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Dealing with the Dark Night

I really can't take it anymore...

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I really can't take it anymore... Michał G. 8/27/15 10:31 AM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... dcm 8/27/15 10:53 AM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... Ian And 8/27/15 12:10 PM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... Richard Zen 8/27/15 1:08 PM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... Noah 8/27/15 3:00 PM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... Daniel M. Ingram 8/27/15 3:15 PM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... Michał G. 8/28/15 2:52 AM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks 8/28/15 8:15 AM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... dcm 8/28/15 6:33 AM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... Michał G. 8/28/15 8:12 AM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks 8/28/15 8:24 AM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... Michał G. 8/29/15 4:29 AM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks 8/29/15 8:33 AM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... Banned For waht? 8/29/15 10:17 AM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... Banned For waht? 8/29/15 10:14 AM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... Banned For waht? 8/29/15 7:51 AM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... Jenny 9/8/15 12:34 AM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... Michał G. 8/28/15 8:34 AM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... svmonk 8/28/15 2:38 PM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... Not Tao 8/30/15 2:10 AM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... Michał G. 8/30/15 5:43 AM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... Not Tao 9/1/15 7:48 PM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... Michał G. 9/3/15 3:13 PM
RE: I really can't take it anymore... b man 9/2/15 5:11 PM
I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
8/27/15 10:31 AM
Even to type this is so exhausting, but I have to because recently I am so angry I feel like destroying the whole univere. For few years I am in Dark Night on and off but recently, it's just ridicilulous. I have never imagined such agony possible. It's not just mental, it's physical as well. There is such tension inside me, often I just collapse on the ground and I feel like being choked. I am broke, have no money, but I can't be productive even for 30 minutes, it's IMPOSSIBLE. Whenever I try to do something, it's like being possesed by thousand demons, trying to rip me apart from inside. There are no desires in me, I don't want anything from the world, I don't see the point of this life. Everything is temporary, nothing lasts. I don't know what am I supposed to be doing here. I want to find out who am I, but there is nothing there. I am not even sure if this can be found out. The worst part is, that I am still here and unless I kill myself, I will be here for quite some time so I have to function in the world whether I like it or not. But I JUST CAN'T. The only hope for this to end is message of enlightened masters, but I am losing this hope. I can't create artificialy desires to keep me going in "real world" and masters say to drop desires. OK but how is it possible to live without desires anyway? What will drive you to do things? I have no desires (maybe except for ending this madness and finding out the "truth"...) and I would love to sit like a vegetable most of the time, like Ramana Maharishi did but guess what, I am broke and I have to work and work HARD because I live in a pretty poor country and my situation is shit. No one is going to bring me food everyday. And what is also very depressing that according to MCTB you don't really get rid of dark night for ever, it will be coming back. Is there no way to break free? I am drowning in my madness. Someone please convince me that after some event maybe, fruition, ego death or whatever there will be a state which will make any kind of life without so much pain possible. Because if this goes on, I might kill myself

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
8/27/15 10:53 AM as a reply to Michał G..
I'm reading "Spiritual Warfare" by Jed McKenna. There are certainly lots of different ways of seeing things from the way you see them now.

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
8/27/15 12:10 PM as a reply to Michał G..
Consider and contemplate the following from the episode
"The Spirit-Helper" from the 1970s television program Kung Fu:

On expressing his desire to find the men who killed his parents, young Caine is counselled by Master Po.

Master Po: Is it not more important that you find yourself than a killer of men? Would your parents not wish you to go forward to life and light rather than backwards to death and darkness?

Caine: How to I find myself and the Light?

Master Po: By taking the path that leads to the truth.

Caine: Will you help me walk the path?

Master Po: I can only point the way, Grasshopper. You must walk the path yourself.


On contemplating the huge iron urn that he must some day move with his forearms.
Caine: Hundreds of pounds of burning coal and iron. How can I lift this, Master, having only the strength of a man and the weaknesses?

