Is the goal of Actualism to eliminate the imagination?

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Not Tao, modified 7 Years ago.

Is the goal of Actualism to eliminate the imagination?

Posts: 997 Join Date: 4/5/14 Recent Posts
I've been thinking about this idea and it seems to line up.  Richard says he can't form images in his head and he doesn't dream.  I've noticed a very direct link between imagination and the PCE.  It's the imagination, specifically, that seems to block the vision and stifle the hearing.  Emotions feed on the imagination, and actually that seems to be the only place they happen.  Also, some experience with lucid dreaming has shown me that dreams are completely tied to the emotional state.  This might explain why Richard doesn't sleep much.  If dreams are meant to sort out emotional states and form memories, then there wouldn't be much need for him to rest aside from the tissue repair portion of deep sleep.
Adam . ., modified 7 Years ago.

RE: Is the goal of Actualism to eliminate the imagination?

Posts: 613 Join Date: 3/20/12 Recent Posts
the goal of actualism is to enjoy being alive in a harmless and continuous way...

not that what you are saying is necessarily wrong or uninteresting... but the above is what really matters, at least to me
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Daniel Leffler, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: Is the goal of Actualism to eliminate the imagination?

Posts: 292 Join Date: 9/9/14 Recent Posts
I would say no for a couple of reasons
One, Richard is apparently designing and building an ark to set forth on a PCE-fueld magical mystery tour
As a designer and builder myself (mostly of houses) I don't think one could be creative without imagination 
There's also no shortage of imagination on the AF site (zing!)
B, the universe is imaginitive, magical and creative - just look at a platypus - it's ridiculous!
As the eyes and ears (nose and throat) of the universe experiencing itself, the point of evolution (evolution is the point of actualism?) isn't for us to destroy our imagination, or our minds, or the universe itself (IMHO anyway, as Joseph Campbell's said 'ha! now I'm interpreting god!') it's for us to become egoless, more connected, without fear, to embody love and compassion (or benevolence in actualist-speak if you like)
Also (I got this from Canpbell too) it seems like an immature view that the world (or the imagination) is the problem, the problem is our reaction to those things. Do we react in fear or greed or unconsciousness (craving, aversion, ignorance) or are we fearless, and humble, naive and full of selflessness and gratitude and goodwill? Do we not take things personally and see things clearly for what they are?
To eliminate the imagination is to eliminate the mind - I know that is the goal of some.
Not me anyway, I'm looking forward to the new star wars movie
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Daniel Leffler, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: Is the goal of Actualism to eliminate the imagination?

Posts: 292 Join Date: 9/9/14 Recent Posts
I'll have what he's having ; )
Alin Mathews, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: Is the goal of Actualism to eliminate the imagination?

Posts: 182 Join Date: 1/25/13 Recent Posts
Many people claim to be unable to mentally invisage imaginary things and have no memory of their dreams. But their visual cortex must still be active as its used to form mental images of what the retina sees. 

From my experience mental imaginings and over-emotional reactions distract attention away from what's actually happening (sense data) which causes irrational responses and unnecessary accidents. I'm no longer willing to pay such a price for purely subjective entertainment. seeing this is reducing their arising. whether its permanent or not, it's preferable. this body is less stressed without them, and so are those i relate to. 
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Not Tao, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: Is the goal of Actualism to eliminate the imagination?

Posts: 997 Join Date: 4/5/14 Recent Posts
I think you guys misinterpreted what I meant.  I don't mean imagination in the sense of creativity, I mean imagination in the sense of invisible images and impressions in the head that play out a scene.  Like in the common driving example where a person drives all the way home from work and realizes they didn't actually see any of it because they were playing out a scene in their head.

In terms of creativity, it's actually much easier to be creative without these mental images.  There isn't a constant internal conflic between what's happening and an ideal in the head.  I'm a painter, and when I paint a figure or an object of some kind, I have no mental images in my head I'm copying, I have to work it out as it appears on the page, so the visual imagination actually gets in the way and I have to try to ignore it.

@Alin: There does seem to be two separate visual impressions that compete with eachother.  The actual vision from the eyes, and the imaginary visuals in the head.  When I stop paying any attention to the imaginary visuals, the visual impression from the eyes becomes steady.  I wonder if there could be a simple flip of habit, where the mind stays mostly in the sense impressions, and goes into the imagination more rarely.
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Shashank Dixit, modified 7 Years ago.

RE: Is the goal of Actualism to eliminate the imagination?

Posts: 282 Join Date: 9/11/10 Recent Posts
Not Tao:
I've been thinking about this idea and it seems to line up.  Richard says he can't form images in his head and he doesn't dream.  I've noticed a very direct link between imagination and the PCE.  It's the imagination, specifically, that seems to block the vision and stifle the hearing.  Emotions feed on the imagination, and actually that seems to be the only place they happen.  Also, some experience with lucid dreaming has shown me that dreams are completely tied to the emotional state.  This might explain why Richard doesn't sleep much.  If dreams are meant to sort out emotional states and form memories, then there wouldn't be much need for him to rest aside from the tissue repair portion of deep sleep.

I hear you completely because I had the exact same thinking a while back. Your line of thinking
looks very sound to me.

Just a while back I too realized that if I had no imagination whatsoever, I will then
actually be here and only sensing the world around me. I thought like wow, this
imaginary world in my head is what is unreal and preventing me from experiencing
what is genuine - this physical universe

This line from Richard does say that imagination is preventing one from being actually what one is : 

I have always been here, in this actual world of sensorial delight, one realises, for it was that ‘I’ only imagined ‘I’ existed; ‘my’ presence had been but an emotional/ passional play in a fertile imagination; an emotional/ passional play


Both imagination and passions/emotions feed of each other continuosly and practise-wise I think its impossible to
forcibly stop imagining, because the passions/emotions are instinctual in nature and will continue to trigger.

The way it works in Actualism is that one directs oneself to enjoying and aprreciating and being felicitous/innocuous..by doing
this, one gets closer to the senses and when one is closer to the senses, imagination operates less and less.
wwyww, modified 6 Years ago.

RE: Is the goal of Actualism to eliminate the imagination?

Posts: 10 Join Date: 3/31/15 Recent Posts
Seems like a lot of unjustified speculation to me.

" actually that seems to be the only place they happen."

Neurologically that just isn't true.
Echo 10, modified 6 Years ago.

RE: Is the goal of Actualism to eliminate the imagination?

Posts: 18 Join Date: 3/25/15 Recent Posts
I think what Richard means is that he cannot imagine something that cannot exist, because it appears to be an absurdity to him. There is a section of the AFT website where Richard responds to claims that we need instinctual passions to fight extra-terrestrials. For him, this is a mere hypothetical, and so his point seems to be: why ask the question?

See what I'm saying? In terms of imagination, why imagine a hypothetical disaster scenario, or any scenario? When neither have any existence in actuality.

Just as a side note, I really, really, like his style. emoticon

 

Plus I have the most classic indication of insanity ... that is: everyone else is mad but me.

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Not Tao, modified 6 Years ago.

RE: Is the goal of Actualism to eliminate the imagination?

Posts: 997 Join Date: 4/5/14 Recent Posts
No, both Richard and Peter say that they no longer have the ability to form images in their head. Someone specifically asked Peter how he was able to do his draftsman job in spite of this, and Peter said he had no difficulty.

I can't get a reference right now because their site seems to be down...

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