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Is womanizing breaking Sila a lot?

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Is womanizing breaking Sila a lot?
Answer
3/28/18 9:04 PM
I understand that without a doubt womanizing will hinder your practice but is it considered a large deviation from Sila?

thanks!

RE: Is womanizing breaking Sila a lot?
Answer
3/28/18 11:10 PM as a reply to Bailey ..
What's womanizing?

RE: Is womanizing breaking Sila a lot?
Answer
3/29/18 12:25 AM as a reply to Noah D.
Dating a lot of women

RE: Is womanizing breaking Sila a lot?
Answer
3/29/18 7:22 AM as a reply to Bailey ..
Cool.  It's an interesting term.  

wom·an·izeˈwo͝oməˌnīz/verbderogatorygerund or present participle: womanizing
  1. (of a man) engage in numerous casual sexual affairs with women."he drank, gambled, and womanized compulsively"
The first thing I notice is that it has a derogatory connotation.  Similarly, the example sentence uses the word "compulsively" to describe the activity & aligns it with drinking & gambling.  Also, the word "casual" is used in the definition.

Here are some thoughts:
-If Sati & Metta were brought to the activity of dating multiple partners, would it make etymological sense to use the term "womanize"?
-If full intention, organization & discipline were brought to the activity of dating multiple partners, would the word "compulsively" fit?
-Along those lines, would using "casual" be accurate in either case?

Sex can be an escape from practice or a part of practice.  If it is just about "getting off", then it is most likely numbing & tranquilizing, rather than opening up.  However, sexuality is a powerful doorway to the psychological shadow & the body's energy systems.  If awareness is brought to all phases of the act (including way before & long after), one can access places that normal "choiceless awareness" or vipassana meditation typically can't reveal because it won't stir them up.  

Relationships can be an escape from practice or a part of practice.  This holds true for monogamy & potentially even more so for non-monogamy.  When I say non-monogamy, I am referring to the range of romantic arrangements, from the least emotionally involved to the most.  I wouldn't necessarily categorize any part of this range as "casual" when engaged in with full ethical rigor (i.e. always being completely up front with your partner).  Engaging with multiple partners will stir up a lot of jealousy.  Jealousy that may or may not arise from a monogamous relationship or having no partner.  This is an opportunity to amplify the power of mindfulness deep into the shadow.

I think an interesting starting point for anyone is to examine their value judgements around certain types of sexual/romantic interactions over others, starting with the choice of the term "womanizing."

RE: Is womanizing breaking Sila a lot?
Answer
3/29/18 11:27 AM as a reply to Noah D.
Thank you

RE: Is womanizing breaking Sila a lot?
Answer
3/29/18 4:33 PM as a reply to Bailey ..
I am going to opine, but I have no real basis for it so please ignore this comment.  I apologize in advance.  

In my opinion: 

1.  No one is there to judge you.  You are not going to go to hell no matter what you do. Sila, etc is about effective training techniques and not about morality in the Christian sense.  Smoking cigarettes is bad for marathon runners and serial killing is bad for long term happiness. 

2.  Suffering is the product of thinking things are going poorly for you.  If you win the Superbowl - no suffering.  If you lose, lots of suffering. 
The more stories you think are true, the more opportunity you have to feel bad about how things are going.  Lots of relationships often implies lots of stories and lots of opportunities to get wrapped up and suffer. 

3.  "Womanizing" implies a certain dehumanization of the woman.  Are you using  the Dennis system?  A series of casual hook ups where everyone leaves happy and fulfilled is probably not a big issue, but how common is that? 

RE: Is womanizing breaking Sila a lot?
Answer
3/29/18 5:49 PM as a reply to seth tapper.
Are you using  the Dennis system?

LOL

RE: Is womanizing breaking Sila a lot?
Answer
3/30/18 10:43 AM as a reply to Bailey ..
I'm wondering if women in the dharma world have these same kinds of conversations  emoticon

RE: Is womanizing breaking Sila a lot?
Answer
3/30/18 7:49 PM as a reply to seth tapper.
seth tapper:
3.  "Womanizing" implies a certain dehumanization of the woman.
   Hana hou.

RE: Is womanizing breaking Sila a lot?
Answer
3/30/18 8:02 PM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
I'm wondering if women in the dharma world have these same kinds of conversations  emoticon


The real topic here is people & relationships, no?

RE: Is womanizing breaking Sila a lot?
Answer
3/30/18 8:36 PM as a reply to Bailey ..
I would assume so.