Master Po: It is because you are a man that you can do this.

Caine: I do not understand.

Master Po: As the softest clay in time becomes the hardest brick, a fragile leaf a diamond. As the stream of fiery ore freezes into unbending iron, so too may a man ascend to himself.

Caine: How?

Master Po: By slowly forging the Chi within yourself, the bond between the finite and the infinite, the inner essence of your spirit and the limitless power of the universe.

Caine: How can I do this?

Master Po: You will have found your strength in the source of your survival. You will be free.

On a more practical level with regard to the obstacles that face you, approach each problem by itself, one at a time. Do not try to tackle them all at once.

Find some activity that you excel in and which when done properly allows you to feel good about yourself. Whether it be the joy of meditation or simply watering a plant. Find something that you can build on and perform on a daily basis. Before you go out into your day, make sure you perform this task and receive the requisite reward for having done so. In this way you can build on your self esteem to help end the negativity that surrounds you. If you feel good about yourself, how can negativity enter your consciousness?

Then, once you are in the right frame of mind, begin to seriously consider how you are going to make yourself useful to others so that you can make a living. This may mean taking a low and menial job in the beginning. But if you approach that job with the same cheerful attitude each day, someone will take notice and promote you. Or you will take matters into your own hands and promote yourself by seeking a more challenging position. In other words, get your financial household in order so that you are not down and out and only digging yourself into a deeper hole of self pity and remorse.

Only then will you be in a position to begin making positive steps in your Dhamma practice. Solve the immediate problems first; work on the long range problems once you have created the condition for doing so. And by all means, remain as humble as possible thoughout this process.

This is the way to lift yourself out of the hole you have dug for yourself. One small step at a time. :-)

In peace,
Ian

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
8/27/15 1:08 PM as a reply to Michał G..
The way to break free is to keep practicing and gain equanimity.

I've posted lots of other beneficial things on gaining an understanding of getting things done in life and it's often an attitude shift where you pay attention the benefits with vivid imagery of your goals (no matter how basic) and to start knocking off small goals one by one. That will get you to release dopamine and feel better. The dark night episodes diminish when you use your concentration to be a tranquilizer and then use goals as a way to make the brain feel like there is some progress. The brain needs that to feel alive.

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5720286
Imagery books


http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5036272
GTD - Getting things done

In particular I think people need to get into flow states more often at work and it jives well with concentration states. It's usually paying attention to tasks without thinking about the future and past too much that starts you off in the direction of Flow. Then you try to do tasks with extra care to create more interest. Interest and a lack of ruminating about future and past will get you into Flow. The rest is matching skills with challenges. Too much challenge (anxiety). Too much skill (boredom). In your case you need to keep focusing on increasing skills (which will be much more important than long hours of meditation which you can do in daily life instead) so that you fall into those energetic flow states that make you feel energized at the end of the day instead of depression.

This is true with concentration practices, where desire is used to enjoy the breath more than distracting addictions or activities. Thanissaro is particularly good at keeping the breath simple but practical in changing yourself:

http://www.dhammatalks.org/mp3_index.html

For me I couldn't get out of the dark night without having lots of the conventional goal orientation practices and using desire in skillful ways. Desire is not the problem, but what we desire. If we desire to control things beyond our control then that is what meditation should be targeting. Having desire for healthy things that are within your control is not a problem.

There is a way out!

Richard

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
8/27/15 3:00 PM as a reply to Michał G..
And what is also very depressing that according to MCTB you don't really get rid of dark night for ever, it will be coming back. Is there no way to break free? I am drowning in my madness. Someone please convince me that after some event maybe, fruition, ego death or whatever there will be a state which will make any kind of life without so much pain possible.


