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List your DhO site problems here

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List your DhO site problems here Simon Ekstrand 7/28/16 3:31 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Causes & Conditions 7/28/16 11:39 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Simon Ekstrand 7/29/16 2:08 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here neko 8/3/16 4:31 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Stirling Campbell 8/3/16 6:00 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Simon Ekstrand 8/4/16 3:15 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here CJMacie 8/4/16 12:28 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Simon Ekstrand 8/4/16 2:59 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Daniel M. Ingram 8/5/16 5:05 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Simon Ekstrand 8/6/16 12:42 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Simon Ekstrand 8/6/16 12:49 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Ward Law 8/6/16 2:30 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here CJMacie 8/6/16 8:34 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here CJMacie 8/8/16 12:51 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Oochdd 8/9/16 4:13 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here David S 8/9/16 10:35 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Simon Ekstrand 8/9/16 11:18 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here David S 8/9/16 11:57 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Simon Ekstrand 8/9/16 1:34 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here David S 8/9/16 5:51 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here David S 8/11/16 12:30 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here manish yadav 8/11/16 1:37 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here David S 8/11/16 2:07 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Simon Ekstrand 8/9/16 11:27 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here neko 8/9/16 11:47 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here CJMacie 8/11/16 7:16 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Superkatze one 8/12/16 12:18 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here bernd the broter 8/12/16 3:02 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here CJMacie 8/12/16 3:55 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Superkatze one 8/12/16 5:01 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Simon Ekstrand 8/12/16 5:46 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Daniel M. Ingram 8/12/16 6:12 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here This Good Self 8/17/16 8:57 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Oochdd 8/18/16 7:05 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here This Good Self 8/18/16 7:16 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Jack Hatfield 8/18/16 8:02 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Chris Marti 8/19/16 11:14 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here . Jake . 8/19/16 1:01 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Psi 8/19/16 3:09 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Simon Ekstrand 8/19/16 4:03 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Psi 8/19/16 7:29 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here CJMacie 8/19/16 7:54 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Simon Ekstrand 8/23/16 3:37 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Chris Marti 8/20/16 8:38 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Simon Ekstrand 8/23/16 3:34 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Chris Marti 8/24/16 7:19 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Small Steps 8/23/16 9:44 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Simon Ekstrand 8/23/16 3:26 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here CJMacie 8/25/16 1:20 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Caro 8/25/16 10:59 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Psi 8/26/16 12:36 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Simon Ekstrand 8/25/16 6:02 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Simon Ekstrand 8/26/16 8:24 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here neko 8/26/16 10:19 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here CJMacie 8/27/16 3:04 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here C P M 8/27/16 7:27 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Simon Ekstrand 8/27/16 8:19 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Simon Ekstrand 8/28/16 6:57 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here This Good Self 8/28/16 7:00 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Simon Ekstrand 8/28/16 7:20 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here CJMacie 9/1/16 6:43 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here David S 9/8/16 9:10 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Simon Ekstrand 9/9/16 7:24 AM
Strange goings-on here CJMacie 10/7/16 4:02 AM
RE: Strange goings-on here Dream Walker 10/7/16 10:25 AM
RE: Strange goings-on here Marty G 10/7/16 5:21 PM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Paul Atherton 6/17/19 7:26 AM
RE: List your DhO site problems here Siavash Mahmoudpour 6/17/19 3:45 PM
List your DhO site problems here
Answer
7/28/16 3:31 PM
Hi,

From time to time I try to help Daniel out and fix problems with the DhO site. Life being what it is I'm sure there are a number of issue I am not aware of or have forgotten about.

If you are currently having a problem with the DhO (site) I would appreciate if you would post about it here in this thread and I'll see what I can do about fixing it.

One issue that I am currently aware of is that links to uploaded files are currently broken. I'm working on it as time permits but it's been a tough problem to fix.

Thanks,
Simon

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
7/28/16 11:39 PM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Hey Simon,

I actually thought the site was down because it wouldn't load. This went on for a few weeks, until I cleared my history. Thanks for fighting the good fight.

Jeff

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
7/29/16 2:08 AM as a reply to Causes & Conditions.
Hi,

Ah, that's bad. That could very well be related to and fixed by the issue discussed here yesterday:

http://www.dharmaoverground.org/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/5869888

Depending on certain circumstances the DhO root page could get stuck in a redirect loop which showed itself as the site just trying to load forever.

Simon

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/3/16 4:31 PM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Incoming links from Google searches are broken and give 404, probably the urls were changed. Try this search, for example:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site%3Adharmaoverground.org+anything

Also, the "Reply to main thread" button on this page seems to be broken.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/3/16 6:00 PM as a reply to neko.
Looks like some posts from the last few days were lost in the update too.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/4/16 12:28 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
We.03.Aug.2016 4:48 PM PDT

Much better then yesterday, but

1) "Reply to Thread" at the bottom left of whole thread -- does nothing?

2) visually indenting the text posts (rather than just the TOC/index at the top) get unwieldy -- page full of vertical lines with thin column of text at the right,

3) No date-time stamp on each post? This BIG, must be just temporary?

