One-pointed versus more diffuse approaches to shamatha - Discussion
One-pointed versus more diffuse approaches to shamatha
J Groove, modified 15 Years ago at 6/24/09 3:46 AM
Created 15 Years ago at 6/24/09 3:46 AM
One-pointed versus more diffuse approaches to shamatha
Posts: 59 Join Date: 9/9/09 Recent Posts
Forum: Dharma Overground Discussion Forum
Greetings. I had a question about how “one-pointed” one’s attention should be when practicing anapanasati, i.e. mindfulness of breathing.
I started years ago with a shamatha practice in which one was supposed to maintain a light attention on the outbreath—say, 10-20 percent—with the remaining attention on all other sensations. The idea was to have kind of an open and receptive, not-too-tight-not-too-loose practice. The instruction was to pay particular attention to the pause at the end of the outbreath, before the in-breath began again, but to avoid any kind of “one-pointed” or “narrow” type of concentration on a single phenomenon. These terms were used in an almost pejorative way to describe a "too tight" form of meditation.
I’ve just started reading Dan’s book, as well as perusing this site and various related links. Last night I ran across Leigh Brasington's Jhana Page and found the description of anapanasati, if I understood it correctly, to be precisely what I was warned against as a beginning meditator. The idea seemed to be to focus 100 percent of one’s attention on the breath for up to 30 minutes--to be with every aspect of the breath in every instant in a way that requires extremely strong concentration.
Would anyone care to comment on whether my understanding of this type of anapanasati is correct (reference was in Leigh’s “Forest Refuge” document)? Suffice it to say I want to experiment and find out for myself, but I’d like to make sure I’ve understood this approach to anapanasati correctly.
Greetings. I had a question about how “one-pointed” one’s attention should be when practicing anapanasati, i.e. mindfulness of breathing.
I started years ago with a shamatha practice in which one was supposed to maintain a light attention on the outbreath—say, 10-20 percent—with the remaining attention on all other sensations. The idea was to have kind of an open and receptive, not-too-tight-not-too-loose practice. The instruction was to pay particular attention to the pause at the end of the outbreath, before the in-breath began again, but to avoid any kind of “one-pointed” or “narrow” type of concentration on a single phenomenon. These terms were used in an almost pejorative way to describe a "too tight" form of meditation.
I’ve just started reading Dan’s book, as well as perusing this site and various related links. Last night I ran across Leigh Brasington's Jhana Page and found the description of anapanasati, if I understood it correctly, to be precisely what I was warned against as a beginning meditator. The idea seemed to be to focus 100 percent of one’s attention on the breath for up to 30 minutes--to be with every aspect of the breath in every instant in a way that requires extremely strong concentration.
Would anyone care to comment on whether my understanding of this type of anapanasati is correct (reference was in Leigh’s “Forest Refuge” document)? Suffice it to say I want to experiment and find out for myself, but I’d like to make sure I’ve understood this approach to anapanasati correctly.
Hokai Sobol, modified 15 Years ago at 6/24/09 4:33 AM
Created 15 Years ago at 6/24/09 4:33 AM
RE: One-pointed versus more diffuse approaches to shamatha
Posts: 4 Join Date: 4/30/09 Recent Posts
Both approaches - narrow and broad - have been used in the Buddhist tradition. What you describe in the opening paragraph sounds like the technique introduced by Chogyam Trungpa and would therefore belong to the ordinary meditation practices in the comprehensive Mahamudra framework, where - in accordance with the view of Mahamudra - only a small amount of artificiality is to be used to cultivate attention. The idea is to develop an open mindfulness and a precise-yet-inclusive awareness, and basically that belongs to the four foundations of mindfulness.
Here's a link to a Kagyu presentation of four foundations of mindfulness for anyone interested http://bit.ly/xnTDr
On the other hand, theravada/vipassana meditation is not based on the view of the "ultimate natural state", so that techniques are presented, taught, and practiced in a notably different way. Even the notion of "extremely strong concentration" is understood and taught differently when it comes to the question of narrow vs. broad focus of attention. Just for example, Alan Wallace works with hardcore shamatha all the time, but most of the techniques he teaches are based on broad, natural, open states of awareness (an exemplary sequence for shamatha as taught by Wallace: body awareness > breath mindfulness > settling the mind in its natural state > awareness of awareness).
So, yes, there is a difference in views, methods, and techniques, and a spectrum from narrow to sweeping to fluid to open/panoramic awareness, so - if you build your deliberation on techniques - give it a try and see for yourself what works best for you.
Further comments would be useful by those who have substantial experience in the 100 percent focus on breath, and we have quite a few of such practitioners here.
Here's a link to a Kagyu presentation of four foundations of mindfulness for anyone interested http://bit.ly/xnTDr
On the other hand, theravada/vipassana meditation is not based on the view of the "ultimate natural state", so that techniques are presented, taught, and practiced in a notably different way. Even the notion of "extremely strong concentration" is understood and taught differently when it comes to the question of narrow vs. broad focus of attention. Just for example, Alan Wallace works with hardcore shamatha all the time, but most of the techniques he teaches are based on broad, natural, open states of awareness (an exemplary sequence for shamatha as taught by Wallace: body awareness > breath mindfulness > settling the mind in its natural state > awareness of awareness).
So, yes, there is a difference in views, methods, and techniques, and a spectrum from narrow to sweeping to fluid to open/panoramic awareness, so - if you build your deliberation on techniques - give it a try and see for yourself what works best for you.
