Discussion Forum Discussion Forum

Teachers

U.G. Krishnamurti !

Toggle
U.G. Krishnamurti !
Answer
10/10/08 2:02 AM
Author: thorjackson
Forum: Dharma Overground Discussion Forum

I came across this man yesterday on the net. I found him intriguing. He seems very anti what I'm trying to achieve but you cannot deny the mans sense of self certainty. I would be interested in other opinions.

RE: U.G. Krishnamurti !
Answer
10/11/08 5:50 AM as a reply to Wet Paint.
Author: xsurf

No comments on the man and I disagree some of the things he said, but I still find his insights and experience are pretty profound. (see http://www.well.com/user/jct/mystiq2.htm )

RE: U.G. Krishnamurti !
Answer
10/11/08 10:12 PM as a reply to Wet Paint.
Author: xsurf

Excerpt:

Is there in you an entity which you call the 'I' or the 'mind' or the 'self'? Is there a co- ordinator who is co-ordinating what you are looking at with what you are listening to, what you are smelling with what you are tasting, and so on? Or is there anything which links together the various sensations originating from a single sense -- the flow of impulses from the eyes, for example? Actually, there is always a gap between any two sensations. The co-ordinator bridges that gap: he establishes himself as an illusion of continuity.

In the natural state there is no entity who is co-ordinating the messages from the different senses. Each sense is functioning independently in its own way. When there is a demand from outside which makes it necessary to co-ordinate one or two or all of the senses and come up with a response, still there is no co-ordinator, but there is a temporary state of co- ordination. There is no continuity; when the demand has been met, again there is only the unco-ordinated, disconnected, disjointed functioning of the senses. This is always the case. Once the continuity is blown apart -- not that it was ever there; but the illusory continuity -- it's finished once and for all.

...the form of the body is not there...there is only an awareness of the points of contact

...You have a feeling that there is a 'cameraman' who is directing the eyes. But left to themselves -- when there is no 'cameraman' -- the eyes do not linger, but are moving all the time... There is no 'I' looking; mountains, flowers, trees, cows, all look at me. The consciousness is like a mirror, reflecting whatever is there outside. The depth, the distance, the color, everything is there, but there is nobody who is translating these things. Unless there is a demand for knowledge about what I am looking at, there is no separation, no distance from what is there

RE: U.G. Krishnamurti !
Answer
10/12/08 2:44 PM as a reply to Wet Paint.
I am no expert on this guy, but have run into some of his stuff and read a bit about him. It sounds like he was a bit of a handful, pretty cynical and yet very into these things in his way, and yet the most interesting thing is that I can't figure out how to do something practical with what he has said, and do not find the types of things I like to find: a workable path with supports so that people can understand whatever the teacher/advocator is going on about. Anyone else have any thoughts on the guy?

RE: U.G. Krishnamurti !
Answer
10/12/08 3:04 PM as a reply to Wet Paint.
U.G. Krishnamurti seems to me like the Frankenstein of the Theosophists (who already get two strikes right away anyway). They grabbed him as a kid, drilled a Luciferean psychic wonderland mythology into his head and had him doing jhana. Then he ended up really disappointed.

If that biography that's lying around the internet is at all accurate, towards the end of his life it sound like he had a lot of wisdom but was going through a non-stop kundalini crack-up. he also seemed to be a charismatic of sorts since he did seem to attract followers without really intending to do so.

RE: U.G. Krishnamurti !
Answer
10/12/08 10:00 PM as a reply to Wet Paint.
The obvious thing that's upsetting to know about Jiddu is the secret relationship he had with Rosalind - there is mention of it in the Wikipedia article on him. Perhaps people around him elevated him to such a high pedestal with quite unrealistic expectations ("World Teacher") that he simply had to "act out" the role to meet those expectations for whatever reasons. There are a few videos of him on Google Video, and watching him talk didn't make much sense, at least to me.

RE: U.G. Krishnamurti !
Answer
10/13/08 12:16 AM as a reply to Wet Paint.
jiddu and u.g. (uppaluri gopala) krishnamurti are two different guys..

RE: U.G. Krishnamurti !
Answer
10/13/08 12:48 AM as a reply to Wet Paint.
Just a fact check... there is a "U.G." and a "Jiddu" Krishnamurti.

U.G. is the "I have no message for mankind" guy

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uppaluri_Gopala_Krishnamurti

Jiddu is the Theosophist child leader:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiddu_Krishnamurti

I really liked J.K's "Think on these things". It was one of the first "enlightenment books" I read and his answer to "can a crude mind become sensitive?" probably changed my life as much as other teachings. ("...if I recognize that I am crude without wanting to change, without trying to become sensitive, if I begin to understand what crudeness is, observe it in my life from day to day -- the greedy way I eat, the roughness with which I treat people, the pride, the arrogance, the coarseness of my habits and thoughts -- then that very observation transforms what is." There are many reality-checks in J.K.'s teachings, but no real method.