Many people will probably object to this attitude, but, in addition to the incremental progress described by Ian and Richard, there is also the likelihood of explosive progress forward through sustained, diligent practice.  By this, I mean baseline shifts, path moments, new plateuas of reduction in suffering.  Have hope in this; there are 4 paths.  Then there are probably plenty of shifts which can happen after these events.  I have heard experienced practitioners describe shifts in the way emotions are processed, as well as the possibility of the complete ending of personal emotions, which is replaced with a continuous flow of wonder and playfulness in relation to the world.  In short, it gets better.

Greener pastures, my friend....

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
8/27/15 3:15 PM as a reply to Michał G..
Dear Michael G,

I am sorry to hear you are having such a hard time.

My advice, in this order:

Call a close family member and/or friend if you have one and let them know what is going on now and hang out with them if possible while you do the next part:

Seek counseling now where you are in person. Get help. It sounds like you are totally in over your head. I would call someone today. If you have no resources, try an emergency department with psychiatric services (larger/academic/referral ones are more likely to have these in-house or nearby, but you might check your local resources). They don't know what you are talking about regarding things like meditation stages, but they will know all about depression, anxiety, and people in crisis. What psychological support resources do you have? Whatever ones there are: use them.

Stop meditating and put all such models away for the time being: they are not likely to help you and may make things worse.

I hope those help.

When you are psychologically stabilized, think about getting back into meditation gently with models that focus on the here and now, ground things in your body, and have the support of wise, in-person teachers, if sich are available, and wise internet or phone-connected teachers if not locally available.

If possible, do things that are fun and safe, even little things. Those may help.

Daniel

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
8/28/15 2:52 AM as a reply to Michał G..
Thanks for the replies guys. On intellectual side I know all of that, but I guess I just can't let go.

About desires, almost all (if not all) spiritual teaching emphasize importance of dropping all desires, but I think this is wrong. I think attachment is the problem, attachment to desire, outcomes etc. and not desiring itself. Because how can one not desire? Desire is life itself, even to eat is a desire. Every action comes from some form of desire, either out of physiology like desire to eat or sleep, or even out of love and compassion like desire to help others, whether be it to reach enlightenment or just help them in some simpler, more material form. Without desires, one would just simply sit and wither, what would drive his actions?

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
8/28/15 8:15 AM as a reply to Michał G..
Without desires, one would just simply sit and wither, what would drive his actions?


Yeah, so barring an emergency or some intereaction with others, just sitting, if very comfy, the first things that would happen is one would have to use the bathroom...eventually one would need water.. and so there is basic caretaking of oneself for inherent processes at the core of being. So far does that make sense? That there are animal-care basics driving action; yes, desires, but very basic needs that can be met with understanding (even even compassion) for this condition of being alive. Okay, so far?

and seconding others: if you need a listener via skype or so, welcome to PM. 

_______
Edit: And I hope you considered Daniel's reply at heart.

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
8/28/15 6:33 AM as a reply to Michał G..
Michał G.:

Without desires, one would just simply sit and wither


That's not Truth. That's fear.

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
8/28/15 8:12 AM as a reply to dcm.
dcm:
Michał G.:

Without desires, one would just simply sit and wither


That's not Truth. That's fear.

That's not fear. That's logic.

Seriously, whatever you get to do, is driven by some kind of desire is it not? Being totally without desires, what will you do? You will sit for 10 hours then, you will need to eat something. Okay, that's a subtle physiological desire. Then, your food runs out and you have to go shopping. Because there was desire to eat, you are motivated to go and do shopping. Then you need money, so you need to make some money. Then there is desire to make money based on needs. So since you must work anyway, why be a victim? You may then desire to do something useful and joyful to make money. Or let's say that you see someone suffering, you want to help him. Because there appeared desire to help him. Really, you operate based on desires, why are you looking for a better job? Why you have decided to go to cinema? Or why have you decided to start family? 

