Meditation and PTSD

Aaron Wilson, modified 14 Years ago at 7/5/09 1:18 PM
Created 14 Years ago at 7/5/09 1:18 PM

Meditation and PTSD

Posts: 2 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
Forum: Dharma Overground Discussion Forum

I have a friend who is relatively new to Buddhism but quite enthusiastic. She's read a whole pile of books by Thich Nhat Hanh, Pema Chodron, and Jack Kornfield, along with a number of ancient Pali texts such as the Dhammapada. Despite all this, she's seemed somewhat reluctant to actually sit and meditate (usually telling me she doesn't have time, etc.). A few weeks ago I brought her to a small group which did a guided samatha practice, hoping that she'd feel both instructed by the excellent teacher there and inspired to practice more.

After the meeting, she told me that she had an agonizing time sitting, because the practice revived all sorts of awful memories. She told me that she had recently been diagnosed with post-traumatic stress disorder (new and recurring memories of events when she was very young) and that she wouldn't be meditating any more and she's happy with the books alone.

I haven't argued with her but I feel like meditation would be beneficial in the long run, even if it's painful at present. Am I wrong? I have no experience with PTSD and I don't want to feel like I'm diminishing its terror, but I don't know how much Pema Chodron's advice can help on its own.

Does anyone have experience meditating with PTSD or a similar mental disorder?
Joe Dharma, modified 14 Years ago at 7/5/09 3:20 PM
Created 14 Years ago at 7/5/09 3:20 PM

RE: Meditation and PTSD

Posts: 7 Join Date: 9/1/09 Recent Posts
I suffer the after-effects of chronic stress, which is more or less PTSD without the wartime horror-stories to justify it.

Anapana has been a big help with that. Not a substitute for therapy, by any stretch, but a helpful adjunct. For me, the first few weeks of meditation brought on a "brain dump" in which all sorts of baggage was constantly arising. It was practically a full review of everything that ever happened in my life, in random order, with special emphasis on the bad stuff. Your friend's story really resonates with me because it sounds like roughly the same thing.

There's no point pushing her, but it might comfort her to know that this "brain dump" stage passes. In retrospect it seems like clearing out the "weeds" so serious work can begin. And the effect spills over into daily life, too: my "stuff" stopped arising and nagging me at awkward times.
Nigel Sidley Thompson, modified 14 Years ago at 7/5/09 3:28 PM
Created 14 Years ago at 7/5/09 3:28 PM

RE: Meditation and PTSD

Posts: 14 Join Date: 8/26/09 Recent Posts
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102373662

This is an interview from the program Fresh Air hosted by Terri Gross. She interviews Dr. Michael Grodin, one of the directors of the Boston Center for Refugee Health and Human Rights.

Here’s part of the blurb:

Dr. Michael Grodin discusses his experiences treating Tibetan monks who suffer from post traumatic stress disorder. Many of the monks were imprisoned or tortured because of their resistance to the Chinese presence in Tibet, and now some of them experience "flashbacks" while meditating.


http://www.soundstrue.com/podcast/?p=966#bottom

This second is an interview by Tami Simon, founder of Sounds True. Here’s a blurb of the episode:
Tami Simon speaks with Tara Brach, an author, clinical pychologist, and founder and senior teacher of the Insight Meditation Community of Washington (District of Columbia). She’s the author of the Sounds True audio learning program Radical Self-Acceptance: A Buddhist Guide to Freeing Yourself from Shame and Meditations for Emotional Healing. Tami and Tara discuss radical acceptance in the face of difficult emotions.

At one point in the interview, Brach discusses how some people need other preparation before they’re ready for the intensive investigation of vipassana, for example. I think she recommended, among other things, work with the brahmaviharas. Anyway, her specific points are in the interview.

I found it soothing and healing to listen to Tara Brach. Meditation can occur off the cushion as well, sometimes just by relaxing the mind as we hear the healing words of a wise person, or open up to the influence of a healing space. Your friend might be benefited by just hearing some healing perspectives, before she really gets into more formal practice.

Oh, and like nosuchperson, I have personally found anapanasati extremely helpful on this point!!!
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Crinia Signifera, modified 14 Years ago at 7/5/09 5:34 PM
Created 14 Years ago at 7/5/09 5:34 PM

RE: Meditation and PTSD

Posts: 0 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
theodolite,

If jumping straight into meditation triggers strong emotions, your friend may prefer EMDR http://www.emdr.com/ as a first step. This is less confronting especially during the initial stages when a therapist is present and monitors the patients stress levels.
EMDR will provide you friend with coping skills she can then use once she is ready to start meditating.

Crinia
Aaron Wilson, modified 14 Years ago at 7/6/09 6:31 PM
Created 14 Years ago at 7/6/09 6:31 PM

RE: Meditation and PTSD

Posts: 2 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
Thanks for the excellent replies and the extremely relevant links. I'll ask her if she's heard of EMDR as well, although she has some eye phobias and I'm not sure she'd be comfortable with objects near it.
Nigel Sidley Thompson, modified 14 Years ago at 7/6/09 8:21 PM
Created 14 Years ago at 7/6/09 8:21 PM

RE: Meditation and PTSD

Posts: 14 Join Date: 8/26/09 Recent Posts
another thing:

Remember that, as they say, there are four postures for meditation: sitting, walking, reclining, standing. She might be a good candidate for walking. I got the feeling that part of the problem was in her feeling like a 'sitting duck' so to speak. In one spot. Unable to escape.