U.G. appears to play the victim and his most consistent message seems to be that enlightenment is as much a liability as anything else. His story creeps me out, though, because I also hear the truth of it (for him). I find that it interesting that his pessimistic and somewhat desparate personality seems to have followed him post-enlightenment experience. I feel somewhat sorry for the guy, but I think he also cultivated that perception of himself. So, no real teaching, no real collaboration with others... What can you say?

RE: U.G. Krishnamurti !
Answer
10/13/08 12:57 AM as a reply to Wet Paint.
I'm aware that U.G. and J. were different characters. J. Krishnamurti also left the Theosophists. U.G. wasn't recruited for the degenerate "world teacher" role, but his family was drinking a lot of the Theosophist kool-aid, along with plain old superstition, and did put him through a rigorous spiritual regime from childhood... if I'm not mistaken one of the seminal events in his life was walking in on his teacher eating hot peppers, a big no-no.

RE: U.G. Krishnamurti !
Answer
10/13/08 6:26 AM as a reply to Wet Paint.
Author: marinr

I found his 'stuff' useful in clearing out some wild intellectual ideas that I created from my practice, and from reading books. But that's about it.

RE: U.G. Krishnamurti !
Answer
10/13/08 10:54 AM as a reply to Wet Paint.
Author: Dan_K

Here is my take on U.G. and how he relates the 3 charcteristics:

(these are quotes from various works about him)
"My first sentence is negated by the second sentence, and the next sentence negates the second. If you want to understand what I am saying you must listen to me in disconnected frames, the same way that I talk. That's the way I am listening to you. Each is a separate, independent frame. Then you don't see any contradictions."

Q:"Why do they say that the world is an illusion?"
A: "The center is created here; the space is created by thought. Measurement starts from a reference point. All measurements are illusory. "Maya" means "measure" and not "illusion". If the reference point goes by any chance, there is no way of knowing anything. Then there is no outside or inside."

"You are nothing but a memory, but you don't want to accept your automatic, mechanical nature."

----Here we have a pretty clear attack on the continuity of self. U.G., and the frame-by-frame vision of impermanence. U.G., in his own way, is communicating that he does not see a consistant core that needs to reinforced, and furthermore how the relative illusion of self is engineered.

RE: U.G. Krishnamurti !
Answer
10/13/08 10:55 AM as a reply to Wet Paint.
Author: Dan_K

“Why do you come day after day, wasting your money, knowing that you can't get a thing here? Why do you and others come here for years in spite of my rude, blunt cynicism, my insults, and open refusals to offer you any solutions for your problems?"

“The ultimate greed is God.”

"I want everyone who is interested in this kind of thing to understand: all kinds of transformation--physical or the so-called psychological--are out. When the desire to become something different is absent, then the body is free to function in its own way, that's all. You, the one who is creating the problem, cannot solve it. You continue to ask, "How, how, how, but that `how' is the problem, and the only problem."

----U.G.’s main point of focus is that people are foolish to idolize teachers and idealize qualities of enlightenment. The desire to become something reinforces the dualistic split by romanticizing certain qualities and demonizing others. In my opinion this corresponds to the gate of suffering, i.e. desire causes suffering.

“I myself resolved everything into just one burning question: `Is there really something called enlightenment?' Nothing else mattered. I did not attain moksha or enlightenment, which were my goals. The question just burned itself out. The very demand to know the answer to that question, and to be `free' from anything was entirely absent, that's all."

------U.G.’s “method” is not one that is particularly reproducible, as it took him many years of being homeless to attain. His view is seemingly nihilistic, as he says “I did not attain enlightenment” (i.e absolute truth). I believe the real message is that absolute truth is not added on to experience, as it ‘is’ that experience.

Also, his descriptions of the “natural state” in The Mystique of Enlightenment are worth reading

RE: U.G. Krishnamurti !
Answer
10/13/08 12:25 PM as a reply to Wet Paint.
I had heard of him but not read anything about him before. I was just reading the description he gives of his 'calamity' which is quite interesting (http://ug-k.blogspot.com/2007/04/calamity-search-must-come-to-end-before.html).

There is also an impossibly long audio file linked on that page which consists of several discussions he has with people. During one he briefly describes his method as trying to speak directly about his experience without any religious/spiritual overlay as a way to try to connect directly with the listener. Mostly what he seems to be attacking are the idealized views of enlightenment that tend to give people very false expectations – and just saying in all kinds of ways that that expectation is bogus, won't help you, and doesn't exist.