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
8/28/15 8:24 AM as a reply to Michał G..
So knowing this--
Knowing your reply to dcm, Michał,
Seriously, whatever you get to do, is driven by some kind of desire is it not? Being totally without desires, what will you do? You will sit for 10 hours then, you will need to eat something. Okay, that's a subtle physiological desire. Then, your food runs out and you have to go shopping. Because there was desire to eat, you are motivated to go and do shopping. Then you need money, so you need to make some money. Then there is desire to make money based on needs. So since you must work anyway, why be a victim? You may then desire to do something useful and joyful to make money. Or let's say that you see someone suffering, you want to help him. Because there appeared desire to help him. Really, you operate based on desires, why are you looking for a better job? Why you have decided to go to cinema?



What do you think of a) just knowing that, and b) moderating and taming own-desires over time to be simpler and less imposing/more joyful with others and c) perhaps helpful in helping others avoid/reducing suffering (hunger prevention with immediate help and sustainable health food augmentation and training, care-lessness with caring and assistance, habitatlessness with care and planning...)? 


That this is one moderate or middle way between extremes of self- and other annihilationism.

Knowing exactly what you know: that one can be very simple in action, respectful of the natural condition of desires arising, even very modest ones (to use the toilet), but to know very steady calmness and greatly reduced, simplifed desire understanding what you do about your own human animal.

Your thoughts?

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
8/28/15 8:34 AM as a reply to Michał G..
Paweł K:
[quote=It os happen that in any situation you can find part 1., in all. You do not seek it, do not have to make it stronger, it is just there. 
]

Right, it is just there. I think that another good question is, what is origin of given desire? Because we can have desire born out of physiology, you are hungry. There can also be a desire born out of ego or fear, for example, I want to look better or make more money because I am not good enough. Or there can be a desire born out of compassion, someone is suffering and I want to help. Even Buddha sharing his teaching with others, is it not desire to help others born out of compassion? In some desires, origin is easy to backtrack but as I watch myself sometimes there are desires to do something without some rational reason. Sometimes you just feel like doing something for the sake of doing it

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
8/28/15 2:38 PM as a reply to Michał G..
Michal,

Strictly speaking, the problematic part is the link between pleasant/unpleasant sensation and turning toward or turning away (for unpleasant). That then leads to craving if the sensation is pleasant, which is a strong and overwhelming desire for more, or a rejection, which is a strong and overwhelming desire to get rid of. One could call craving attachment, so, yes, attachment is the problem, but it is a particular kind of attachment. It is not the kind that applies to basic biological needs as katy pointed out, and certainly not to the desire to help others, as you yourself pointed out in a later post. The latter, the desire to help others, is actually the basic motivation for practice in Zen for example.

My advice is to read again what Daniel and katy wrote and think about how you might apply that to your situation. Not being physically there, I can't say exactly what your situation is, but I've found for myself when I'm at a stuck place, the most sensible way to make progress is to stop meditating for a while, pay attention to my life, spend time with friends and family doing things I enjoy, and make sure I eat good healthy meals, lots of salad, that kind of thing. I know that might sound corny when you're up against a philosophical dilemma, but often breakthroughs come when you back off for a bit. Even if a breakthough doesn't come, after you get your life settled, you can return to practice with renewed vigor

Hope this helps, and best of luck!

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
8/29/15 4:29 AM as a reply to katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks.
katy steger:

Knowing exactly what you know: that one can be very simple in action, respectful of the natural condition of desires arising, even very modest ones (to use the toilet), but to know very steady calmness and greatly reduced, simplifed desire understanding what you do about your own human animal.

Your thoughts?

I've been thinking and we could probably differentiate words desire and need. As we start with needs, like need to eat, use the toilet, then make money, find appropriate job and so on, there might be a moment when needing turns into desiring. But just going with the needs it seems like a victim mentality. Let's take working for an example, since it's a vital part of life. I see at least 3 ways to approach this:

-I work because I NEED to (don't really feel like it but need money for this and that)
-I work because I WANT to (I just enjoy doing this and money is a very well welcomed side effect)
-I work because I DESIRE to be rich, to be respected, to feel this or that, prove something, etc.