4) Composing post: "Publish" "Save as Draft" "Cancel" -- no "Preview" ? That must also be just temporary; otherwise there might be a lot of editing after posting.

(And remembering to save this text to some local file before clicking any buttons -- yesterday composed a (longer) critique, and it all disappeared after "publish", and certainly wasn't published.)

Edit:
5) Something positive: using "print" to PDF now works much better (not perfect) -- almost WYSIWYG. Used to be only "Save Page As" would get a thread to file for use off-line. (Those fcns as on iMac OS X 10.8.5 Firefox 47.0)

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/4/16 2:59 PM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Simon Ekstrand

One issue that I am currently aware of is that links to uploaded files are currently broken. I'm working on it as time permits but it's been a tough problem to fix.

This is now fixed and all previously uploaded files are now available again.

​​​​​​​Simon

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/4/16 3:15 PM as a reply to neko.
nekoIncoming links from Google searches are broken and give 404, probably the urls were changed. Try this search, for example:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=site%3Adharmaoverground.org+anything

Also, the "Reply to main thread" button on this page seems to be broken.
I know what's causing the google search issue (sort of), it should be fixed in the next couple of days or so.

The reply to main thread button is also a known issue.

SImon

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/4/16 3:18 PM as a reply to CJMacie.
CJMacieWe.03.Aug.2016 4:48 PM PDT

Much better then yesterday, but

1) "Reply to Thread" at the bottom left of whole thread -- does nothing?

2) visually indenting the text posts (rather than just the TOC/index at the top) get unwieldy -- page full of vertical lines with thin column of text at the right,

3) No date-time stamp on each post? This BIG, must be just temporary?

4) Composing post: "Publish" "Save as Draft" "Cancel" -- no "Preview" ? That must also be just temporary; otherwise there might be a lot of editing after posting.

(And remembering to save this text to some local file before clicking any buttons -- yesterday composed a (longer) critique, and it all disappeared after "publish", and certainly wasn't published.)

1) Yepp, known issue.

2) I also miss the TOC, I'm hoping we can get that running again.

3) Well there is one, it's just.. different, ie. - CJMacie, modified 20 Hours ago.

4) Hadn't noticed that, will see what I can do.

5) Haven't had that happen yet, let me know if you see any pattern to it.

​​​​​​​Simon

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/5/16 5:05 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Multiple pages I have scrolled through failed to load until I hit the little gear upper right, then they would suddenly load. Until then, the blue line goes across the top again and again and again. Also, some wiki pages, such the Best of the DhO, were very slow to load and sometimes wouldn't load.

BTW: thanks very much for all your work on this. What a pain in the lower regions Liferay upgrades are.

​​​​​​​Daniel

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/6/16 12:42 AM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Daniel M. IngramMultiple pages I have scrolled through failed to load until I hit the little gear upper right, then they would suddenly load. Until then, the blue line goes across the top again and again and again. Also, some wiki pages, such the Best of the DhO, were very slow to load and sometimes wouldn't load.

BTW: thanks very much for all your work on this. What a pain in the lower regions Liferay upgrades are.

​​​​​​​Daniel
Hm, I'm not really experiencing navigation problems to any real degree. Are everyone having the problems with page loads that Daniel are describing?

​​​​​​​Simon

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/6/16 12:49 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Paweł Kafter somewhat obscure but otherwise very comfortable layout DhO finally entered into full fledged DN ...

Hehe, could you describe the problems you're having in more detail?

From a pure layout perspective it should be possible to get the previous theme running with liferay 7. I don't think that will do much for how posts are ordered in the forum though. 

​​​​​​​Simon 

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/6/16 2:30 PM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
I agree that there needs to be a date for every post.

Also, the RSS links all seem to point to the same feed, which is not post-specific. They should apply to the specific post, or not be included if that's not possible. On the bright side, you can at least see the post dates in the RSS feed.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/6/16 8:34 PM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
1) cjmacie:
3) No date-time stamp on each post? This BIG, must be just temporary?
see below

2)
cjmacie:
Something positive: using "print" to PDF now works much better (not perfect) -- almost WYSIWYG. Used to be only "Save Page As" would get a thread to file for use off-line. (Those fcns as on iMac OS X10.8.5 Firefox 47.0)
To add, reinforce, positive feedback: the ability to save thread image as PDF is now practically perfect, with WYSIWIG resolution. A lament from one who was there through the earlier evolution (1960s-1990s) of computer science, the discovery of solutions to most of the basic problems, I agree with Alan Kay that, for instance, the widespread ignoring of the WYSIWYG principle in print rendering these days casts doubt on the idea of "progress". As he put it so well: reinventing the wheel can is excusable; reinventing the flat tire/tyre less so.

3) Daniel M. Ingram:
What a pain in the lower regions Liferay upgrades are.
(More lament) Over the last two decades or so, there's a tendency (pioneered by Microsoft among others) to constantly "upgrade" to more fashionable "gumdrops", perhaps justifiable new capabilities, but in other ares reducing function, reducing user choice, and adding cost in terms of both $$/€ and human effort.

