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Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat

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Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat Norbert 1/24/18 6:07 AM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat Yilun Ong 1/24/18 7:35 AM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat Yilun Ong 1/24/18 7:46 AM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat Jinxed P 1/24/18 11:42 AM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat Bigbird 1/24/18 3:12 PM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat Norbert 2/1/18 2:45 AM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat Yilun Ong 2/1/18 5:38 AM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat seth tapper 2/1/18 9:16 AM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat Yilun Ong 2/1/18 4:37 PM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat seth tapper 2/1/18 5:09 PM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat Yilun Ong 2/1/18 9:12 PM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat seth tapper 2/1/18 9:38 PM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat Yilun Ong 2/1/18 9:43 PM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat seth tapper 2/1/18 9:51 PM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat Yilun Ong 2/1/18 10:12 PM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat seth tapper 2/1/18 10:15 PM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat Yilun Ong 2/1/18 10:18 PM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat seth tapper 2/2/18 12:32 AM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat Yilun Ong 2/2/18 3:40 AM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat seth tapper 2/2/18 9:22 AM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat Yilun Ong 2/2/18 10:01 PM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat Norbert 2/1/18 2:30 AM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat Yilun Ong 1/26/18 5:46 AM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat Ward Law 1/26/18 9:13 AM
RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat Norbert 2/1/18 2:21 AM
Hi all,

I got back from a longer Vipassana retreat (50 days) in Myanmar recently, and would like to share some of my experiences. While I made some good progress and gained insights on the way, it also left me quite bewildered and confused in some areas. I have the hope that some of you may be able to help me put things into context, and maybe point me to further resources for explanation. I‘ll start with some background that may be relevant, then describe the retreat experience, and wrap up with where I am standing now.

Some background
I went on a retreat about 18 months ago, where I crossed the A&P. It was accompanied by wild bodily shaking, seeing lights of different colors, bliss and high mental clarity. During that retreat, my body would also spontaneously go into postures / kriyas, some of which I knew from my kundalini yoga classes (e.g. head spins, sufi circles, back bends). That felt mostly pleasant, like some physical energies were unblocked, so I just let it be. I could sometimes bend my body into postures that are impossible to perform for me in everyday life. I attributed it to high concentration and enjoyed the ride emoticon

In another retreat about 9 months ago I went through the dark night, or so I thought. There were phases of fear, sadness and big frustration. My daily practice after that retreat was characterized by slowly but steadily increasing equanimity.

Also, I have had a high pitched ringing in my right ear for a few years. It hardly bothered me before this retreat. My doctor could not find any organic causes, acupuncture and some other methods did not bring about any changes.

Retreat experience
During the first weeks of this retreat, I saw steady progress. Both mindfulness and concentration increased quite continuously. There were moments of tranquility, peace and bliss that match what I read in MCTB about some of the samadhi jhanas. My attention became more and more panoramic and inclusive, and I began to experience formations. There was hardly any pain, and I could sit for hours. In short, life was good emoticon

But something was off. The high pitched ringing in my ear started to bother me. It became louder. My mental state started to destabilize, and I had stretches of fear and sadness. Equanimity was still there, but I had the impression of losing momentum, and not seeing progress any more. I started having difficulties staying with the breath (the primary object in that meditation) because of the ringing, and became more and more apprehensive.

Along with the increasing noise, there were all kinds of haptic sensations going on both on the surface and deep inside my head: tingling, pulling, stretching, pressure. It felt like some electrical vortexes were raging in there, rewiring my brain.

Things became so noisy that I had nights with little or no sleep at all. I lost most of my equanimity and experienced great fear, paranoia, deep despair and depression. I could not see the end of it. I self-diagnosed that I was back in the dark night, in the middle of a very nasty reobservation. It did not make any sense to me, after being so deep in equanimity, I was entirely lost and confused. Nevertheless, I kept pushing.

The vortexes kept raging, but losing some of their intensity. The sounds and haptic sensations started moving from deep inside my head, closer to the right ear, the volume decreased, and they lost more and more of their trouble. Equanimity returned slowly. There were still a lot of swings in mental state, but their amplitude decreased and they became easier to bear.