All these spiritual texts start to mess with my mind. I am confused how to live "properly" (by this I mean lifestyle resulting in reducing suffering/getting closer to enlightenment) in a big modern world. The more I am aware of my mind and what and why I am doing, the more "being in the world but not of it" is difficult.


Look at this random generic quote on desire:
"Desire is poverty. Desire is the greatest impurity of the mind. Desire is the motive force for action. Desire in the mind is the real impurity. Even a spark of desire is a very great evil."

Swami Sivananda

This is religious attitutde toward desire in a nutshell. And this kind of stuff makes the impression that spirituality is anti life and that's why people think that the only way to reach god is to renounce the world and live in a cave or a forest. we have "Desire is the motive force for action" and I agree with that like I mentioned in my previous posts. But look at the rest of this quote "Desire is poverty. Desire is the greatest impurity of the mind. (...) Desire in the mind is the real impurity. Even a spark of desire is a very great evil." One has to renounce desire which means renouncing action. So according to this quote the way to union with god/enlightenment/tao/truth is by becoming a sitting vegetable?

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
8/29/15 8:33 AM as a reply to Michał G..
Hi Michał,

First, I want to reaffirm Daniel's reply to you. I know you thanked the guys upthread and I hope that means you read and took to heart Daniel's recommendations.


Two, Gordo has, I think, an excellent point; in my words, that if this dialog is serving intellectual/argumentative gratification (pleasure), then I personally would not reply as I can't see that helping any goal is to find and cause reliable well-being for issues you raise in your thread here. Do you have a goal to find/cause reliable and well-being answers to issues you raised in your thread so far?


Three, the question you posed:
So according to this quote the way to union with god/enlightenment/tao/truth is by becoming a sitting vegetable?

There are some traditions that demonstrate/advocate what you've written. Sometimes what you've written is reserved for old age and/or sickness in those traditions, when family can accept such a person's decision and the decision is housed in something they love, like samadhi, devotion and union. 

And there are other traditions (and I speculate that you also know this) that recognize a spectrum with poles and a big middle: from (a) non-action, non-desire (sitting in reduced action till death), to (m) some action, some desires, to  (z) action for all desires. There's a lot in the middle (m). 

So a principle in a middle-way action recognizes that there is a range, say, "a - z" and looks for development in the big part of, say, a bell curve. Where am i now and what actions do I cause to move towards well-being? If one type of well-being did not work or needs modifying, then I cause that change/modification.


I don't know much at all about you, so I don't know if you were raised with or developed on your own knowledge of worth in being well.


There are also the body and brain chemistries of age and exercise and eating and rest. One can have a lot of tense/hard thinking just from non-exercise, not eating veggies daily, not de-tensing, and brain changes with the chemsitry of aging. 


I would want anyone to feel a good sense of well-being and access to working on that reliably for themselves.

I hope you have friendly care for yourself, building habits that build well-being: perseverance, exercise, sunlight, eating leafy greens and another vegetable every day (being a bit careful about sugary treats lows), sharing time/resources with others with less; setting aside a little savings for your tomorrow self no matter how small, just a jar; getting a safe friend listener and healthcare intervention when you feel like harming any life, own or otherwise; non-harm. 

I often share/read about people who are good guides for actions that support community well-being and self well-being; this week Seamie O'Boyle, Yongo Otieno Wycliffe, and an American engineer and climber who contributed in study, sharing and kindness, too, in her community.

Michał, I hope you recognize and cause conditions for well-being. One way to use own suffering is to be able to recognize it in others and know, "I don't like this overwhelming suffering, I want help to get away from it. They don't want suffering, maybe I can help reduce their suffering." This is the old adage of heaven and hell: if both heaven and hell were a buffet table filled with all kinds of delicious foods and very long utensils, what is the difference between heave and hell? In hell, they starve being unable to bring such long utensils to their mouths. In heaven, they know to feed a person near to them and be fed by another." So this is about action and co-causing well being in a situation that is both abundant and also potentially deprived/miserable at the same time. 