4) Wardlaw:
I agree that there needs to be a date for every post.
Seconding the same point I made (above (1)). Lacking date-time for each post makes it difficult to reconstruct, study the exact progression of posts (e.g. across nestings), for the purpose of more knowledgeable further discussion.Likewise the format of "Recent Posts" – lacking information as to who originated a thread, and when (and showing only the last author and only approximately when) amounts to denying, suppressing access to valuable information.

5) (concluding lament) It's as if "…liberty and the pursuit of happiness.." (for the global audience, that's a key phrase in the USA Declaration of Independence) is veering off, in the evolution of information technology, towards slavery and the compounding of unhappiness (dukkha) -- or perhaps DN, as Paweł K put it.

But not to lay this on the shoulders of those here struggling with configuring liferay updates. (Some new "features" we will probably just have to get used to.) From my 40 or so years of experience with info-tech, way back in the last century, even though it may seem now like the "golden age", truth of the matter is that all that was also, every step of the way, neck-deep in dukkha.

P.S. Just noticed -- this post-editor is MUCH IMPROVED! Pasting-in this post, all the color-emphases, italics, etc. came throught perfectly. (Used to have to re-do it all here.) AND the random loss of inter-word spaces doesn't appear to happen now. A bit of sukha. Kudos!

Edit: P.S.S. It all looked great in the composition window -- BUT came out with lack of colors, lost LFs between paragraphs when after being "published",  and some messed-up font sizes. Oh well -- sukha is just temporary, ... Now trying, with "edit" to put all that back in...

Re-Edit: that seems to work, except for font-sizes -- the work has been shifted from composition to editing.

Re-Re-Edit: and the colors don't come through on save-to-PDF...

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/8/16 12:51 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Just noticed that the new/current thread formatting favors the reply hierarchy, not time-line.

Used to be one could simply look at the bottom to see the most current entry, and so-on going back up through the thread (but more involved to sort-out the hierarchical nesting of replies).

So, how does one get to see just the latest additions now? Without the TOC at the top to rapidly scan, one must sift throught the whole thing?

Without that possibility, IMO, seriously compromised functionality/usability. Potentially fatal flaw.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/9/16 10:35 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Has anyone tried reading posts while not logged in? I did and could not read any posts because it just ran the blue line endlessly. It may be that noone else can either, which means no new people can come to the site and see what it is about.

Even while logged in I had to try numerous times to get past the strobing blue line.

Or is this just a test of my equinimity?

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/9/16 11:18 AM as a reply to David S.
David SHas anyone tried reading posts while not logged in? I did and could not read any posts because it just ran the blue line endlessly. It may be that noone else can either, which means no new people can come to the site and see what it is about.

Even while logged in I had to try numerous times to get past the strobing blue line.

Or is this just a test of my equinimity?

​​​​Hi David,

What operating system/ browser are you using?

​​​​​​​Simon

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/9/16 11:27 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Thanks for all the feedback. 

Just to provide an update, things are getting fixed, though not exactly quickly. 

​​​​​All the blue buttons should work now, more of them were broken than I realized. For example the reply to main thread button works now. Also redirects when posting to a thread were sort of screwed up and should now work. A number of other items, though not all user visible have also been fixed. 

If things go as planned the search on the site should start working tonight and hopefully be useful now. 

Anyway, sorry it's taking so long but work and life don't leave a great deal of time. 

​​​​​​​Simon

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/9/16 11:47 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
That sounds like a lot of work! Thank you for your time and effort. emoticon​​​​​​​

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/9/16 11:57 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
OS X 10.9.5

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/9/16 1:34 PM as a reply to David S.
David SOS X 10.9.5


That's consistent with other reports. That problem has only occurred in osx/safari i think.

I have been trying to reproduce for the last 20 minutes. Is it still occurring for you?

​​​​​​​simon 

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/9/16 4:13 PM as a reply to CJMacie.
Would like to second this. Especially in longer threads it's now basically impossible to find the newest contribution. Is there any way to bring back the old 'flat' view?

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/9/16 5:51 PM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Hi Simon.

I can read posts now without signing in, but it often locks up with the strobing blue line even when logged in. Sometimes I hit refresh and get it to move past this.

Thanks for the work you do.

Yes, I have been using Safari.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/11/16 12:30 PM as a reply to David S.
I find that the links lock up in the blue strobing line a very short time after looking at a page. If I refresh the page then quickly use the link the next screen loads properly and quickly. But if I look at a page for a little while before using a link, then I get the locked strobong blue line. I then have to refresh the screen and try the link again as soon as I can to move to the next page.

I don't know how web pages work so I'm not exactly sure if time is a factor, or if it is something else, but it sure seems to be. I just thought I'd pass this along.

I have been reading posts while not logged in.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/11/16 1:37 PM as a reply to David S.
Could you please share screen shot of issue which you are facing.It seems its only in Safari browser  with other browser its working fine

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/11/16 2:07 PM as a reply to manish yadav.
I don't understand why you ask for a screen shot. A screen shot will not give you any information. It will just show a web page, and maybe a bit of the blue loading line. Yes, I am using Safari.

