5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about Rousseau Matt 1/8/23 4:54 PM
RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about Edward 12/26/22 8:29 AM
RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about Brian 12/26/22 8:32 AM
RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about Jonas E 12/26/22 10:28 AM
RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about Rousseau Matt 1/8/23 4:54 PM
RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about Jonas E 12/28/22 10:31 AM
RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about Rousseau Matt 1/8/23 4:54 PM
RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about Jonas E 12/29/22 1:07 PM
RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about Rousseau Matt 1/8/23 4:54 PM
RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about Jonas E 12/31/22 8:25 AM
RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about Michal 12/30/22 10:43 AM
RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about Rousseau Matt 1/8/23 4:54 PM
RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about Jonas E 1/2/23 10:29 AM
RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about Rousseau Matt 1/8/23 4:54 PM
RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about Jonas E 1/1/23 11:26 AM
RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about Zarbook ! 1/1/23 1:01 PM
RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about Rousseau Matt 1/8/23 4:54 PM
RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about Jonas E 1/2/23 10:34 AM
RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about George S 1/5/23 8:41 AM
RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about Zarbook ! 1/5/23 1:13 PM
RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about Rousseau Matt 1/8/23 4:54 PM
RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about Zarbook ! 1/8/23 9:56 PM
Rousseau Matt, modified 1 Year ago at 1/8/23 4:54 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 12/25/22 4:53 PM

5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

Posts: 136 Join Date: 5/1/22 Recent Posts
This substance is getting more and more popular in the scientific community  and also the meditation,spiritual and non duality communities.   It has an extremely  high rate of ego dissolution  at small doses . Many ceremonies  are all over YouTube.  These people experiences seem to correlate  with some buddhist or at least  yogic states.  Although  5 meo is notoriously frightening. Meditation states such as jhana never seem to have a fright factor.  I was think of doing a retreat.   My question to others .  Have you tried it?  Did it help or hinder  your Meditation  practice? Both jhana a.d Insight.    Could it open a Door so the substance isn't nessisary anymore.?      Also , who thinks it could be bad?   Did you find it a hindrance?   Buddhism is not a shamanic  religion so should it be avoided  . Love to here some thoughts 
Edward, modified 1 Year ago at 12/26/22 8:29 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 12/26/22 8:29 AM

RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

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https://www.dharmaoverground.org/ca/discussion/-/message_boards/message/24311017
Brian, modified 1 Year ago at 12/26/22 8:32 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 12/26/22 8:32 AM

RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

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First, of the two main DMTs people take, 5-MeO is the more dangerous one. It has to be measured carefully. People should be careful.

Second, let's just try to think in terms of fundamentals. At the end of the day, the brain is a big ball of reconfigurable thingies, and people are unhappy because the big ball is configured to be unhappy, and the job of the meditator is to gradually reconfigure the ball to be happy, and then the person will be happy. Reconfiguring all those thingies is a very big job, because there are a lot of them. The drug can cause a person to have a temporary experience, but it cannot do something like accomplish what years of meditation can accomplish. If the experience inspires someone to think that there's something worth working for, good. But you go up in the hang glider, see the neat stuff from a new vantage point, but then come back down, and then you have to walk toward the goal.

I think it's basically like people have said many times: hang up the phone once you get the message. I got the message. Sometimes I think about taking psychedelics because I like having weird experiences, but because previous experiences inspired me to meditate, I gradually became certain that I was already on the path to the real answer. The psychedelics served their purpose. Now I'm on my way to the only worthy goal, my true home, within the mind, certainly not within some chemical. Use the raft if you need it, but then put the raft down once you don't need it anymore.
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Jonas E, modified 1 Year ago at 12/26/22 10:28 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 12/26/22 10:22 AM

RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

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Jhanas can be frightening, I got really scared once early in my formal meditation practice. Just with beginners luck I went straight into what I think was a formless jhana, but I got scared and went down to "baseline" again. It never happened to me again, even though I been meditating successfuly afterwards. But successful in other means, not in high jhanas. I read of other people who also got scared in their first encounter with the formless jhanas (specifically the seventh jhana, I think), but when they tried again it was cool. I think the build up of jhanas from first stage makes it easier to enter deeper jhanas. Same with other territory, just walk at your own pace. If your are used to run after somebody else, or to go by car or other vehicle. Notice how nice it is to leave the vehicle and walk.