I noticed that the sound was very dynamic. When focusing on the breath, I observed my body vibrating. Sometimes these bodily vibrations became very subtle, and so did the sound. When there was high acceptance to the vibrations, the sound became very soft or almost disappeared. When there was more resistance, or solidity in some parts of the body, the sound became louder again.

I also noticed a lot of pressure sensations along the head and spine in various places. Could be on the forehead, the neck, or lower back. Along with that came the urge for spontaneous postures again during and outside of meditation. It felt like the body tried to balance the pressures with these movements, and I could either let it be or suppress it with willpower.

Current situation
I am back home now. The sound is back to a bearable level (but still louder than before the retreat). I sleep better again, but it is still not optimal, and I feel tired during the day sometimes. My emotions are still amplified and quite strong sometimes, but I keep noting it and see progress. My body feels quite blocked energetically, with pressure and other discomforting sensations along the back and head. I do yoga and sports regularly to get back into balance physically.

I am wondering where to go from here, and hope some of you guys can help me:
  • Should I continue meditating or stop for some time? Right now I am doing 1 hour of sitting per day. It requires quite some effort, and I am mainly doing it because I am not keen to fall back into reobservation and want to  cultivate more equanimity again.
  • I did some reading on kundalini energy and am wondering if I activated it somehow with this retreat. All these sensations of pressure and blocking along the spine, together with the spontaneous kriyas makes me think that something is going on. My idea is to practice kundalini yoga regularly now (as I did before the retreat, but more often now). In addition, I want to let my body run wild with these spontaneous movements from time to time, as it feels beneficial and balancing.
  • How should I handle this sound? Ignore it? Make it the primary object of my meditation? I read some things about the nad / nada sound, but just like with kundalini, I am not sure if it is relevant or applies to me.

That's my story for now. I am grateful for any help and pointers!
Norbert

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
1/24/18 7:35 AM as a reply to Norbert.
The first thing to overcome whether you had a Kundalini Awakening or treading in the Dark Night is FEAR. It may seem like it is going to break something but know that you will not be harmed by it. Summon the courage to face it till the same set of symptoms cause no fear to arise - you move from losing the fear, to trusting the process, to having faith in it and ideally you can summon gratitude and reverence thereafter.

Everything else: All you can do is be mindful of whatever happens. If it isn't clear that you have no control, notice that and surrender to it whilst maintaining a healthy, respectful curiosity, you sound like you are having an aversion to the DN, try dropping that and rest in the clarity of the subtle goal to observe it all with all the equanimity you can possibly summon. Relook equanimity, is it on a higher level than you know it to be? Raise the bar, check your facial, shoulder, neck muscles periodically to be sure that they are relaxed. Do you make subtle aversion body movements? Be mindfully relaxed into the dance.

Be happy that your perceptive capabilities have increased, keep up the good work with noticing the sound - it will continue to reveal greater sensitivities if you keep it up. Do whatever with it as you please, but I doubt you can use it as a calming meditation object with all the other din going on.

Just resolve to sit to overcome all fear for the next 3 sits and let us know the good news... emoticon

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
1/24/18 7:46 AM as a reply to Norbert.
Along with the increasing noise, there were all kinds of haptic sensations going on both on the surface and deep inside my head: tingling, pulling, stretching, pressure. It felt like some electrical vortexes were raging in there, rewiring my brain.
Replying these is of secondary concern:

1. Do these go on, even when off-the-cushion?

2. If yes, does it get more intense when relaxed? Having the highest intensity when deep in meditation?
3. During night-time especially before sleep?
4. Noticing that it is going on in sleep or waking up to it going on?

May you learn to be free from Suffering! emoticon


RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
1/24/18 11:42 AM as a reply to Norbert.
Norbert,

 Everything you have described, including the sound might be a manifestation of a process called "Pacification of the senses".  In a nutshell, what is going is that as you get into deep concentration, with exclusive focus on the meditation object, in order to be able to fully be  with the meditation object and nothing else, the senses must become pacified. However, during this process of pacification, the senses seem to throw up one last bout of resistance, and will throw the kitchen sink at you! 

