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Buddha remembers childhood jhana

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Buddha remembers childhood jhana
Answer
6/24/16 12:22 PM
What is the best, most original, scriptural version of the point at which the buddha remembers his childhood jhana state ?

The versions I've seen claim that he recalled what sounds like some moments of jhanic peace sat under a tree, and immediately knew this was the path to enlightenment. I don't think I would be the first to ask how he would know that without having gone the full path already.

RE: Buddha remembers childhood jhana
Answer
11/15/16 1:42 PM as a reply to Stick Man.
John:
What is the best, most original, scriptural version of the point at which the buddha remembers his childhood jhana state ?

The versions I've seen claim that he recalled what sounds like some moments of jhanic peace sat under a tree, and immediately knew this was the path to enlightenment. I don't think I would be the first to ask how he would know that without having gone the full path already.

I doubt it was jhana itself that made the Buddha-To-Be believe this was the path to enlightenment. Instead, it would have been the spontaneous 'letting go of attachment' that lead to that spontaneous jhanic bliss that would have made the Buddha-To-Be believe this was the path the enlightenment. 

As a child, his mind spontaneously let go of attachment & concerns with the world, which resulted in bliss. 

It was not jhana that was the path but the letting go that was the path.

Regards emoticon

RE: Buddha remembers childhood jhana
Answer
11/15/16 3:50 PM as a reply to Stick Man.
I'm curious, too. Seems like the key google search phrase is "buddha sitting rose-apple tree"... but I can't quickly find a link back to a sutta.

RE: Buddha remembers childhood jhana
Answer
11/15/16 6:36 PM as a reply to shargrol.
shargrol:
I'm curious, too. Seems like the key google search phrase is "buddha sitting rose-apple tree"... but I can't quickly find a link back to a sutta.


MN 36 
Maha-Saccaka Sutta
"I thought: 'I recall once, when my father the Sakyan was working, and I was sitting in the cool shade of a rose-apple tree, then — quite secluded from sensuality, secluded from unskillful mental qualities — I entered & remained in the first jhana: rapture & pleasure born from seclusion, accompanied by directed thought & evaluation. Could that be the path to Awakening?' Then following on that memory came the realization: 'That is the path to Awakening.'

RE: Buddha remembers childhood jhana
Answer
11/15/16 6:46 PM as a reply to Nicky.
Paweł K:
Letting go of anything have nothing on jhana
It is jhana and only jhana that is the path to enlightenment.
Like why would you let go of anything if you already experienced it as jhana? You would need to be beyond insane to do that.

Buddha was letting go stuff when he was crazy ascetic and it didn't do jack shit for him except made him realize how useless it was.
Do you think that at 500 BC India there were no smart-ass gurus and priests to tell him that he need to let go of earthly possessions and desires? What Buddha did in his ascetic years if not that?

BTW. Attachment to anything, desires, etc. are not bad, 'relief' is and what produce suffering. But even dropping relief is not path to enlightenment. Jhana itself is only possible path to enlightenment.

Sounds like you should try to calm down & speak/write in a coherent manner. 

As for the Buddha, he taught letting go is the path to jhana & also the end of the path. . 

There is the case where a monk, a disciple of the noble ones, making it his object to let go, attains concentration, attains singleness of mind. Quite withdrawn from sensuality, withdrawn from unskillful mental qualities, he enters & remains in the first jhana:......... Indriya-vibhanga Sutta

"Seeing thus, the well-instructed disciple of the noble ones grows disenchanted with form, disenchanted with feeling, disenchanted with perception, disenchanted with fabrications, disenchanted with consciousness. Disenchanted, he becomes dispassionate. Through dispassion, he is fully released. With full release, there is the knowledge, 'Fully released.' He discerns that 'Birth is ended, the holy life fulfilled, the task done. There is nothing further for this world.' ...... Anatta-lakkhana Sutta

RE: Buddha remembers childhood jhana
Answer
11/16/16 5:38 AM as a reply to Nicky.
Thanks Nicky for the sutta reference!

