Is the fastest way reach SE to do insight when being in jhana

Mathew Poskus, modified 3 Years ago.

Is the fastest way reach SE to do insight when being in jhana

Posts: 208 Join Date: 10/24/15 Recent Posts
Hello im thinking of doing 10 days home retreat just for dry Noting  ,but i was thinking maybe the "faster way" is to develop jhana and then easily go throught the insight stages with "right concentration" than just doing 10 days dry noting? P.S. im little bit scaried to do dry Noting because i read here some post from Tom Tom that noting when deppresed (iam now recovering from it )can lead to psychosis or i can again fall back to deppression ,well maybe somebody got to know theese thing and can give me some advice?
Yilun Ong, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: Is the fastest way reach SE to do insight when being in jhana

Posts: 623 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
I don't think anyone can answer that question since no one can possibly test both but to be frank on paper that sounds fantastic. In practice, unless you are already quite enlightened, your samatha jhana's will not fire at will and you will still need to deal with the Vipassana foreground/background ANYHOW.

What is going to make your self-retreat/meditation attempts a failure are the same 5 hindrances. As you noted yourself, you are having doubts, fear and anxiety. You need to overcome them beforehand and come up with mechanisms to slap yourself awake when meditating because the likelyhood that they will pop up during practice is almost certain. Anyone can/will tell you that all you need to know to practice, you already know. But that is not going to erase those hindrances, so look within and conquer them <- that is VERY powerful practice itself. If there is anything to say to help you: Stop reading, the more you know the harder it is. Start by strengthening samatha, build confidence with Vipassana before jumping into a 10 day retreat. Heroism -> Stupidity?

I hope you can see that you are trying to run away. The whole game is about facing and slapping your demons, no?

Good Luck! Sorry about the language, testing "Free" Speech. :p
shargrol, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: Is the fastest way reach SE to do insight when being in jhana

Posts: 1488 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
Matthew it is very individual. What are you currently practicing?
Mathew Poskus, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: Is the fastest way reach SE to do insight when being in jhana

Posts: 208 Join Date: 10/24/15 Recent Posts
Im currently practice tibetan Samatha meditation and trying to look at 3 c's with excercises that i read at MTCB
shargrol, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: Is the fastest way reach SE to do insight when being in jhana

Posts: 1488 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
Cool! What is normal practice routine on a normal day? What happens during a typical practice session?

About how much are your practicing in a normal week (in terms of total time)?
Mathew Poskus, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: Is the fastest way reach SE to do insight when being in jhana

Posts: 208 Join Date: 10/24/15 Recent Posts
1.well i look at picture of buddha create in my mind picture stare at ground with that image in my mind trying to holding picture and bump out all thoughts ,2 hours a day . 2.then i look at No self  just close my eyes and surrender to fact everything happening on their own like Daniel sad ,(yesterday my mind just played whole faking song with some video clip of it )30 min3.looking at unsatisfatory as Daniel sad just try to look at urges to do something ,why i want that or just try to look to thought trying to find urges that make stories and etc. i understand we like machines of suffering the discomfort allways keep as moving ,wanna change that and that and its like nonstop , i dont know something like this ,im not enlighted ,so iam very duobtful about myself and practice but well atleast i know jhanas is true because i hitted with this Tibetan technique in 1 month before 2 years and i thought yeah im fucking enlightened ,in that time i didnt know what was even jhana ,than it weared off i felt like withdrawl from most awsesome thing happened in my life, got again clinicaly deppresed and now after 2 years im trying to get it again but in my mind its impermanent state so i dont crave it so much now, just to get concentration to do vippassana
shargrol, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: Is the fastest way reach SE to do insight when being in jhana

Posts: 1488 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
From the reports on this website, people have mixed approaches for the fastest way to Stream Entry. I'm probably biased, but I found that I made more progress by really settling into meditation and letting the mind itself decide when to do jhana and when to do noting. If my mind was clearly in jhana, I would allow it to condition my mind and when I was in a vague or more busy mind state, I would gently note. I would drop noting again if I fell back into jhana. 

For what it is worth, I would try mixing in noting as part of your normal practice before deciding to do it on a retreat. Maybe try it for a month (which would be about 30-60 hours of practice time) before doing it for 10 days (which would be 160 hours of practice time)  emoticon
Mathew Poskus, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: Is the fastest way reach SE to do insight when being in jhana

Posts: 208 Join Date: 10/24/15 Recent Posts
i did noting i past 2 years but now its feels mantra like dry noting with mind frustration all overit so i dropped it ,i just notr and just get frustrated and thats it emoticon and i think i just looked at impermanence without other two maybe i should note and try to look at 3cs  all together
matthew sexton, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: Is the fastest way reach SE to do insight when being in jhana

Posts: 313 Join Date: 1/14/14 Recent Posts
my 2 cents, to add to the otherwise good advise above, is to sit for an hour at a time, re-arrange your seating arrangements to make this easier, but at some point just commit to sitting still for an hour, treat it like it's the most important thing in your life and practice nonjudgmental, non reactive awareness of what happens. Always have a particular physical point or feeling as a direct object to focus on. 'Note' what gets between you an the object if you like, then get back to it. This, more or less, was advise that was good for me, but might be bad advise for you!
Yilun Ong, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: Is the fastest way reach SE to do insight when being in jhana

Posts: 623 Join Date: 8/7/17 Recent Posts
IMO, the thing that is the same, the thing that works for all methods is:

Be positively interested in observing sensations arise and pass away. 


You mentioned frustration with noting. Well, do not note! If you can stay curious with a healthy attention (of not drifting away on thought clouds), silent observation is arguably the best. This silent curiousity paves way for a natural deepening of concentration into whatever you are observing, showing/vibrating more as it absorbs your attention. You are overly engrossed in the intellectual side of things. Forget the 3Cs - they are obstructing in that you are attempting to develop insight from the wrong tree. You will recognize the insights when they arise, there is nothing to understand about them from reading or getting frustrated over.

A good strategy if you must employ the 3Cs:

1. Congratulate yourself on observing things come and go without your control. (Impermanence)
2. Anything that is unpleasant, you know them as unpleasant but you do not do anything: Not adding the layer of avoiding or wishing to change them. Label all thoughts/doubts/worries about practice as (Suffering).
3. Watch all of them without attempting to control anything. This shows clearly all of that is (Not-Self). 

Your only job is to observe from the most neutral place possible, exert minimal control and letting go will show you how to release suffering.
Mathew Poskus, modified 3 Years ago.

RE: Is the fastest way reach SE to do insight when being in jhana

Posts: 208 Join Date: 10/24/15 Recent Posts
Thanks for reply ,yilun ong good point "be positvely interested in observing sensations arise and pass away" i forget that and jus roboticly noted for sake of noting emoticon

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