And I hope you re-read Daniel's reply and chose health-care first if you feel like ending life.


I don't expect my reply to be helpul, but thanks for your time reading and considering my own thoughts.

______________
Another view to consider very basically is, "If my body and mind are constantly changing, what is stable and reliable to 'me'?" And like a tiny boat that moves on open water in response to the water, spinning, bobbing ---- one can feel like this, consumed by those ever-changing reactions of mind, reacting to attractions and repulsions/fears in the world and attractions and repulsions/fears in mind. Knowing these conditions of how mind spins reactively with itself and with events/others, one can consider what is the still point of mind? Not being consumed by these inner and outer conditions while cultivating at the same time helpful ballast to move some conditions of the boat (life, mind, conditions) to well-being. 

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
8/29/15 7:51 AM as a reply to Michał G..
Things you don't desire you don't care and see but have eyes only for the things you yearn. This is the level of a stone. In order to move you need to satisfy the desire. The desire itself is making you immobile.

I have sometimes wondered why some people are so "brave". Its bloodlust(or something,(..).

In order to find a way out you need to serve someone and put your own needs behind and even if it feels not right. But here is the best idea if you start believing in God then doubt rises in you, on that moment now you need to overcome doubt by continue believeing in God and repeat it many times.
 So you will get strenght to overcome any obstacle because you know what it means to overcome an obstacle. Anyway you will be able to see your own face and then can see how stupid it is, shame rises..penance, forgivness..


RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
8/29/15 10:17 AM as a reply to katy steger,thru11.6.15 with thanks.
Its really hard to get into those states of minds tho. Whats bad is when you miss these states or turning back while there. What could now do is just regret and you can that state back more easyly.
basically when you defeat that state you will put it on you like an armor.
Also as a teaser, there are level you defeat and can have an arm armor.

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
8/29/15 10:14 AM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
also if you wait long enough your desire will be fullfilled.

patient endurance.

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
8/30/15 2:10 AM as a reply to Michał G..
Desire isn't the problem, negative feelings are.  You can want things if you don't feel negative about not getting/having them.  You can attach negativity to anything at all, really.  Right now you seem to be attaching negativity to the idea that life doesn't seem to have much purpose or meaning.  If it wasn't this, it would be something else.  Negativity is a kind of addiction.

There is an escape from negativity - be positive.  I can understand that you might not want to be positive.  I can relate to how you feel.  I used to have very bad anxiety issues, and often the only thing that seemed to relieve them was a kind of dead, empty feeling.  But it actually isn't that hard to get relief from how you're currently feeling!  It doesn't take work as much as it may seem.  All it takes is a willingness to embrace good feelings and an optimistic attitude.  When you feel like crap this kind of advice will probably make you want to vomit, but it's not something I'm suggesting lightly.  It really has cured me of my problems (which were very bad before).

As a very basic exercise, try sitting down for a while and thinking about good things.  If a negative thought like, "There's no point to exist," comes up, replace it with something like, "because there is no point, I am free to do what I want with my life."  If the thought comes up, "I'm lazy, all I ever do is sit here," replace it with, "I'm very patient, I can just sit here forever and do nothing.  Not many people I know can do that."  If you think of people you hate, think something kind or flattering about them.  Don't try to force anything out of your head or try to make yourself feel better - you have to beleve your positive thoughts for this to work - so just put everything that comes up in a positive light and let the mind see, naturally, that it can calm down and relax.  Even very bad things like, "I'm going to lose my job!" or "My father just died!"  Can change to, "I have good people skills, so new interviews will go smoothly," and, "I had a lot of good times with my dad, such as..."  When you're in the kind of state you wrote your OP from, it's a kind of self-perpetuating downward spiral.  You have to break the ruminations and change the feelings before you can start to think more clearly.