His own 'awakening' seems to have been triggered by becoming absorbed in a question 'How do I know that I am in that state?'. Similar to Stephen Jourdains experience of getting caught up in 'I think therefore I am' that triggered his experience. I think this is not that uncommon but perhaps hard to reproduce as a path to teach others and I don't know if he suggested this or not. I think Vince on another thread says something to the effect of how difficult it is for those who sort of spontaneously go through these experiences to be effective teachers for others.

RE: U.G. Krishnamurti !
Answer
10/16/08 1:36 AM as a reply to Wet Paint.
Author: marinr

Maybe he tried to 'trigger' that spontaneous thing in his students in real time. I wonder if he was successful. I remember a part of his talk when he says something like 'I'm all the time trying to knock off the reference point.' I can't seem to find the quote right now.

RE: U.G. Krishnamurti !
Answer
1/1/16 1:17 PM as a reply to Wet Paint.
Hey, I have U. G. Krishnamurti books, You can download them from http://drsecureweb.blogspot.in/2016/01/u-g-krishnamurti-books-download.html

RE: U.G. Krishnamurti !
Answer
1/8/16 8:34 PM as a reply to Wet Paint.
emoticon UG KRISHNAMURTI... 

I have listened to few of his YOUTUBE clips and read "Mystique of Enlightenment" book and few other articles. 

He has undergone a Paradigm Shift .. (if what he says how he operates is accurate) 

How he would fit in the "Traditional Theravada Buddhist Map (which stage)" or "Daniel's MCTB Map" don't know 







  

RE: U.G. Krishnamurti ! My teacher!
Answer
4/4/18 1:37 PM as a reply to Daniel M. Ingram.
Hello Daniel,

To reply to your question , I 'd like to say that he was who got me into Buddhism in the first place . I was searching for ' answers' and turned to things like pranic healing , Madame Blavatsky's works and then even went to a Kriya yoga retreat , which now in retrospect i realize is some sort of samadhi practice with Hatha yoga techniques. I came out of it and I was still miserable . Then I found this dude .... 

' The dude ' 


From what i could infer from his ' talks' was this ..

... that enlightenment is some sort of neurological change in a human being ,where there is some sort of permanent rearrangement of the senses , somehow operating independently . That ' craving ' isn't that paranoid idea of giving things up but more of an alteration of perception, where  the senses are endowed with a sense perceiving the impermanence of phenomena.That there was no 'seer 'there .  Just the seeing . The udana is awesome. So actually there is no person seeking , because what you call a person is a combination of sensory experiences  or what you call ' blips' in noting practice where you're in a noting frenzy  that come together to form the self. I realised it wasn't some sort of mystical experience nor some sort of merging with the cosmos stuff that the samadhi techniques made me feel like at that retreat. 

This being my benchmark for categorization led me to 'Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha ' which I must compliment you on . I mean its like the vimuttimagga except written by a cool , guitar playing , magick loving , modern ,and most imprtantly , relatable person.

Thank you for being you  and writing that awwesome book.
 
.. Getting to the point ... Your descriptions matched his ... expcept for a few things .... In that interview where you described how you function was very similar to what he said .. except for a few things ...

He speaks of changes in the BODY.


His physical organs changed for a while ... He can't reproduce ...his ears got longer .. his nose changed .. .On 'amavasya 'nights his ductless glands (" chakras" ) would swell up and he would go into a death like trance of some sort .. similar things were noticed in anandamayi ma . Her periods stopped when she was 17 .  In both cases , doctors could not discern what this stuff was .

.. So there is a " physical " change ... 

Descriptions like the ' horns of moses ' , ' buddha's ears ' , ' shiva's throat ' seem to throw light on these ... Its physical ... My theory is .. which is just an interpretation... Is that he's a 'Paccheka Buddha' . One does not use any one's 'dhamma' or 'way'

He rejected every teacher and every teaching , thus realizing the dhamma for himself .. And he cannot teach this .. so he doesn't .. he asks people not to come to him .. he's a private buddha... Even Anandamayi ma was not very capable of explaing what happened to her ... She would into reported states of rigor mortus ...similar to what U.G. would go through.. 


Guy's a boss though... But i guess personality and perferences remain after nibbana .. and he did nothing to get what he wanted..he gave up on the idea of getting 'it'..... so thats what he preaches .. 

Cheers!

RE: U.G. Krishnamurti !
Answer
4/4/18 4:58 PM as a reply to rajanga ishaan sadhanand.
always liked UG.

wish i could have meet him in person.