Maybe you don't see the blue loading line because for you there is no delay. This line is not important. It is just a graphic design for something being processed, like the spinning circles et al. This line appreas at the top of the web page window and is just a small section with a blue color that trails from right to left. It disappears after the page loads, that is if it loads. If it does not it just continues moving across the top of the window over and over again.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/11/16 7:16 PM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
So, aside from patching up some problems, this is the way DhO discussion system is going to be?

No (usable) date-time stamps?
No ID of thread author or beginning date in the Recent Posts list?
Latest posts buried somewhere in message nesting (how to find it, eg. in "Richard's insight practice", with its 286 posts)?
    (Unless new post appended to OP / Main Thread, it's not at the bottom.)
No new-post "preview"?
etc. -- probably more I've not tested.

Is all this change enforced by the new version of Liferay, or is it policy change by those doing the update, configuring it?

Or are those issues possibly to be addressed, given time and an overworked team doing it?

signed, curious one

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/12/16 12:18 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
The new forum is terrible. It is slow and you have to scroll much more.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/12/16 3:02 AM as a reply to Superkatze one.
I agree.
This new thing is a pain.
It seems that this new layout is optimized for mobile phones.
On a normal computer, it looks terrible.
I have no idea where to find the relevant information, I have to click on "more posts" several times, until I get to the latest post, and much less information fits on a single screen.

If it's possible, I would vote to get the 'old' forum layout back.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/12/16 3:55 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
So search is temporarily unavailable.  Ok, so Plan-B -- go back through the pages of threads to the last date I know a particular thread posted to find it.

NOT! The pages of threads HAVE NO DATES!, i.e. to page back looking for a time-frame.

AND lacking is the pull-down menu that used to allow selecting any particular previous page of threads (by number); now one has to click backwards one page at a time, and the feature is only at the bottom of the page (used to be at the top).

EDIT: Plan-c -- search through page by page -- did it, found what I looked for, took only 1/2 hour.
AND over "1 year ago" no finer resolution, i.e. "1 year, x months"; and "1 year ago seems to go into 2, 3 years ago-- "1 year ago" is worthless information.

Facit: The archives are virtually inaccessible.

This system is currently unusable (for discussion or effectivey using the archives).

Back when I was doing software QA at PARC-Place Systems, we had 3 crucial tests for passing a new release:
1) any show-stoppers?
2) new features work?
3) old features not broken?


Times have really changed.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/12/16 5:01 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Maybe a merger with of the DhO with awakenetwork.org wouldn't be a bad idea after all.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/12/16 5:46 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
I'm fairly confident most of the usability issues with the forum that were introduced with liferay 7 can be fixed one way or another, but honestly the negativity in this thread is kind of killing my motivation.

No one expected such large changes to the forum functionality from a single liferay upgrade. 
​​​​​​​
Anyway, I'm traveling for work the next few days but Manish is the liferay expert and I suspect he will keep working on the issues. 

Simon

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/12/16 6:12 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Simon EkstrandI'm fairly confident most of the usability issues with the forum that were introduced with liferay 7 can be fixed one way or another, but honestly the negativity in this thread is kind of killing my motivation.

No one expected such large changes to the forum functionality from a single liferay upgrade. 
​​​​​​​
Anyway, I'm traveling for work the next few days but Manish is the liferay expert and I suspect he will keep working on the issues. 

Simon
Dear All,
supporting,
It should be noted that Simon and Manish are both voluteers, with lives, jobs and other things to do. I am also, freely hosting, and paying for what expenses need to be paid for as those issues arise. That Manish and Simon give their time to help sort out Liferay's numerous complexities is amazing, and I, for one, am extremely grateful for their work.

The last time we upgraded Liferay, it literally took over a year. That this upgrade has happened so fast has been amazing. Please forgive the growing pains. This is a freely given website. Be grateful it exists, which it wouldn't without the continued support of its volunteer developers.

Thanks for finding the quirks. Hopefully, they will be ironed out as time permits.

As to merging with awakenetwork, we looked into that at the kind invitation of that sites owners some years ago, and, while it has its upsides, there are some cultural issues, such as discussions about entheogens, which occur here but apparently not there, as well as the more loose moderation culture here, that made it a bit tricky. Still, it is not out of the question at some point down the road, as those are very good people and their site works well.

Please, be kind to those who make all this possible.

Thanks,

Daniel
Founder, Owner, Scutmonkey, and Overlord of the DhO.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/17/16 8:57 PM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Has the live chat window been removed?  I found that a good feature.


I tend to agree with the comments above, and I see this a lot with IT 'upgrades' in various businesses.  I always write to them with the following suggestions:

- don't change anything that doesn't need changing
- if you are making a change, make sure it results in a significant improvement
- avoid making changes that make the site harder to use
- look at the site from the end user's POV, not from the POV of "Let's change this!"
- ease of use (simple intuitive layout, speed, readability) should be priorities
- when users give feedback, listen to it
- aim for less complexity and less steps rather than more (eg.  I want to read the recent posts - make that a one-click process rather than three).
- the worst possible thing an IT dept can do is to take a well functioning site and ruin it


Thanks.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/18/16 7:05 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
In this case I don't think the update was to specifically change things about the site, it was simply to upgrade to Liferay 7.x 

Simon didn't know that that upgrade would break so much functionality. 