When you're in a very focused negative state, the mind narrows down and stops looking at the bigger picture.  It's like you're being confronted by the prehistoric tiger in the woods, and your brain is obsessively focused on that tiger.  In the past this was useful because it sorted all of the information coming into your head according to one value - how quickly does it help me escape the tiger.  The big flaw with our human minds is that we are always creating imaginary scenarios in our heads.  If you see these scenarios the same way you see the tiger, you're going to be trapped in rumination, endlessly stewing over how to escape.  Since it's an imaginary situation we're carrying around with us, though, the tiger never goes away.  The first step is to realize that the emotions you're feeling are not the TRUTH about the situation, they are just an interpretation of the situation.  The truth is, all things that hapenare just neutral.  There is nothing inherently bad or good about the meaning or purpose of life, or the various situations we may find ourselves in.  It's our personal perspective that gives things the good and bad feelings we experience.  So, the way to feel better is to change your relationship to experience, allowing yourself to drop as many negative judgements as you can in order to simplify your emotional landscape.

And like I said, you don't need to lie to yourself and say, "life is so meaningful and I have so much to live for!"  Instead, you can just say, "Life is meaningless and I have nothing to live for, but who cares!  That's not really important either way.  Without meaning I'm free to do whatever and I can relax all this gnawing seriousness."  Sitting on a desert island for the rest of your life would be completely pointless (even from the perspective of a meaningful existence elseswhere), but it could be a very happy existence if you enjoyed the ocean and solitude.  Happy people don't really worry much about life - they're happy, so why whould they?  I mean, it's just the bad feeling you don't like, no?  It really has nothing to do with whether anything is worth doing or whether you have desires or not.

Embrace concepts like unconditional happiness (happy for no reason), carefree (free from caring), fulfilled (filled full, don't need to add anything).  Life just is.  We just exist.  Whether it's bad or good is just a feeling, and you can change how you feel by recontextualizing your thoughts.  If you want to feel good, then just think good things and you will feel good quickly thereafter.

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
8/30/15 5:43 AM as a reply to Not Tao.
Thank you for replies, I will not address them individually but I read them and appreciate them.

"because there is no point, I am free to do what I want with my life."

This reminds me of a recurring theme I am experiencing. The cycle looks generally like this:

-Negative cycle ends with dropping of expectations, "should" and "should not"s, lot of attachement is dropped. Then there comes great feeling of freedom, being ok with whatever life brings. This feels great and releases a lot of energy to be active again in the world

-I start "normal life" again, for a while it is amazing, being in the moment, doing my best and not attached to the end result.

-This continutes, but with all this energy I begin to be overdoing it. Ambitions slowly rise again, planning for more and more, setting goals etc.

-eventually, this becomes too much. I have lost the peace of mind I began with, thus everything appears to be miserable.

-negavite cycle starts, swinging between light state (indifference and hollowness) and heavy states (see first post). It's very painful because what I was doing gained momentum and some things I have to continue (business, education etc) but it is impossible, because of lack of energy and physical pain

-after the pain is just too much, the only way is to drop all this mental madness. At this point there is often some real world damage because of me being not consistent and responsible. But we are back to step 1...


So i'd say that I have a problem with meditation applied. The only real value to me is peace of mind and enlightenment and when I work in the world I begin to lose it, I see my peace of mind going away. And because this is the only valuable thing for me I freak out.

I see where is the problem and I even have a sample of how it is supposed to work. This period in this cycle, when with regained peace of mind I go back to normal life, is blissful and I feel so alive, it feels like this is how true life feels like. But nothing lasts forever

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
9/1/15 7:48 PM as a reply to Michał G..
You might be experiencing a horomone cycle, like bipolar disorder.  This is more of a physical problem than a mental one, all things considered.  Have you tried working with a therapist and some medication?  It might be that you simply can't balance things out with therapy or meditation.