Further comments would be useful by those who have substantial experience in the 100 percent focus on breath, and we have quite a few of such practitioners here.
Martin Potter, modified 15 Years ago at 6/24/09 4:54 AM
Created 15 Years ago at 6/24/09 4:54 AM
RE: One-pointed versus more diffuse approaches to shamatha
Posts: 86 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
Hello,
I actually gave up on concentration practise for about a year to just do dry insight because of these 'tight' instructions. I couldn't watch the breath so narrowly without grabbing it, and without a lot of tension around it and in the forehead. It's important to enjoy it and have fun, if you take it too seriously and tightly you may block piti from arising.
Recently I came back to concentration practise with a lot more success. Now when I look at the breath I look more at the SENSE of breathing in a very relaxed, gentle way, tuning into the pleasantness of sensations particularly in the chest area which arise in tandem with the in and out breath, paying attention to the overall sense of brightness and pleasantness without forcing or wanting it to get bigger or more pleasant, and without paying attention to the location of the pleasant sensations or the sense of breathing.
Try to approach it without aiming for a result, as though you'd just come back from a hard day's work and you find yourself relaxing in a chair with the sun on your face not thinking about what to do next. I find a great time to do it is in bed first thing as soon as I wake up, and before going to sleep, because then your mind is clear of the day and you can just relax into the moment.
Another option if you have trouble with the breath is to use a kasina, again make sure you don't make it tight by staring hard at the kasina, keep the background in awareness while leaving attention gently on the object. When piti comes up switch to that and sink in.
Enjoy
- Martin
I actually gave up on concentration practise for about a year to just do dry insight because of these 'tight' instructions. I couldn't watch the breath so narrowly without grabbing it, and without a lot of tension around it and in the forehead. It's important to enjoy it and have fun, if you take it too seriously and tightly you may block piti from arising.
Recently I came back to concentration practise with a lot more success. Now when I look at the breath I look more at the SENSE of breathing in a very relaxed, gentle way, tuning into the pleasantness of sensations particularly in the chest area which arise in tandem with the in and out breath, paying attention to the overall sense of brightness and pleasantness without forcing or wanting it to get bigger or more pleasant, and without paying attention to the location of the pleasant sensations or the sense of breathing.
Try to approach it without aiming for a result, as though you'd just come back from a hard day's work and you find yourself relaxing in a chair with the sun on your face not thinking about what to do next. I find a great time to do it is in bed first thing as soon as I wake up, and before going to sleep, because then your mind is clear of the day and you can just relax into the moment.
Another option if you have trouble with the breath is to use a kasina, again make sure you don't make it tight by staring hard at the kasina, keep the background in awareness while leaving attention gently on the object. When piti comes up switch to that and sink in.
Enjoy
- Martin
J Groove, modified 15 Years ago at 6/24/09 5:34 AM
Created 15 Years ago at 6/24/09 5:34 AM
RE: One-pointed versus more diffuse approaches to shamatha
Posts: 59 Join Date: 9/9/09 Recent Posts
Thanks, Hokai and Martin456.
My general sense is that my practice is stuck, in part because of an overly diffuse or loose approach to shamatha--what Shinzen Young might be getting at in referring to "the tranquility trap"--and also because of an utter absence of any meaningful vipashyana/Insight practice/inquiry. My concentration is stable enough, but certainly not extraordinarily strong. I also wonder whether I've ever really used the mind to energetically penetrate phenomena as Dan describes. Time to experiment and explore!
My general sense is that my practice is stuck, in part because of an overly diffuse or loose approach to shamatha--what Shinzen Young might be getting at in referring to "the tranquility trap"--and also because of an utter absence of any meaningful vipashyana/Insight practice/inquiry. My concentration is stable enough, but certainly not extraordinarily strong. I also wonder whether I've ever really used the mind to energetically penetrate phenomena as Dan describes. Time to experiment and explore!
Hokai Sobol, modified 15 Years ago at 6/24/09 5:42 AM
Created 15 Years ago at 6/24/09 5:42 AM
RE: One-pointed versus more diffuse approaches to shamatha
Posts: 4 Join Date: 4/30/09 Recent Posts
Stability and vividness/clarity must be cultivated side by side, being mutually supportive, and the emphasis on any one will produce an imbalance which - forged into a habit - may indeed become an obstacle, or at least a demotivating force. A good approach should be evident in manifest progress in real time - days in intensive retreat, weeks in regular home practice. Keep us informed!
J Groove, modified 15 Years ago at 6/24/09 7:16 AM
Created 15 Years ago at 6/24/09 7:16 AM
RE: One-pointed versus more diffuse approaches to shamatha
Posts: 59 Join Date: 9/9/09 Recent PostsJ Groove, modified 15 Years ago at 6/25/09 12:47 AM
Created 15 Years ago at 6/25/09 12:47 AM
RE: One-pointed versus more diffuse approaches to shamatha
Posts: 59 Join Date: 9/9/09 Recent Posts
On that point, this quote from Dan seemed relevant as well...
"...there may be stages of practice where there can be so much tranquility that the mind can get quite dull and hard to focus. So, just as tranquility is good for
concentration and acceptance, too much is similar to not having enough
energy. Remember, balance and strengthen, strengthen and balance."
The 'tranquility trap' does indeed seem to have sprung!
"...there may be stages of practice where there can be so much tranquility that the mind can get quite dull and hard to focus. So, just as tranquility is good for
concentration and acceptance, too much is similar to not having enough
energy. Remember, balance and strengthen, strengthen and balance."
The 'tranquility trap' does indeed seem to have sprung!