Anyway, hope most of the old functionality can be brought back with a bit of tinkering, and would like to thank Simon for all the hard work!

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/18/16 7:16 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Yes, I forgot to thank SImon for doing the work on this.

Sometimes it's good to have both websites available whilst the alterations are being made.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/18/16 8:02 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
It is now too hard to get to the latest post especially for a thread that might have over 200 posts. I have to scroll down through them all to get to the last post. I think this has been mentioned before but it is preventing me from reading a lot of posts. I just don't have the time.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/19/16 11:14 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
I like Dharma Overground but it has become practically unusable for me after the upgrade. I'm fully aware of the volunteer nature of this effort and the limited resources available to manage this site and the underlying discussion group software. I'm willing to be patient and wait for the current spate of upgrade related issues to be fixed. Meantime, I'll just stop trying to keep up until I can keep up efficiently once again.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/19/16 1:01 PM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
First off I'd like to say a huge thank you to those who are volunteering what probably turned out to be much more than anticipated to manage this upgrade, on top of all your work on the site in general. I think many folks are unaware of the nature of this site, how it is funded, and how it is managed all through generosity, so perhaps some folks are, understandably in their ignorance, frustrated about losing access to such an awesome resource.

Second, I wonder if there is a consensus as to priority of usability issues, or if there has already been an effort behind the scenes by Daniel, Manesh, and Simon (and whoever else i may be leaving out) to prioritize which issues to tackle first with the limited volunteer time available.

Maybe it would be worthwhile if this isn't happening behind the scenes to do some kind of survey of users prioritizing the main issues that have been mentioned? Or maybe, if this conversation is or has happened behind the scenes, whatever was concluded wrt this could be shared here.

Apologies if this has already been addressed in this thread.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/19/16 3:09 PM as a reply to . Jake ..
. Jake .First off I'd like to say a huge thank you to those who are volunteering what probably turned out to be much more than anticipated to manage this upgrade, on top of all your work on the site in general. 
12345678
​​​​​​​I would like to ditto that comment.  The new format is really not all that bad, just have to scroll over to the right sometimes
if the thread tree is a long continuation.  Oh, and click More Messages, on the longer threads.  Everything else seems to be about the same.

There seems to be just a kind of a doldrums that has arisen, which will cease...

Society will have its incursions, to be sure...

Psi

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/19/16 4:03 PM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Hi, Thanks for the constructive (and some not so constructive) feedback. Primary issues currently being investigated: [list type="disc"] [*]Safari seems to have general problems with the site. We aren't sure why and neither I nor Manish have easy access to a Mac so reproducing the problem is difficult. If anyone with sufficient tech skills that is experiencing the problem would like to help that would be great [*]The updated forum has a number of problems, a lack of post tree for each thread, difficulty in finding new posts in threads. This is being worked on however it is not merely a configuration issue, the Liferay message board portlet will need customization. [/list]I think a couple of points are worth keeping in mind as I feel that they address a number of posts in this thread:[list type="disc"] [*]Not upgrading is not an option. Liferay like any piece of software has its share of security issues and not keeping up with releases puts us in a bad situation. [*]We have a very limited time budget to work with. DhO admin work is done in those few precious hours between the kids going to sleep and bedtime, which sets severe restrictions on what is possible to realistically achieve. Please keep this in mind when discussing our lack of professional Q&A processes. [/list]Recently fixed:[list type="disc"] [*]Most (all?) Liferay admin functions are finally working again. [*]The private messaging functionallity is running now thanks to Manish and Artem. [/list]Simon

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/19/16 7:29 PM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Paweł Kthere seems to be (I guess) some time limit on writing a post
when writing for too long nothing happens after clicking publish
better to always copy message to clipboard before posting anything

great PM work :-)
Aha, I had forgotten about that one.  I've had that happen also, I think I clicked the publish button, and it came back with a session timed out message or something to that effect, and all the writing was gone.  It was a couple of weeks ago, so yeah, as Pawel said, copy as you write.  

​​​​​​​Psi

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/19/16 7:54 PM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Fr.19.Aug.2016 5:53 PM PDT

1) "moving forward…" (Having worked in software development for several decades, though in a by-gone era, a prime skill was, IMO remains: finding work-arounds, as you (the team) no doubt know.)

1a) The problem of message nesting "hiding" the time-order of posts, difficulty of finding most recent: If we had a convention to ALWAYS reply to the "Main" thread (not to an individual post), then the order of posts would always reflect order of entry, and the most recent would always be at the end.

