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vipassana/kundalini: an idle thought fron an umenlightened perspective

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erm... It just occurred to me that vipassana may be a process operating from the outside inwards, each path clears levels deeper in the the mind, and kundalini may be a process that operates from the inside outwards, causing pain when blockages are hit and a feeling of lack of control.  Insight practices may trigger the K (sic) if they happen to hit the right spot...
Following Culadassa's mind model, given a cessation/blip then you get a new path if enough sub minds are listening, or if you hit the right ones then you get a K experience or awakening.

does that make any sense or would you all like to shoot me down in flames?
if it makes semse than can any practical benefit be obtained?

all in the spirit of enquiry and pragmatism :-)

RE: vipassana/kundalini: an idle thought fron an umenlightened perspective
Answer
12/17/17 12:21 PM as a reply to baba ganoush.
I’m not sure about outside/in versus inside/out, are these metaphors for something? Because in reality these distinctions between in and out etc are just concepts. Where is the line that separates in and out? 
Do you mean control versus no control or, in other words, shamatha versus vipassana? For me Kundalini has been like putting my practice on autopilot, when allowing surrender at least. The job is just to get out of the way and let the process take over. In my experience and limited practice knowledge, the only way to engender seeing things clearly as they are (vipassana) is to give up every last modicum of effort (shamatha) so that awareness can see/be emptiness. Otherwise, through effort, there is always some subtle displeasure, some striving to get somewhere else that is not exactly where we are, that reifies an imagined self (in versus out) and solidifies that which is in constant non-graspable flux, through fixation and making ideas of things. 
Non-attachment, joy, fearlessness and compassion are the fruits. Seeing emptiness and lack of a doer makes the discomfort of striving and efforting more pronounced, or so it seems. At least it is seen as a futile avoidance of reality, which is too much to handle, in one way or another. 
Anyway your description of the K process sounds right to me, plenty of pain and lack of control and trying to control only makes it worse.

RE: vipassana/kundalini: an idle thought fron an umenlightened perspective
Answer
12/17/17 9:20 PM as a reply to baba ganoush.
Hi baba ganoush,

I have a theory that kundalini or prana as its called in Sanskirt is caused by the rewiring of the brain at a level below the cortical body map so that parts of the brain which previously weren't connected become connected. The prana flows occur as activation of the cortical body map from, say, the pleasure or pain centers. The activation and connection happens as part of the vipassana process, by becoming aware of the body in the body.

If this admittedly objective and scientific explanation turns you off, then consider the cortical body map to be the subtle body and the rewiring to be purifying the subtle body and connecting up to be becoming aware of different parts of the subtle body and their interconnection, where the subtle body is the interface between the body and the mind.

That said, I have no proof for this theory. I've often wondered when one of the academics running research programs in contemplative sciences would put someone undergoing a kundalini awakening under an fMRI and see what exactly was happening in their brain.

RE: vipassana/kundalini: an idle thought fron an umenlightened perspective
Answer
12/18/17 1:19 AM as a reply to Daniel - san.
Daniel - san:
I’m not sure about outside/in versus inside/out, are these metaphors for something? Because in reality these distinctions between in and out etc are just concepts. Where is the line that separates in and out?
Sorry for being vague... there's no line, it's just a direction. And please excuse me trying to express stuff i don't know from experience :-)

I was thinking in terms of the way we model reality, from an early age we develop some working hypothesis about stuff/ the world and as we get older these idea develop and get added to, i imagine in layers.  So removing the top/outside layers first causes less disturbance, but removing or changing the stuff at the bottom/inside leaves the stuff on top in conflict/ unsupported. If that's the case then vipassana would be a more gentle process than kundalini, and why people say to be careful.

(folk psychology i'm afraid)

edit: on reflection ... vipassana would necessarily work on quite a deep ie non surface level, so i'm rubbishing my own confused thoughts here.  Ah the power of thinking out loud!  Ooops.  Mybe the two cannot be compared in those terms?

RE: vipassana/kundalini: an idle thought fron an umenlightened perspective
Answer
12/20/17 7:18 AM as a reply to baba ganoush.
What I have been thinking about kundalini recently is that it's something that you can use for emotional healing and has a different purpose to vipassana. When someone starts vipassana they go through A&P where they may or may not encounter illumination events or kundalini kriyas. The illumination experience can help you with your samatha meditation because you can use the light (and/or sound) to get to jhanas easier. The kundalini kriyas can help you with emotional healing although in the beginning it feels like the opposite because it stirs things up.

Kundalini kriyas may be experienced as odd sensations like tingling to begin with and jerks, but sometimes it's as if there's a higher intelligence that takes control of your body producing spontaneous vocalizations eg laughter or crying or spontaneous movements.

So what could happen is that your vipassana is working well, you've got the light nimitta to help you with the jhanas and you've got the kundalini to help you with the emotional healing. That's a balanced development which is what your system is crying out for. There can be problems with kundalini though, like not being able to turn it off, but then that's like vipassana. There's a no turning back point.

RE: vipassana/kundalini: an idle thought fron an umenlightened perspective
Answer
12/20/17 1:27 PM as a reply to Andrew McLaren Lewis.
Does 'illumination' still manifest for someone who meditates with the eyes open? I've gone through the A&P and had the strange tingles and jerks along with a high-pitched tone(Still hard to tell if it's a direct result of A&P or just my tinnitus flaring up) in my ears but didn't have light phenomena happening.

I don't know about eyes open. Culadasa writes that some people never get the illumination phenomenon and so are unable to use his 'luminous jhanas' method of entering jhanas. However, they could still use the 'pleasure jhanas' method (which seems to be what most people use) or the 'whole-body jhanas' method. However, just because you don't get it now, it doesn't mean that you'll never get it. It can be indistinct to begin with, and when you turn your attention to it it fades away.

One thing I wonder though is can people not use both inner light and inner sound? I know Buddhists talk about using nimitta which is the inner light but what would happen if they used both? I'm only asking because I used to be involved in a cult where they use both inner light and inner sound. In the Santmat and Radhasoami traditions they use both.