Kasina and the formless realms

Jamess, modified 4 Years ago at 9/13/17 11:42 PM
Created 4 Years ago at 9/13/17 11:42 PM

Kasina and the formless realms

Posts: 17 Join Date: 9/1/17 Recent Posts
Hi, i´ve been practising  the fire kasina for a very short time and im already at the third jhana which really please me, my question is when you get the 4th jhana how do you shift to the formless realms in this case? i dont see any real guidelines out there.en 
junglist, modified 4 Years ago at 9/14/17 12:19 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 9/14/17 12:19 AM

RE: Kasina and the formless realms

Posts: 232 Join Date: 1/25/17 Recent Posts
Hey, I just listened to the recording Daniel, Florian and Duncan made about their fire kasina retreat (firekasina.org, I assume you know about it: https://firekasina.org/2015/02/17/retreat-summary/) yesterday. In the second part Daniel said he couldn't get any formless realms at all, because of something along the lines of being too attached to the imagery. I haven't read much of what else is there though.

That's cool, how long is a very short time?
Jamess, modified 4 Years ago at 9/14/17 12:43 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 9/14/17 12:43 AM

RE: Kasina and the formless realms

Posts: 17 Join Date: 9/1/17 Recent Posts
I´ve been meditating for about 4 weeks and doing kasina for about 1 week, im really happy with my progress. Yes i listen the audios too. The question is still remaining.
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Daniel M Ingram, modified 4 Years ago at 9/14/17 12:55 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 9/14/17 12:55 AM

RE: Kasina and the formless realms

Posts: 3231 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
It is true that on my Fire Kasina retreat in 2015 at the tower the colors wouldn't stop once they got going, as I was giving those my all, and that had some momentum to it, so I couldn't get into what I think of as formless realms, which don't have any color except to speak of, though it is hard not to think of Nothingness as anything other than black, and it is hard to think of Boundless Consciousness as being any color other than a "color" I will loosely call "mirror" or "clear light".

That said, on my retreat in February, when I was doing a mix of practices, mostly kasina, some otherwise, I was able to get into formless realms by the usual methods, which for me is just to send my mind in that direction and watch it go there, but that hardly helps if you are trying to access them for the first time.

Thus, I present three methods:

1) Get your concentration so strong that your mind will do whatever you want it to do, colors, formless realms, powers, traveling, images, realms, whatever, and just walk up the jhanas from 1-4 and then simply ask for boundless space and the rest to arise. That, for most people, will take very good practice conditions and some time and talent.

2) Get up to the 4th jhana and get used to it, established in it, good at it, so that you can be in it and notice some things about it. You might notice that it is wide, diffuse, open, expansive, and has a sense of transparency, a sense of boundlessness, and how cool those aspects are. Just hang out in the 4th jhana noticing these aspects, getting more familiar with with them, more comfortable with them, and, if you are lucky, at some point there will come a shift, and that shift will be into taking those aspects as object, which is one way to get to boundless space. This how a person who is more on the attractive/desirious side of practice and personality might proceed.

3) Get up into the 4th jhana and get used to it, established in it, good at it, so that, over time, finally you become naturally bored with it, detached from it, so that you have gotten over it, are uninterested in it, but just keep paying attention to that detatchment from the equanimity, the neutral bodily feeling, the peace, and all of that. This is not something that one can fake, but something that will just arise given time. When one no longer has any natural interest in all of that but is still practicing, the mind might shift away from those things to just vastness. This is how a person who is more on the aversive side of practice and personality might proceed.

Any of that help?

Best wishes in your adventures!

Daniel

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