1b) If (as per 1a) the nested tree structure were flattened -- in those cases where one wishes to refer to a specific prior post, this can be explicitly added as preface, e.g.
"re: Simon Ekstrand, modified 46 Minutes ago."
My sense is that visual nesting isn't that critical most of the time. And, "46 Minutes ago" might be ok "right now", but later it's meaningless (i.e. when reading down-loaded copies of threads later off-line, which is my practice). And "1 hour ago", "1 day ago", etc. similarly, and progressively lacking in precision. (Image some new software release proposed eliminating floating-point precision, leaving only integers – because it's the new thing to do, to "upgrade" to, "easier" for users? This is no joke; much of what, say, Microsoft has done over the last several releases of Windows does exactly this.)

1c) If one wants the quotation-from-prior-message feature, especially replying to multiple quotations, one can open another browser page, do the reply-to-post, and copy-paste the quotation out into the new message being posted as "reply to thread". (I haven't tried that here yet, but it works, for instance, in the system the Dhamma- and Dharma-Wheel forums use.)

2) Add date-time stamp by hand in new posts – call it a mindfulness practice, keeping track of the here-and-now. If this were consistently practiced then "virtual" reply-to-post (as in 1b-1c above) could be specified crystal-clear.

3) Simon Ekstrand, modified 46 Minutes ago: "our lack of professional Q&A processes". This is forum heavy with geeks who could easily help with QA, e.g. given a modicum of reporting standards. And, when I did QA back at PARC-Place Systems (the "Smalltalk" company, 1990s), the all-time ace QA person we had was a house-wife* who had no technical background whatsoever, but was ingenious and had a "nose" for sniffing-out problems.
* not intended as sexist – perhaps "lay person"

Or does the not-uncommon technie culture of heroic go-it-alone take precedence? (From personal experience, this is s/t hard to recognize, let alone let-go of.)

These comments come from instincts acquired from extensive software and GUI-functionality QA experience, which are of a nature to be impersonal, and uncompromisingly stark. That's how it works professionally, IME. Metta doesn't count in evaluating the situation, though it factors into how to go about correcting the situation. (Actually, that sounds like how G. Buddha approached issues, though I wouldn't pretend that rough analogy goes any further here.)

Sincerely and hopefully constructively,
CJMacie

P.S. I looked through several websites about Liferay and what 7.x is supposed to offer; despite 30+ years of deep technical experience with GUI design and implementation, albeit ending two decades ago, I couldn't understand anything there. – Stark experience of in-your-face anicca, recognizing the built-in inevitable obsolescence of technical expertise.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/20/16 8:38 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
LIferay is an enterprise class software platform. It's complex and hugely functional. That said, it's not something that is well suited for a fairly limited functionality public website maintained by volunteers, like DhO. This is why the upgrades are so painful and take so long, why troubleshooting is so difficult. It's a product that larger businesses use for collaboration.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/23/16 9:44 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Is there any way to make the discussion topics look like they used to? The way the posts are threaded makes me not want to read any.

Secretly, I hope the answer is "no," since spending less time lurking here actually leaves me more time to practice emoticon

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/23/16 3:26 PM as a reply to Small Steps.
Small StepsIs there any way to make the discussion topics look like they used to? The way the posts are threaded makes me not want to read any.

Secretly, I hope the answer is "no," since spending less time lurking here actually leaves me more time to practice emoticon
Yes, we are working on getting the forum back into shape, hopefully it won't take to long.

​​​​​​​Simon

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/23/16 3:34 PM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris MartiLIferay is an enterprise class software platform. It's complex and hugely functional. That said, it's not something that is well suited for a fairly limited functionality public website maintained by volunteers, like DhO. This is why the upgrades are so painful and take so long, why troubleshooting is so difficult. It's a product that larger businesses use for collaboration.

True enough, however the DhO uses quite a number of features in Liferay. There really aren't that many alternatives when you want a single signon experience for forum, wiki, private messaging, multiple private sites etc.

The complexity is a bummer, however there are people involved in DhO maintainance with plenty of Liferay experience. I'm the only one that isn't familiar with Liferay outside of the DhO, and I was really only intending to help out with general server stuff, though i help out with Liferay as and when I can.

​​​​​​​Simon

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/23/16 3:37 PM as a reply to CJMacie.
The plan is to restore the original timestamps, restore the original thread ordering and get the thread tree up top running again. Once that's done things should hopefully be more useable again.

​​​​​​​Simon

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/24/16 7:19 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
The complexity is a bummer, however there are people involved in DhO maintainance with plenty of Liferay experience. I'm the only one that isn't familiar with Liferay outside of the DhO, and I was really only intending to help out with general server stuff, though i help out with Liferay as and when I can.

Good to know there is expertise available.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/25/16 1:20 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Simon Ekstrand:
The plan is to restore the original timestamps, restore the original thread ordering and get the thread tree up top running again. Once that's done things should hopefully be more useable again.​​​​​​​

Thanks for the welcome news!

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/25/16 10:59 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Hi Simon and others helping to maintain this site,

First of all, many thanks for your work on keeping up the DhO. Highly appreciated!

So my second point is not at all meant as a criticism or wanting to blame you for anything. Really just a report of my experience with the recent changes.