What if she were outside, in a soothing natural setting, practicing slow walking. Or even mindfully jogging. The practices can meet her where she is now, and then eventually lead her to the cushion if that's going to happen.

So, she might loook at activities that she's already doing, and think which of these might conduce to one-pointed concentration practice or noting practice.

Even sitting outdoors is an option, which could possibly address some of the issues that could come up in an enclosed room. If she plays any musical instruments, then some very small adjustments could turn that into a good practice; for either shamatha or vipassana. The same goes for any brush- or pen-based visual arts.

The bottom-line here is that she can be creative in designing the context for the practice, particularly if she consults with an experienced (and open-minded) friend.

Here's some inspiration:

http://www.care2.com/greenliving/outside-insight-walking-meditation.html

(The article is strictly lightweight. But could spark some ideas.)
David U, modified 14 Years ago at 7/6/09 8:37 PM
Created 14 Years ago at 7/6/09 8:37 PM

RE: Meditation and PTSD

Posts: 0 Join Date: 8/22/09 Recent Posts
Hi Theodolite

I thought I might chime in here with a couple of possible avenues. There are 2 well-established therapeutic methodologies I know of that directly employ mindfulness meditation as a core feature of the therapeutic process, supported by a practitioner.

Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction is used quite a bit now in therapeutic settings. It was devised by Jon Kabat-Zin, who is a dedicated Buddhist practitioner and sought to bring the benefits of meditation to the Western medical and therapeutic scene. This technique is very established now. His book, Full Catastrophe Living is worth checking out:

http://www.umassmed.edu/Content.aspx?id=43102

Acceptance and Commitment Therapy is a psychotherapeutic methodology that is fundamentally Buddhism for Western Psychology, lock stock and barrell. Don't know a lot about it, but a perusal of the site shows how it utilizes all the basics of the four noble truths and onward to the eightfold path. In particular, it deals with how to be with painful experience in the early stages. Well worthwhile.
http://www.contextualpsychology.org/act

Your friend might want to look into meeting with a practitioner who uses one of these. Hope this helps.
- David
Richelle J, modified 14 Years ago at 12/23/09 10:39 AM
Created 14 Years ago at 12/23/09 10:39 AM

RE: Meditation and PTSD

Posts: 10 Join Date: 12/23/09 Recent Posts
As a therapist, I second the recommendations of Acceptance and Commitment Therapy and Minfulness-Based Stress Reduction. I am trained in EMDR and have found it very helpful for clients and for myself. As far as your friend's eye phobia, know two things: 1) the technique can be used with tactile stimulation rather than eye movements (basically tapping on the person's knees), and this is just as effective; 2) with eye movements, the therapist's hand isn't really near the client's eyes...maybe an arm's length distance. A good EMDR clinician will work with the client to figure out a comfortable distance or an alternate method if eye movements are uncomfortable (i.e, tactile or auditory).

I hope your friend gets what she needs!

Richelle
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Dark Night Yogi, modified 14 Years ago at 12/25/09 3:52 AM
Created 14 Years ago at 12/25/09 3:52 AM

RE: Meditation and PTSD

Posts: 138 Join Date: 8/25/09 Recent Posts
hi i found the link of the outside meditation useful. i suffered from PTSD but was never diagnosed clinically. I had pretty rough times especially in the first dark night due to the energy blockages that trauma caused. Meditation became painful and uncomfortable however when i got thru it i cleared that blockage out and feel better.

This wasn't something that happened in early practice though. Isn't it for many, PTSD or no PTSD, meditation during the start is often difficult and that getting weird flashbacks is also normal? Maybe it could creep someone out more if they knew they had PTSD, but that it may not necessarily cause this. If the flashbacks come easily, then the ptsd must be bad? Maybe though the thought of 'having PTSD' may also reinforce their fear of having trauma flashbacks.

as for me, brahma vihara's have helped, especially during those times when i am going through painful and disturbing times on the cushion, switching to focusing on compassion gets me through.
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Daniel M Ingram, modified 14 Years ago at 1/3/10 1:26 AM
Created 14 Years ago at 1/3/10 1:26 AM

RE: Meditation and PTSD

Posts: 3268 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
I generally don't think that trying to convince people to meditate is a good idea most of the time.

Here is a person who knows what it is, may have some idea of what it can lead to, has been exposed to it and yet doesn't want to sit. I wouldn't push it. I understand why you might think it is a good idea, but if they are not into it, they are not into it for whatever reason(s).

Back in my more evangelical days I would do things like that and I can't remember a single time when it lead to anything but resentment and conflict.

Just my two cents.

Daniel
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Dark Night Yogi, modified 14 Years ago at 1/9/10 9:55 AM
Created 14 Years ago at 1/9/10 9:55 AM

RE: Meditation and PTSD

Posts: 138 Join Date: 8/25/09 Recent Posts
i feel the same way as well now.

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