As someone from a non-western, sexually conservative culture who grew up in a modern western country, being sex-obsessed, as most people are, seems to deform people's morals a little. Just look no further than toxic shit like 'The Red Pill' & PUA culture, along with the constant references to it 24/7 in the form of memes or general real-world talk, and then take a look at the state of society.

It inevitably carries an accompaying attitude of wanting to constantly amass 'beautiful things' and the viewing of  people as objects that output pleasure for you, which is just immensely disgusting. Not very good for sticking to the eightfold path.

Maybe I'm just a hopeless idealist, but I heavily dislike the idea of non-monogamy(and serial monogamy.) and always will.

RE: Is womanizing breaking Sila a lot?
Answer
3/30/18 9:12 PM as a reply to D..
For a few years, I lived with one of my best friends who's very extroverted. He would have a new partner around quite often. He would seek them out, be really into them for a bit and then move on when he inevitably found a reason to. It was a jarring cycle and seemed to cause him and his partners a lot of suffering.

Morality in spiritual traditions, in my amateur point of view, is pointing to this jarring cycle more than anything else. Even if my friend was able to treat each of these partners with respect and without objectification, the mere fact that his desire was pulling him to always find someone better and the fallout that caused for the others is his karmic cycle. Polyamory or casual sex don't hold absolute morally objectifyable qualities. It's the effect of muddying up the emotional waters that causes suffering when not practiced skillfully. And to practice skillfully depends on your partners to have their shit together too, which to me seems next to impossible. Hence, there are the precepts, to keep the waters clear for optimal practice and insight progress. Not for devotional reasons, even though some find that useful. Perhaps this is obvious to some, but felt it could fit in here.

I have been single for many years and haven't had sexual intercourse for about half of those. Not that I am opposed to someone coming along naturally but I find that seeking it out muddies up the water. I feel more at peace and less potentially liable to hurt another being.       

RE: Is womanizing breaking Sila a lot?
Answer
3/30/18 9:20 PM as a reply to D..
D.:
Maybe I'm just a hopeless idealist, but I heavily dislike the idea of non-monogamy(and serial monogamy.) and always will.


aloha d,

   Isn't it interesting that marriage is still common, and that each marrying couple swears by whatever is holy to love each other, in sickness and health, for richer or for poorer, until death do them part? Even while knowing the chances are perhaps twenty to one they will be married to the same person at the end of their lives? Hopeless idealists all.

  One time I watched a tv show about zombies who are everywhere and if they bite you, you become a zombie. People formed "families" of people very varied in origin and culture in order to defend themselves from absorption into the mass of the "living dead." I thought the show an apt metaphor for contemporary life. Whatever gets you through the night, neh?

terry

RE: Is womanizing breaking Sila a lot?
Answer
3/31/18 9:03 AM as a reply to Bailey ..
Interesting topic and discussion here. A reflection I will add is this: as a psychotherapist what I often see in males who date multiple women is that it stems from low self-esteem and fear of abandonment. I'm not saying it's necessarily the case for all who are into multiple dating, serial monogamy or polyamory. But I do see quite a few cases where the underlying motivator is fear of abandonment and low self-esteem. Long-term commitment to one partner will expose very intimate material about yourself. Short term relationships can be an attempt to hide from this possibility. If one believes to be fundamentally inadequate and has strong fixations on this, one may be afraid to be exposed when staying with the same partner too long, and then abandoned for one's "inadequacies.".

But interestingly, the same issues of low self-esteem and fear of abandonment can lead some to the very opposite pattern: clinging strongly to long-term commitment. The mind is complex in its choice of defense mechanisms. So whether one chooses long term or short term flings, it's always good to contemplate what pushes one to such choice. 

As far as sila is concerned, my bias is in favour of long-term commitement if one is into spiritual practice. Short-term flings seem to create much turbulance in the mind that makes serious practice more difficult. 

RE: Is womanizing breaking Sila a lot?
Answer
3/31/18 11:34 AM as a reply to Ben V..
I appreciate that perspective, Ben V. Thanks.

RE: Is womanizing breaking Sila a lot?
Answer
3/31/18 3:22 PM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Thanks Chris emoticon

RE: Is womanizing breaking Sila a lot?
Answer
3/31/18 6:04 PM as a reply to Ben V..
I will stay far away from using hooks especially a promise of a long-term relationship in order to have sex. Morally, I will make it very clear what I am in it for. Even here, there are lesser, hidden moral issues as you/girls are deceiving themselves in looking for sex only. But if the coast is truly clear, what is wrong with that?!

Buddha:
Thus, Ananda, the purpose and benefit of virtuous behavior is freedom from remorse.