Reading the book of Ingram it says that in the 3rd jhana you start to wide your attention to the point that its difficult to freeze it on one simple object. This matches with my practice in some way, because in the very beginning of my practice I used to stay focused on breath longer than I do now. But I don’t know if it is because of jhana change or because maybe I lost the interest I had at the beginning for being something new for me. I’ve been practicing for 2 years, doing a lot of meditation 1st year (every day almost 40 min) and very few this second. I didn’t lose the general interest, but Im not very disciplined and its something that happens to me on every field (I use to be very into something when I start, and within the time I go back to it with less insistence). But regardless of my discipline problems. The more time it passes, the more I prefer to wide the attention and free the focus. And I don’t know if widing the attention necessarily is related with insight practices more than concentration ones. So I don’t know if I simply prefer to do insight rather than concentration, or I have problems to narrow the focus, or Im already at the 3rd jhana…

And I will say more things that are coming to my mind right now and I need to share. They are related with the first paragraph, but maybe it needs different answers.


When in the book Ingram says that according to concentration practices, you start to wide your attention and your focus moves from one thing to another. Does that mean that your attention moves within the range that you already chosen to deal with? or it means that your attention goes beyond your limitated object and starts to watch other things. If concentration means that you have to solidify something… in the moment that you let you mind go you are not doing concentration anymore right? I need to solve that haha. 
When Im paying attention to the sensation of mi finger laying on the table, should I try to investigate the amount of sensations it has inside and the changes between them or I have to create a solid mental image of it and stay there? I think I have enough clarity to distinguish both, and I can deliberately do one or another. But im afraid that if I let myself investigate beyond my solid mental image I’ll start seeing the Three Caracteristics and starting insight practice.

In order to know which jhana you're in, I'd recommend you to compare your experiences with how the Buddha described the jhanas.

from the samadhi sutta:

There is the case where a monk — quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful qualities — enters & remains in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from withdrawal, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. With the stilling of directed thoughts & evaluations, he enters & remains in the second jhana: rapture & pleasure born of composure, unification of awareness free from directed thought & evaluation — internal assurance. With the fading of rapture, he remains equanimous, mindful, & alert, and senses pleasure with the body. He enters & remains in the third jhana, of which the Noble Ones declare, 'Equanimous & mindful, he has a pleasant abiding.' With the abandoning of pleasure & pain — as with the earlier disappearance of elation & distress — he enters & remains in the fourth jhana: purity of equanimity & mindfulness, neither pleasure nor pain.

But take my advice with a grain of salt since I'm a beginner.

Ok. Descriptions of what you should feel in each Jhana are quite usefull, but this generalities have their limits, at least for me to solve some paradoxes I have to face in my practice. Maybe I have to read more and more. For example: Right know I still dont know, when people talk about jhanas, if they are talking about samatha jhanas (concentration) or vipassana jhanas (insight). Or maybe when you are not being specific you are refering to a 3rd concept that envolves both. When I look at the maps, they relate this kind of 'mental states', such as 'equanimity', or 'fear', or 'rapture', to some jhana. But I dont know if they are talking about the jhanas Ingram mention in the chapter called 'Concentration States (Samata Jhanas)' or there is other kind of jhanas.... So when I ask in which jhana I am. I would like to know too how many jhanas are there with the same name.

Now. Regardless of that question about terminology. I want to go back to one of the first problems I brought to this post:

When Ingram speak about the Samatha Janas (deliberately speaking about concentration practice) it says that in the first 2 of them you have to create a kind of solidified mental image about the object you are practicing with. Then, as you move forward you start to wide you arttention and so things start to show its intermittence. My question is.... This is not related now with insight??? I mean, is like you were starting to see the 3 characteristics , isnt it?

ISNT IT?????

I think that when Daniel says Jhana w/o being specific he means samatha jhana. When the Buddha said jhana he probably meant just jhana since the meditation that he taught was not divided into samatha and vipassana. That division has probably nothing to do with his original teachings, it was something monks came up with in the middle ages. I don't really get your last question since I'm not a native english speaker.