Hence all the weird sensations of tingling, pressure, sound, etc. This is a normal process, and if you plug along, just letting the weird sensations, body movements, lights and sounds be, they will eventually pacify. You are right, your brain is re-wiring and these manifestations of piti are a sign of progress! Good job!

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
1/24/18 3:12 PM as a reply to Jinxed P.
Hi Jinxed P,
i read this pacification of the senses process in Andrew McLaren Lewis's post in the other current Kundalini thread and knew it was TMI.

Although i followed traditional Satipatthana practice, i was quite comfortable with your way or TMI's way of describing it. So i Googled it! Having been through the extremes of what is commonly called the Kundalini process, Culadasa's stuff is excellent Dharma. If you go to page 249 number 7- thats what i called- when awareness takes the entire energy field as the object- only because i had no name for it- its a wonderfull 24/7 experience, and one of the many outcomes of applying the Buddha's teachings to Kundalini.

Also of interest is number 6, last sentence- One of the benefits of doing body scanning and experiencing the whole body with the breath is that you become familiar and more comfortable with these energy sensations earlier- (Yilun that is Goenke). I bought a copy last year and read a few pages. I was impressed with the detailed instructions at the beginning of his practice- so i gave it to my daughter. 

Norbert- what your talking about can be called Kundalini stuff-and most often is. Your observation of the relationship with the sound and resistance or solidity in the body is spot on and can be used as indicator. There's many ways you could make use of the sound. All your other stuff is good observation and understanding.
Where things can go wrong is if one gets caught in the conceptual minefield that accompanies Kundalini-or gets blindsided into believing that somehow the experiences of Kundalini(especially the extreme energetics) are not on the list of the foundations of mindfullness-which lead to Nibbana- as prescribed by the Buddha. From what i have seen, minds in this process we often call Kundalini, tend to gravitate more easily to the endless concepts of Samsara than the Buddha's guidance to Nibbana. I guess its a habit!
I would recommend Caladusa's explanations-as it stays on the Buddha's path. At the end of the day the exact correct explanation of Kundalini phenomena won't matter if you stick to the Buddha's path, as it all fades away.
AND currently $17.67 AUS from Amazon.

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
1/26/18 5:46 AM as a reply to Norbert.
How are you Norbert? Some inspiration from Shinzen Young to brave your storm:
"If Nature (or 'God') has given you so much pain that you cannot do anything else other than be with it, then there is a message here: you are not expected to be doing anything else! In other words, spending time -- even long periods of time -- just feeling pain is a legitimate calling in the eyes of God and Nature. Assuming that you are making at least some effort to purify and evolve consciousness by being with pain in a skillful way, you are engaged in productive and meaningful work." (from Break Through Pain)

He goes on to say that not only is this inner work valuable for us as individuals; it is also a contribution to the rest of the world:

"...whenever a person does something, it makes it easier for others to do that thing, even though the others may have no direct contact with or even knowledge of the original person's work... According to this theory, a person isolated and cut off from contacts, who is working to purify through pain, is in some way making it easier to all other sufferers in the world to do the same; a worthwhile and meaningful job indeed!"


RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
1/26/18 9:13 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Re Shinzen's second point: Rupert Sheldrake would agree. Anyone interested in this claim should check out his work.

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
2/1/18 2:21 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Yilun Ong:
How are you Norbert? Some inspiration from Shinzen Young to brave your storm:

Hi Yilun!

Sorry for the late reply, I had some difficulties accessing my account here.

I am a bit better now. The Kundalini symptoms have calmed down somewhat, only the occasional spontaneous kriya remains. There was quite a lot of fear (as you also point out), and there still is some of it, but I just note it and move on. Also very good hint with the relaxing of the muscles, my neck is stiff sometimes indeed on and off the cushion. Regarding your 4 secondary questions: for the time during the retreat, I could answer all of them with "yes". Right now, the haptic stuff only goes on occasionally (on and off the cushion).

My yoga practice and regular exercise seems to balance the body quite well, so I'll keep combining that with 1 or 2 hours of daily sitting and see how it goes.