I also have several experiences with 5-MeO-DMT. I don't want to do it again! It is like lottery. Using any substance is a bit like lottery. It's good reasons to walk the path of the buddha or same path by other names. It is just that in the beginning it can be difficult to know what is going to work and no doubt psychedelics works, but it's like riding a horse or a bull, you might fall off and hurt. And so you might be further back on the path, or you are successful and come to insight. My experiences with 5-MeO-DMT was both difficult and successful. But it opened up too deep too fast, and has this caused me more trouble then otherwise, if I would not have used it? I will never know, but I think it's verry probable. Certainly I had to face great difficulties also after the use of 5-MeO-DMT. If you choose to investigate it further, I think you only will improve your skills in science.

Here you can read more: (but I think it's better for you to give it up, instead find conented insight right where you are.) https://www.dharmaoverground.org/ca/discussion/-/message_boards/message/23639058
Rousseau Matt, modified 1 Year ago at 1/8/23 4:54 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 12/26/22 12:32 PM

RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

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Thanks for that great info.  Do you think 5 meo takes one up to the 7th jhana if there is a break  through.  I have heard other experienced mediators who have experienced the substance describe it as very 7th jhana
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Jonas E, modified 1 Year ago at 12/28/22 10:31 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 12/28/22 10:30 AM

RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

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Im not verry good at mapping. But I think it was one of the formless jhanas. I mean there is no sign telling you "hey you are now at the 7th jhana" emoticon Maybe this mapping tradition will create such technic in the future, haha.. When I reflected upon my experience, I thought it was the 8th jhana. But that could just be because I don't have such long experience of being in the jhana and also to enter it from lower jhanas and also to go back from higher jhanas. So, please don't rely on me.

I also had softer experience with 5-MeO-DMT that I don't know which jhana it was or what I would map it like. Just a lot of energy in my body that forces me to move and go with the energy.

Why do you ask me? Are you interested to try anyways? Please understand, that this is a verry powerful drug and that it really can make your life a hell! Leave it! If you don't want to listen to me, at least do psilocybine mushrooms instead. I would not recommend that either, but I think it is wiser than 5-MeO-DMT. And begin with a low dose, and let it be a long time inbetween the trips, like 1 year. Science is not fully at home yet with psychedelics, what it can do with us.

You say:
"Do you think 5 meo takes one up to the 7th jhana if there is a break  through."
I don't know what you mean by this, I'm not verry familiar with this concept, my impression so far is that "break through", is a vague concept like god. So, at the peak of the concept it could just mean enlightenment. So, why do you ask that? Why would you enter the 7th jhana when your enlightened?
Rousseau Matt, modified 1 Year ago at 1/8/23 4:54 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 12/28/22 12:13 PM

RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

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Thanks. I'll pass on the 5 meo dmt. Maybe others as well
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Jonas E, modified 1 Year ago at 12/29/22 1:07 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 12/29/22 1:07 PM

RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

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What? I don't understand what you are saying
Rousseau Matt, modified 1 Year ago at 1/8/23 4:54 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 12/30/22 4:41 AM

RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

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You talked me out of using it. I heard  it's a fast way to experience non duality. Buy if it's traumatic, I will pass on it. I will keep meditating naturally.  Maybe try a low dose of shrooms before meditating once and a while but mostly naturally.  I just feel like I'm not making progress fast on onconcent or insight
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Jonas E, modified 1 Year ago at 12/31/22 8:25 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 12/30/22 9:52 AM

RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

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Oh ok, good choice! you have sense for reason. I also had good ability to reason. But opening the mind will definitely be confusing at some point, hence easy to take new unknown roads, which you also have to do to make progress. But karma decides what road, how we understand new roads, how far to go and so on. Like, I can't say 5-MeO-DMT is wrong or right. That's just how it is in this world. But 5-MeO-DMT is ofcourse for people willing to take great risks and who has some difficulties with morality (weird?), that's what I learnt from the consequences of 5-MeO-DMT. I had to learn the tough way.

If you going to use shrooms or other psychedelic, please understand that you will enter a difficult field inside, called "the dark night of the soul". Which will come also if you make progress in meditation. Actually I think we can't avoid it throughout life, it's just like all our dark stuff lies dorment, and makes us suffer, and spiritual practice brings that up to surface. And once we discover it, we just have to go through it, or you most likely will be depressed the rest of your life. If you have opened it and try to close it. I suspect there are people who understand this territory better then me, since I have ADHD, limited ability to concentrate. But most people who go through it gets a good and shared understanding of it. Did you read MCTB?