RE: Buddha remembers childhood jhana
Answer
11/18/16 3:19 AM as a reply to Stick Man.
howdy,
yeah that is interesting.  and pawel makes the point that this memory of the buddha came only after years of acesticism and after years of study where he reached and overcame the limits and teaching of the best yogis of his day.

its pretty difficult to imagine that such a naturally talented yogi could spend so much time and energy in contemplation, better his teachers, spend further years in really painful abstinence and not have reached jhana.

for me the lesson is that, in his day, abstinence and difficulties were seen as the path.  pleasure was seen as something to be avoided at all costs.  in such a scenario whenever pleasant feeling would arise they would be shunned and supressed, the worst scenarion one could imagine for entering jhana these days.

it was his calling that teaching into question, and recalling his youthful experience which inspired him go allow himself to dive deep into the jhanic pool.  in the same way he decided to eat again he decided to strike off on a path in opposition to the teachings of the day.  evidence of this is the way his spiritual friends abandoned him when he set off on his blasphemous new path.

he still believed that overindulgence in carnel things was one extreme but his calling into question the strongly held belief that pain was the portal to direct knowlege was also called into question.  that is the earthly level of 'the middle way'.

so he built up his technique and contemplative power over years. saw the power of jhana and very quickly attained full enlightenment.

well..you have the sutta reference.

RE: Buddha remembers childhood jhana
Answer
11/18/16 7:24 AM as a reply to Nicky.
You can't give away your earthly possessions because you don't have them, You think you have them and cling to them.
6th consciousness is empty., the connections there made are your own and forced by others hence individual and world karma.

When you have attachment/desire to coffee then you just can't stop it by decision alone or solving some issue there. If you can then you clinging to earthly possesions, 6th consciousness. Its not about changing connections in brain or changing mind it is still doing something.

buddha's ascetic teachers had jhana. Jhana rises out of seclusion, you stop making karma with your body. You have attachment, stay in jhana and it will disappar and from that rises happiness and that happiness also dissappears and equanimity rises.

you will see that the happiness you get there is more purer than happiness from doing things.

******
later on higher turns you can do things and are requiered it is beyond what is jhana teachings(after you have mastery without losing what you gained you proceed to next turn). As you don't mention these things on a sinlge post(sayng the one half, that pleasure is allowed but not say why or what you exactly get from pleasures, how that is helping with the path?) you make i assume you not that far(thats what i think but maybe you are at bhumi 9001 but not sure why then you devalue observing precepts).

RE: Buddha remembers childhood jhana
Answer
11/23/16 5:34 AM as a reply to Banned For waht?.
If you renounce sensuality, then whatever you do is without you getting any benefits, world becomes pointless. Day to day activities, things get more and more pointless and less rewarding till you feel you are totally useless without any good when that low is peaking you realize clinging to your own importance or like you deserve better and it gets removed and you get fruition or whatever it is.

Renouncing sensuality or sensate indulgence you need jhana(doing nothing, seclusion) to get the urge go away and see that what follows is the same empty feeling like you would have done it. Example urge to party, don't go there is same as the feeling you get when the aftereffects of a party will dissolve.

So it makes sense to cultivate urges nowown. reading extremely boring text waht makes no sense, then you notice urge to quit, you will then can force or will yourself to continue reading, at some point something clicks and you take interest on the text you read, you start to see it and like it..(stage of learning)

Desires won't be defeated by ascetism, just cultivation(urge or something have to be there), the more you do the faster you get to next turn. More and more things you can use cognizance only to make moves. (maybe you do these type of cultivation, maybe not don't know, there comes/is body cultivation what is more informative and detailed, technical how to get from one part to other)

RE: Buddha remembers childhood jhana
Answer
11/24/16 11:54 PM as a reply to Nicky.
Paweł K:

Buddha was letting go stuff when he was crazy ascetic and it didn't do jack shit for him except made him realize how useless it was. 

No. It is you rather than Buddha that is a crazy.

When he was an ascetic, he was attempting to practise "impeturbability", which is not egolessness.


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RE: Buddha remembers childhood jhana
Answer
11/28/16 7:10 PM as a reply to tom moylan.
It also looks like he calls into question the dirty business of earning a living in the fields rather than sticking out the alms bowl.