What I note quite frequently now is a frustration that meditation seems to be more difficult (unpleasant and requiring more effort) than before this long retreat - I try to keep a long-term perspective, but it is not always easy. Also, I still have some trouble sleeping. Waking up 3 times or more per night, sometimes lying awake for an hour or longer. Good opportunity for lying meditation, but I'd prefer some restful sleep now and then emoticon

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
2/1/18 2:30 AM as a reply to Jinxed P.
Jinxed P:
Norbert,

 Everything you have described, including the sound might be a manifestation of a process called "Pacification of the senses".  In a nutshell, what is going is that as you get into deep concentration, with exclusive focus on the meditation object, in order to be able to fully be  with the meditation object and nothing else, the senses must become pacified. However, during this process of pacification, the senses seem to throw up one last bout of resistance, and will throw the kitchen sink at you! 

Hence all the weird sensations of tingling, pressure, sound, etc. This is a normal process, and if you plug along, just letting the weird sensations, body movements, lights and sounds be, they will eventually pacify. You are right, your brain is re-wiring and these manifestations of piti are a sign of progress! Good job!
Hi Jinxed, thanks for the encouraging words. I did some research on the "pacification of the senses" and found out about Culadasa's work. Very interesting indeed, ordered the book straight away. My senses throw a lot at me indeed these days, especially hearing, but I'll keep noting it.

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
2/1/18 2:45 AM as a reply to Bigbird.
Bigbird:

Norbert- what your talking about can be called Kundalini stuff-and most often is. Your observation of the relationship with the sound and resistance or solidity in the body is spot on and can be used as indicator. There's many ways you could make use of the sound. All your other stuff is good observation and understanding.
Where things can go wrong is if one gets caught in the conceptual minefield that accompanies Kundalini-or gets blindsided into believing that somehow the experiences of Kundalini(especially the extreme energetics) are not on the list of the foundations of mindfullness-which lead to Nibbana- as prescribed by the Buddha. From what i have seen, minds in this process we often call Kundalini, tend to gravitate more easily to the endless concepts of Samsara than the Buddha's guidance to Nibbana. I guess its a habit!
I would recommend Caladusa's explanations-as it stays on the Buddha's path. At the end of the day the exact correct explanation of Kundalini phenomena won't matter if you stick to the Buddha's path, as it all fades away.
AND currently $17.67 AUS from Amazon.
Hi Bigbird,

that's some very good word of warning emoticon

All the acustic and haptic sensations sidetracked me indeed. I could not place them into the context of the foundations of mindfulness and started looking for other explanations. Also, my teachers on retreat did not comment specifically on them, other than saying that these sensations may eventually go away. 

So now I find myself in a bit of a dilemma: my meditation practice is difficult at times with all these sensations going on. On the other hand, Kundalini yoga alleviates some of the problems, but its teachings bring a whole new host of concepts which I find hard to reconcile with the simple Theravada teachings.

I am reading TMI at the moment to see what Culadasa has to say about meditation and Kundalini.

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
2/1/18 5:38 AM as a reply to Norbert.
Glad to hear that you are well! I wouldn't keep up the "trying hard to know what it is" attitude and just be open to whatever happens. This acceptance of "come what may" is also the key to good sleep - if the symptoms are raging, simply being perfectly okay with them will put you to sleep in no time...

Check: what do the simple teachings of Theravadin, not apply to all of whatever happens? The same mindfulness of mind/body/feelings/dharma, the same acceptance/letting go, same investigation followed by understanding/overcoming all forms of suffering (fear: is noting a form of escape?/misery/disgust/etc. <-go to the very depths, the gold lies at the bottom!) applies, etc. etc. Explore this and it will give you much peace of mind, followed by trust in your practice/the process, then you can look forward to the goodies right round the corner.

WRT yoga or any pranayama that you are doing, if they are helping then like exercising/sensible diet (not mentioned in Sutta's from what I know), do as much as it is beneficial, no? Add Qigong or martial arts if that helps heh.

You will explore and only through that, come to your own knowing of what is happening e.g. noticing patterns: increasing/cutting off/attitude/approach to meditation; and how to best manage it. Be your own guru through your own experience, though reading may help to assuage some fear/uncertainty. BUT IME, effort is better spent to find peace/joy with the unknown - an important step to non-duality or wherever you are heading. Do feel free to ask here if you have any questions though, so many lovely souls here!

