Hello everyone,
Today, as usual, I was focusing on the sensation of breath in my lower abdomen, and at one fairly brief moment, I noticed something like that the same sensation was in two places at once. I felt like they were still in my abdomen, but about 10 cm apart, one in front, one a bit behind, neither was the "truer" sensation, so to speak. Immediately after I also noticed that the sensation wasn't really in two places at once, but more like it flickered between the two.

It reminded me of something I saw Daniel talk about in an interview on BATGAP in which he talks about (this will be hard for me to explain...) the phenomenon of the mind looking at something from a perspective in order to think about it, e.g. if I think about a sensation in my back, then there is a habit of imagining it from the position of the eyes, or even from behind looking at the back.

I have also sometimes felt that breath sensation was in different places and not where I imagine the abdomen to be.

Does anyone know about/have any experience or suggestions about this?

The entire message is like sick persons breath. Its needy, greedy, painy. (to illustrate)

Nothing wrong with your techniques, its something much more ordinary. Like a person who sees something in a dream and tells the story to others in a way like he/she thinks it is real. The voice doesn't lie, he may think it is a dream but he still buys into it.
So its not like you are able to recieve any treatment if you still believe in fairies in a way they are pictured in a children book.

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In one word, you can watch breath all sorts of possible ways, but you actually need to see cause and effect, dependent origination etc. Where did you got the breath? what did you do to get breath? Maybe you should start with mindfulness practice, Satiphattana Sutta.

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don't take message personally, i mostly needed(urge) to post it. I now see no problem, it just i got rid of something in myself..this is how i help myself to get pass points.

Hi sfg sgd,

Thanks for your message, I must say I'm not really  sure what to make of it.
I can't see what in the original message the first line refers to.

Also, from the last comment quoted here it sounds like I should ignore the whole thing and wrote it in response to your feelings rather than the thread. Did I understand that correctly?

Forgive my lack of understanding, I have done my best to make sense of it

Same way i don't understand what you wrote. If i don't use intent to understand so then its just words in a row. If i try to make sense then i need to read enough long time, so there reactions happens thoughts coming into my mind, hmm nice i can write a reply, after hitting the reply i already have regrets and i forget why i even write.

So i must thank you, for being there.

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edit. now after some time of reflecting i got an idea or thonught why this happens, but i forget, so i need to use intent again to get that thought back...hmm fail i lost it.

There is a part of the mind whose job it is to keep track of where things are in space. As with other helpful subminds, it continually offers its services to consciousness, but it can go quiet during meditation. So there can be attention to breath (or other) sensations without their location being perceived.

Thanks for your honesty, I did get a strong sense that your first language was not English and I thought that there may be quite a bit that was complicated for you. It took me a fair amount of effort to make any sense of some of your messages in terms of sentence construction, choice of vocabulary and relevance of content. I would hope that you would do the same; it can sound quite serious when you say that an entire message is "need, greedy and painy" and use terms like "sick breath". Not that my level of attainment in meditation is high at all, but I don't think it should be taken seriously at all, because to understand this level of meaning, i.e. subtleties in the global context of a discourse that the author is not even aware of takes a highly refined knowledge of a language. Maybe next time if you don't understand something, you could ask someone?

Thanks very much Wardlaw, that's very interesting, I think there was still some perception of the location - do you think it could be some sort effect of this "submind" quietening, I mean a stage on the way to losing perception of the location?

if i can get pass this point in the internet or on any paper, then i don't need to get pass that point with real people. And next see the same thing happen between others and i am the observer. Also i will eventually get the one taste or feeling of it so i can get also breath and then can cultivate mind, i can get then pass this point by recalling or imagine. ---something like that.


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also that above logic is in the working and refining so it makes more and more sense itself every next circle.

I'm not quite sure precisely how this relates to the practice of meditation, but writing to people and speaking to real people in another language are definitely two different skills that need to be developed and practised separately. Of course development in writing can help development in speaking and vice versa, but the fluency needed for unhindered speaking will not come from just practising writing.

It does relate to meditation as a fundamental point. What i was still keeping in mind was that my own personal issue(mentioned in first post here made by me). You yourself are stuck with understanding and language usage, and i am not, i have different issues.

And by writing it i got pass another point. I was stuck and didn't know what to do, i realized something and then now im writing this post. Isn't that a meditation too..to give sensate difference: i felt hot, now im feeling cool. Also i use breath, but not as only means but as an ingredient.

So to answer your topic, do what you have to do. Eradicate the flickering if you can or see it as an obstacle. Get what is the meaning of result, you need to get a result out of your doing and the reason for doing the practice should disappear also.
Issue returns then just repeat the process and eventually you can do it more simply, faster etc or something else you discover what allows to switch to different practice/doing/living.

Stuck in jhanas or pleasant states is you do the practice to get pleasant states and don't get no result and/or eradication the reason why you do it.(for example)

Culadasa calls this mental function "spatial binding," and he says it can begin to drop away during the mental pacification of stage 6. The breath can seem to be in the wrong location, because the whole-body awareness has been decoupled from attention, which is exclusively on the breath sensations.