With the changes, I am mostly missing three points: the hierarchical tree structure of the posts at the level of the individual post, the information on who is the original poster at the level of "recent posts" and the search function to search for names of people or key words of what I am interested in (at least for me, the search function doesn´t work anymore). With these 3 functions having disappeared, unfortunately to me the DhO has lost its attractiveness to regularly follow what´s going on. Again, no blame, just a matter of fact.
Advantage of that: less time spent online ;)
Disadvantage: I´ve always found the forum extremely useful and have learned a lot here...

If these functions could be restored relatively easily and if it was a matter of funding to do that, I´d be happy to contribute to a crowdfunding effort emoticon

Caro

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/25/16 6:02 PM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Hi,

Update:
If all goes well there should be updates coming in to "fix" the forum in the next few days.

Simon

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/26/16 12:36 AM as a reply to Caro.
Caro
the search function to search for names of people or key words of what I am interested in (at least for me, the search function doesn´t work anymore). 
Here is, at least a temporary way , to search, using google, and, it can be used for any website.

http://blog.hubspot.com/marketing/how-to-do-a-google-site-search#sm.0000jd9hko4n7d4oz8c1e6d784oo3

Basically, go to google.com. , then enter  

site:www.dharmaoverground.com into the google search box like this link leads to: 

https://www.google.com/#q=site:www.dharmaoverground.org+

Then, if you wanted to search for something, for example , cessation, just type in same as above and type "cessation", will look like info in search box at link below,  like this 

https://www.google.com/#q=site:www.dharmaoverground.org+cessation


Noting

https://www.google.com/#q=site:www.dharmaoverground.org+noting


Anatta

https://www.google.com/#q=site:www.dharmaoverground.org+anatta


Can do the same with user names, can search for most anything really.

Just FYI, maybe most people already know this, but, if not it is a useful tool.

Psi

For fun , here is a search for noting on Access to Insight...

https://www.google.com/#q=site:www.accesstoinsight.org+noting


Anatta

https://www.google.com/#q=site:www.accesstoinsight.org+anatta

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/26/16 8:24 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Hi,

Well, the thread tree at the top of threads is back now.
The timestamps have also been replaced (only when viewing thread posts so far).
I think the "more posts" button should be gone for large threads also.

What is the general consenus, should the thread posts keep the threaded view with the blue lines or should they be put back in post/date order?

​​​​​​​Simon

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/26/16 10:19 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Simon EkstrandHi,

Well, the thread tree at the top of threads is back now.
The timestamps have also been replaced (only when viewing thread posts so far).
I think the "more posts" button should be gone for large threads also.

What is the general consenus, should the thread posts keep the threaded view with the blue lines or should they be put back in post/date order?

Simon
Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

I like the time ordering more than I do the subthread ordering, but I am fine with both.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/27/16 3:04 PM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
from: cjmacie 20160827 ca 01:00 PM

repy re: ​​​​​​​Simon 8/26/16 6:24 AM

Some feedback:

Having TOC at the top is helpful -- allows clicking an entry to quickly position to a post.

Not having the most recent post in a thread at the very bottom/end is a virtual"show-stopper" -- for a large thread, why bother trying to find it -- or, potentially far worse, the most recent bunch of messages since last looked at...

"More Posts" Button:
- having to use it to get further; but
+ with very large threads and the whole thing in the frame at once, s/t the scrolling becomes a pain (e.g. in Apple OS X 10.8)

"The timestamps have also been replaced (only when viewing thread posts so far)."
Rather better than nothing. One can get a sense of the overall life-time of the thread, i.e. see date of OP and who originated it.

"Modified <time-span> ago" is still pretty useless; slightly less so for immediate past, but still overly complicate the ability to see exact sequencing of posts.

It's encouraging that changes along these lines are possible, and actually evolving along. Thanks for the efforts (but especially for the results).

PS still missing "Preview", but not so critical as every imported post (composed externally, e.g. in MS-Word) still must be reformatted -- before "upgrade" had to be reformatted right away after paste-in; now paste-in looks good, but is all gets scrambled on "Publish" and one has to reformat in edit mode. Things will never be absolutely perfect, I suspose.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/27/16 7:27 PM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Instead of the original post appearing at the top of the thread, the last post is instead on top. The original post is not seen (until you hit reply to main thread).

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/27/16 8:19 PM as a reply to C P M.
Uh, yeah, that's bad. I have undeployed the changes, should have a fixed version ready tomorrow.

​​​​​​​Simon

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/28/16 6:57 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Hi,

I have deployed a new update that should fix some issues with the previous updates.

* The names of the posters are displayed again now.
* The top message when viewing a thread is now the real first message.
* Updated timestamps, now includes both the old and the new format.
* Old style timestamps are now displayed in the thread list (recent posts view).

Please let me know of any issues you find with the current set of updates. I am aware that a number of wanted features are still missing, no need to list those again.

Simon

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/28/16 7:00 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
This is going to be one of those council roadworks jobs that drags on for years, isn't it?  Like a sort of long term project with no time frames.