Wishing you Bliss through Happiness...

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
2/1/18 9:16 AM as a reply to Norbert.
I had to ground everything in the scientifc present to get through this stuff.  If you just call it muscle tension and think about it as your body and mind trying to release all this tension from old stories you now know are pointless,  then theravada, hindu,  Kabala and disco all make sense and you can use any technique that relaxes you.  Every tradition, in my view,  is just a bunch of malarky wrapped around the central truth that we are all pointlessly stressed out about nonsense. 

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
2/1/18 4:37 PM as a reply to seth tapper.
Consider the very essence of suffering and the living organism which is 'designed' to survive and defend its survival (usually doing nothing more than deemed necessary). Look at how our common long histories of suffering is overcome: from learning math, to lifting a certain weight, to running a certain distance, an endless list - what is common to all of it? We suffer when we go a step or many steps higher (often accelerating growth), the organism registers the need to meet the demand through understanding suffering 'in various ways'.

From suffering, comes the desire to overcome, the investigation, the knowledge, then finally the release; rinse and repeat. The suffering cannot be avoided, IMO/IME. Best to start looking at it as a necessary evil, drop resistance and study it like a good student of life...

I really think how you arrive at the good place you are at today, Seth, is through this same unavoidable process...

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
2/1/18 5:09 PM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
I do not think it is about avoiding suffering.   The road is really really long and the shit that will arise is like Lord of the Rings level scary.  If you really want to get to the end and be free from suffering, you have to figure out how to stop seeing it as suffering.  

The entire model of seperate beings who suffer and have, create and percieve meaning is just not true.     So, whenever I suffer I am just lost in a delusion of some kind and am naming the pointless neural activity of my brain as "suffering".  

The experience of being a noble yogi sitting through intense suffering is a delusional one.  Right now in this very moment everything is exactly the same as it will ever be.  Nonsense arises in the mind, if you call it suffering - you suffer.  If you call it Vanilla Gelato, you experience Vanilla Gelato.  When you can always see it as Vanilla Gelato - you are a Buddha.  A fat one!

 Actually, in my experience, when you get enough distance from the operation of the mind that you can label the whole thing, the mind defaults to love because once you have let go of all the delusional meaning, thats whats left. 

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
2/1/18 9:12 PM as a reply to seth tapper.
I have tried doing this Seth. My experience with treating any suffering as nonsense, is that they are an attempted remedy, it succeeds when the attention/intellectual understanding (not awareness, not entire being, not entire mind) is brought to this fact AND my being has prior knowledge/acceptance/transcendence of the type/level of suffering being addressed (it actually has been relegated to pain already). When another level of suffering not transcended before comes to the scene, this line of remedying becomes the nonsense instead (to the being, whilst the conscious mind suffers more in resistance - asking why?). Although this remedy can be sustained with attention focused on the fact but awareness knows it as avoidance and there is no insight nor actual transcendence. My conscious mind can know for 100% as a fact that I am awareness, non-dual but that is not the guy to convince and I think soaking in this fact brings me away from doing the investigative work necessary to delete the ignorance in the other 90%.

Look at the sudden awakenings and I notice e.g. Buddha coming out of starvation, eating to regain clarity; Ramana doing his thing in a coffin; Eckart Tolle with his want-to-die experience, etc. Commonalities are somehow having a sense to maintain clarity to investigate the big one - suffering. (If you look carefully, they all have varying levels of enlightenment, saying even more about the relation of suffering is to true knowing.)

Then we look at all the geniuses, philosophers, religions, etc. Easily a million minds looking at this question but none coming up with the solution of "Just treat it as nonsense". Even the much-vaulted Direct Paths (Zen, Advaita, non-religious) with the simplest line of questioning: Who am I? all come with thousands of words of attempted instructions - still failing to instruct all individuals on how to do it, making the need for all kinds of guidance necessary to prevent the individual from going down the said-to-be aeons wasted if such questioning were to be done in an intellectual manner. 

