60 minute mark, I begin to clearly see cause & effect in terms of how thinking correlates to a bodily response, triggers a response, but also other sense doors like reacting to bodily tension. This becomes overwhelming during the 40-50 minute mark where my upper chest/delts begin to ache, my upper back, traps, and neck begin to tense up and ache, lots of dull pain. Also the quads and lower back and knees. This could be related to long periods of being in the seated position, but it seems to correlate with the pre-vipassana stages that MCTB describes. During this period I start to kind of twitch and my body contorts (sometimes I do it intentionally, sometimes it feels like I am watching my body react to this stuff).

3. Also I would like some feedback on my practice. Right now my practice consists of noting without the notes. Just simply noticing and observing reality around me, feelings, thoughts, sounds, smells, seeing, touching. Occassionally I'll toss some notes in there especially when the mind hasn't really setlled down yet and I get lost in thought. But I always become aware of this and continue to observe.

Thank you!

RE: Questions about the The Pre-Vipassana Stages
Answer
10/16/14 7:38 PM as a reply to Jake.
Jake WM:
A few questions:

1. I have not yet attained stream entry. Would this be considered pre-path or first path? I have crossed the A&P however.

2. With the above taken into consideration, would my insight cycle include the pre-vipassana stages (mind & body, cause & effect, three characteristics)?

Yes, you always start at ground zero.

I ask this because I am beginning to see a recurring theme in my meditations. I am sitting 20 minutes 3 times a day in quick succession, so usually a 20 minute sit, 10-15 minute break, 20 minute sit, break, sit again. I don't have the capacity yet to sit for 60 minutes traight. However, my sits usually go something like this... Start observing the six sense doors, usually hearing and feeling and thinking are most dominant, sometimes get lost in thoughts (no more than 10-15 seconds before I realize this), note "thinking"... Then around the 30-60 minute mark, I begin to clearly see cause & effect in terms of how thinking correlates to a bodily response, triggers a response, but also other sense doors like reacting to bodily tension. This becomes overwhelming during the 40-50 minute mark where my upper chest/delts begin to ache, my upper back, traps, and neck begin to tense up and ache, lots of dull pain. Also the quads and lower back and knees. This could be related to long periods of being in the seated position, but it seems to correlate with the pre-vipassana stages that MCTB describes. During this period I start to kind of twitch and my body contorts (sometimes I do it intentionally, sometimes it feels like I am watching my body react to this stuff).

Good reporting, this does sound the 1st 3 nyanas.

3. Also I would like some feedback on my practice. Right now my practice consists of noting without the notes. Just simply noticing and observing reality around me, feelings, thoughts, sounds, smells, seeing, touching. Occassionally I'll toss some notes in there especially when the mind hasn't really setlled down yet and I get lost in thought. But I always become aware of this and continue to observe.

This type of noting tends to be referred to a "noticing" and has a more gentle feel. Don't be afraid to go back to a more formal style if you have trouble concentrating, all noting is good noting.Sounds like you are in a groove, good work.

Thank you!

RE: Questions about the The Pre-Vipassana Stages
Answer
10/17/14 12:01 AM as a reply to Jake.
1. I have not yet attained stream entry. Would this be considered pre-path or first path? I have crossed the A&P however.


This would be considered pre-path, but you're working on getting 1st path.

RE: Questions about the The Pre-Vipassana Stages
Answer
10/17/14 5:23 AM as a reply to Jake.
3. Also I would like some feedback on my practice. Right now my practice consists of noting without the notes. Just simply noticing and observing reality around me, feelings, thoughts, sounds, smells, seeing, touching. Occassionally I'll toss some notes in there especially when the mind hasn't really setlled down yet and I get lost in thought. But I always become aware of this and continue to observe.


You're doing everything correctly.  Increase the dose or keep sitting as you're doing and you'll make progress.  Just keep going.