Don't blame members if they get sick of it all after a year or two.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
8/28/16 7:20 AM as a reply to This Good Self.
Hah, the last big update took about a year to work out all the kinks.

This time though I think we're making real progress and things might be back in order in a week or two.

The largest current issue with the forum looks/layout now I think is the post ordering in threads. Me and Manish are working on that.

Me and Daniel spent a few hours today working on the issue that Safari/IOS (Ipads etc) are having with the site and have at least determined that it is a Liferay issue and not anything related to the server or any DhO Liferay settings. The issue appears on a brand new Liferay install also. Daniel is calling in paid help for that one at this point so hopefully the Liferay professionals can deal with it.

Simon

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
9/1/16 6:43 PM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Whoa!

A moment ago everything was right-justified, and labels in some non-Roman scrip, e.g. לוחות מודעות
(Hebrew?)

e.g.
http://www.dharmaoverground.org/iw/web/guest/discussion/-/message_boards/message/443445?doAsUserId=U4FYRpmIICQ%3D%2F-%2Fmessage_boards%2Fmessage%2F419208%2F-%2Fmessage_boards%2Fmessage%2F551281%2F-%2Fmessage_boards%2Fview_message%2F5561363%2F-%2Fmessage_boards%2Fview_message%2F5678924&_19_advancedSearch=false&_19_keywords=&_19_delta=10&_19_resetCur=false&_19_threadView=flat&_19_cur=8&_19_andOperator=true

More "upgrading" in progress?

EDIT -- noticed, afterwards, at very top, about default language in Hebrew, English, ...

Why did it come up in Hebrew here (USA)? I didn't change any settings.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
9/8/16 9:10 PM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Hi Simon and Manish.

Thanks for keeping your wits about you while confronting the changes to the site.

I just wanted to say I do understand that you have said that the issues for Safari users will take paying someone to fix, and thanks very much for doing so.

I also wanted to reiterate that for any other people still having difficulty using Safari with this site that I have found how to get past a frozen page link.

For every step needed to post I have to reload the web page and keep my cursor above the place for the desired link. I wait until the page reloads, then for the page to reposition itself to where I was last, then quickly hit the link/word. If I do this quickly, it loads directly into the desired window. But when I look around on a page and then try clicking I just get a frozen state (with the blue strobing loading graphic at the top of the page). 

So be quick and nimble!

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
9/9/16 7:24 AM as a reply to David S.
Hi David,

Thanks for your input.

In the next few days we will most likely be migrating back to the previous version of Liferay/the DhO. The primary driver for this is the Safari/Mac/iOS problems with Liferay 7. There are to many people that are unable to use the site due to this issue (including Daniel himself which obviously weighs heavily as it's his site) and try as we might we have been unable to solve it. The problem is not DhO specific, we have reproduced it on brand new Liferay installations on a completely different server, and our search for a fix has been fruitless.

With that said, does anyone here see any problems with switching back to the previous version of Liferay? All message board posts, new user accounts etc. will be migrated back to the old database so nothing like that should be lost.

Thanks,
Simon

Strange goings-on here
Answer
10/7/16 4:02 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Fr.07.Oct.2016 1:45 AM PDT

Looking to see what's new, find some recent activity shown in "Recent Posts" for:
Thread:
Open Heart Bhumi Model
"Started by"
Kim Katami666576
"Last Post"
Date: 10/6/16 8:25 PM
By: Marty G


Open that thread; go to the bottom expecting to find a post by "Marty G" -- not there, just a post by "Sid".
So, go back to the top and scan the index -- no "Marty G" to be seen.
Well it's in the middle of the night, so start all over again -- but same results.

Try one more angle: copy the string "Marty G" out of "Recent Posts", and search for it in the OH Bhumi thread -- nothing, nichts, nada, rien,...

What am I missing here?

RE: Strange goings-on here
Answer
10/7/16 10:25 AM as a reply to CJMacie.
I'm guessing he changed the permisions for his post

Subscribe Me
Priority
[___________]
Allow Pingbacks
Permissions
Viewable by
[___________] More Options »

just a guess...cause when I look at the permissions i cant see anything wrong with it

RE: Strange goings-on here
Answer
10/7/16 5:21 PM as a reply to CJMacie.
Hi Chris, I think I can solve that mystery. I read Kim's post and wrote a quick response off the cuff and saved it as a draft, thinking it may be a little bit too abrasive to be useful to anyone. Then taking a look again accidently hit published. Then noticing this, deleted it, since the next person who posted seemed to cover the spirit of what I had to say, in a more benign and humorous manner. I guess if you save to draft, then publish and later delete, your username will stay as if published.

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
6/17/19 7:26 AM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Hi Simon

How do I change my ID on the message board? Paul

RE: List your DhO site problems here
Answer
6/17/19 3:45 PM as a reply to Simon Ekstrand.
Thanks for everyone who helps maintain this forum.
About issues with this site, I couldn't find any spell checker in the editor, or in the settings and etc. I don't know that the default editor has this option without extra work or plugin.., but it would be nice to have it, to prevent from mistakes while typing.
Thanks.