If intellectual understanding can lead to liberation, I am thinking it would have already been done but that shouldn't stop anyone from trying though (although it comes back full circle to be suffering again). 

Treating Suffering as investigative food - has been fruitful for me. emoticon

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
2/1/18 9:38 PM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Whatever floats your boat! 

Generally, if you are mindful of the sixth sense doors then suffering can't arise and be seen as suffering.  It will always be feeling, seeing, hearing, touching, tasting and thinking.   So from a straight Theravada perspective, I am saying that when I feel like I am suffering it is always because my level of mindfulness has dropped.  I do think that a rational walking around model that sees these feeling as just mental nonsense is effective.  It is the plain truth and it stops me from entertaining the narratives that arise when i lose mindfulness.  

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
2/1/18 9:43 PM as a reply to seth tapper.
It doesn't float my boat at all, my being is simply suffering from a pain out of my threshold, I can tell it that it is a sensation, it is just pain but it is suffering - what can one do about that? How I wish nonsensing it does the job!

IME, nothing to do with mindfulness. I can shift it from the furthest corner of awareness, but there is no denying the suffering. Not an intellectual business for my unelightened self...

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
2/1/18 9:51 PM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
From which sense door do you experience "suffering"?

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
2/1/18 10:12 PM as a reply to seth tapper.
The mind. High enough pain sensed from physical door throws the mind off-balance into suffering mode. I have a threshold where it crosses over and I cannot stop that.

The thing is that this distance from pain or mind to suffering is not intellectual... As I would expect one who perceives non-duality to see that there is no one to be suffering - that I have yet to arrive at. Although I am very free from suffering, it will be delusional to say that I am free from it, knowing that when it comes, I will suffer.

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
2/1/18 10:15 PM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
But, when you gain enough pain threshold to cross suffering level x, you can see that the sensation you used to call suffering in suffering level x-1 is just regular physical pain? 

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
2/1/18 10:18 PM as a reply to seth tapper.
Yes! Laugh at it! But the next level laughs at me... 

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
2/2/18 12:32 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
Right now you are riding that boat up and down the waves.   One thing that helps me make the waves look smaller is to remember that I am just a mammal.   All the suffering is happening in a shaved chimps brain and only I am taking it seriously.  

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
2/2/18 3:40 AM as a reply to seth tapper.
Hmmm this looks like useful advice on living Life, but does it do anything for a practicing Yogi looking for non-dual truth? After dismissing all of that, all that is left is abiding in love/bliss/awareness till the next wave hits and repeating that endlessly. Not a bad way to live, but not the way out, no?

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
2/2/18 9:22 AM as a reply to Yilun Ong.
I am not sure if I am being helpful here, but for what it is worth - the less seriously I take myself, the less important I think my own suffering is, the easier it is for me to create distance and see the whole operation of the mind.  As I see that, the myth of a being seperate from my brain controlling my brain becomes easier and easier to let go of.  As I let it go, I take the happenings of the mind less seriously and the cycle spirals towards not giving a damn about any of it, because it is just a made up human melodrama.  I have nothing to lose but my anxiety.  The human brain, absent anxiety, is happy and satisfied.  

RE: Kundalini and sounds on vipassana retreat
Answer
2/2/18 10:01 PM as a reply to seth tapper.
I think it is useful to people in the real world, at certain levels of understanding - heck that would be most! But I am in a monastery, where mindfulness is a full-time affair (imagine living mindlessly here - insanity will ensue!). When 'I' pops up, it is investigated before the word 'seriously' ever has a chance to cross. I can imagine rubbishing the many forms of suffering created by the mind to be very useful for real world living, but as a contemplative monk, these stuff are those that light my eyes up. I find that if I spend too long abiding in awareness, I get comfortable <-> bored - Zen illness loop? So keeping investigations up keeps me out of that.

When suffering is detected, after seeing the illusion of 'I' in it, I use the self-inquiry - "Who am I?" to turn that energy into useful investigation. May be useful to some as a way to break the suffering spell and burn that in a constructive search? 

AND sorry Norbert for hijacking your thread! Please let us know how you are doing? emoticon