Think of it like this - if you live in a place infested with rats and they keep biting you, the easiest thing to do would be to get rid of the rats or move to a new place.  It's a physical problem with a physical solution.  If your brain can't balance the chemicals, no matter how hard you try to work with them, then all the meditation in the world won't solve the problem.  It'd be like just trying to get used to rat bites - which you certainly could, but it's still going to hurt and be sucky.

Maybe try traching these cycles on a calendar for a while and see if there's a regularity or a pattern to it.  Does any of this seems familiar: http://www.dbsalliance.org/site/PageServer?pagename=education_brochures_bipolar_disorder_rapid_cycling

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
9/2/15 5:11 PM as a reply to Michał G..
Michał G.:
Even to type this is so exhausting, but I have to because recently I am so angry I feel like destroying the whole univere. For few years I am in Dark Night on and off but recently, it's just ridicilulous. I have never imagined such agony possible. It's not just mental, it's physical as well. There is such tension inside me, often I just collapse on the ground and I feel like being choked. I am broke, have no money, but I can't be productive even for 30 minutes, it's IMPOSSIBLE. Whenever I try to do something, it's like being possesed by thousand demons, trying to rip me apart from inside. There are no desires in me, I don't want anything from the world, I don't see the point of this life. Everything is temporary, nothing lasts. I don't know what am I supposed to be doing here. I want to find out who am I, but there is nothing there. I am not even sure if this can be found out. The worst part is, that I am still here and unless I kill myself, I will be here for quite some time so I have to function in the world whether I like it or not. But I JUST CAN'T. The only hope for this to end is message of enlightened masters, but I am losing this hope. I can't create artificialy desires to keep me going in "real world" and masters say to drop desires. OK but how is it possible to live without desires anyway? What will drive you to do things? I have no desires (maybe except for ending this madness and finding out the "truth"...) and I would love to sit like a vegetable most of the time, like Ramana Maharishi did but guess what, I am broke and I have to work and work HARD because I live in a pretty poor country and my situation is shit. No one is going to bring me food everyday. And what is also very depressing that according to MCTB you don't really get rid of dark night for ever, it will be coming back. Is there no way to break free? I am drowning in my madness. Someone please convince me that after some event maybe, fruition, ego death or whatever there will be a state which will make any kind of life without so much pain possible. Because if this goes on, I might kill myself


Ive been in hard dark night and suicidal places in the past, and I can relate. Hang in there bud. 

Daniels suggestions are strong. Getting support is always the answer. Ultimately, love is the answer, and it comes in many forms, friends, support from professionals etc, etc. Look for joy and love. Make it your mission to seek these things out, even if you dont feel like it. 

Heres a favorite video that I love to watch when I want to remind myself of simple joy and humaness - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlfKdbWwruY

g
ood luck and good job for reaching out and talking about it to us here, thats also a good way to get love and support. 

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
9/3/15 3:13 PM as a reply to Not Tao.
Not Tao:

Maybe try traching these cycles on a calendar for a while and see if there's a regularity or a pattern to it.  Does any of this seems familiar: http://www.dbsalliance.org/site/PageServer?pagename=education_brochures_bipolar_disorder_rapid_cycling

That describes me pretty well, I'd say 80% accurate. Thank you! I will look more into this, maybe that is the case. And calendar is a very good idea.

Thanks for the link b man. It really does remind of simple joy of being emoticon

RE: I really can't take it anymore...
Answer
9/8/15 12:34 AM as a reply to Michał G..
As someone who has been there three times in the past, with severe major depressive episodes and overlapping dark night, I agree completely with Daniel. Depression is almost always easily treated. Get your chems right first. Depression is a PHYSICAL illness. Then issues. Then meditation.

Chems first. Support network first. Your human life is precious, even if you cannot feel or see that at the moment.