So, if you get into it through meditation and good understanding of theory I think you have a good chance to get through skillfully.

Thank you, you help rekindle hope and compassion. I met so much people going hard on crushing my ego, and doing extreem things, so I lost hope completely many times. I think there has to be a fine balance between compassion and wisdom.
Michal, modified 1 Year ago at 12/30/22 10:43 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 12/30/22 10:01 AM

RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

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Psychadelics are jhanas on steroids. Stronger psychadelics are jhanas on steroids^2 or ^2^2^2.<br /><br />
​​​​​​​They are amazing for contemplation. Doubt they could give you a cessation, but who knows. Maybe lower doses so they are only a jhanic enhancer (1/3 of a 25 mg HHC or 12 mg THC weed edible + jhana is great).<br /><br />
​​​​​​​Try 5 - 10 hours kasina with a small dose of armodafinil + psychadelic microdosing. That is awesome for getting to far out territory fast - can be used for kickstarting a retreat.
Rousseau Matt, modified 1 Year ago at 1/8/23 4:54 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 12/30/22 10:16 PM

RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

Posts: 136 Join Date: 5/1/22 Recent Posts
Michal
Psychadelics are jhanas on steroids. Stronger psychadelics are jhanas on steroids^2 or ^2^2^2.<br /><br />
​​​​​​​They are amazing for contemplation. Doubt they could give you a cessation, but who knows. Maybe lower doses so they are only a jhanic enhancer (1/3 of a 25 mg HHC or 12 mg THC weed edible + jhana is great).<br /><br />
​​​​​​​Try 5 - 10 hours kasina with a small dose of armodafinil + psychadelic microdosing. That is awesome for getting to far out territory fast - can be used for kickstarting a retreat.


I have been on Modafinil as an add on for depression.  Paxil and  Modafinil actually.   . I might try microdosing to replace the Paxil. I heard it works better 
​​​​​​​
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Jonas E, modified 1 Year ago at 1/2/23 10:29 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 12/31/22 8:51 AM

RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

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But, it depends on what dose you take ofcourse. I never took small doses of 5-MeO-DMT. I had a lot of experience of big doses of other psychedelics, so I thought I just go directley on the higher doses of 5-MeO-DMT, 15-20mg rectal and 7-10mg vaped.

​​​​​​​It is not that the actual experience of it put me of, but what difficulties I met after and long after.
Rousseau Matt, modified 1 Year ago at 1/8/23 4:54 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/1/23 9:56 AM

RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

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I see . The Intergration process  can be difficult.  Did your meditations improve . Mindfulness  etc.
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Jonas E, modified 1 Year ago at 1/1/23 11:26 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/1/23 11:26 AM

RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

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https://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=114323#addendum

There you can read about how it was during, after and long after.

Difficult question if my mindfulness improved. Sometimes it deffinitely been a lot worse like you can read at erowid, if you can understand what I was going through. Sometimes it been good before and after. Maybe it improved afterwards in a way. My life has been different. I can't give you a straight answear.
Zarbook !, modified 1 Year ago at 1/1/23 1:01 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/1/23 12:24 PM

RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

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I read "The electric kool-aid acid test" in high school and was scared away from DMT because it made one of the pranksters snap. After the A&P, I felt ready and tried Ayahuasca, "changa", and 5-meo, both synthetic and buffo. 

None of them have felt blissful for me. Aya has brought up psychological insights and neat visions and auditory fireworks. Felt purgative though, and nice shifts happened in the days and weeks after.

Changa (not sure exactly what that is) was visual and kaleidoscopic. I found it disorienting and itchy. This was immediately before 5meo in ceremony, so I'm not sure what the afterglow was. 

 I'm not quite sure what to make of 5. My body twitched and flopped around a lot, like an old timey exorcism.  My hands went into odd positions- not sure if mudras or just contorting!

it kind of felt like dissolving into static, like being tv snow. There was little to no thinking - just buzzing and vibrating. A lot less dual then usual. There was no colour, just greyscale. I found it emotionally flat. It was super intense but somehow dull and boring at the same time. Kind of reminded me of strong salvia.

 I didn't get much insight other than "the mind can do that" and "drugs ain't gonna get me all the way". Not totally sure what changes it brought about. All the shaking and writhing felt healing and purgative, like I flossed my nervous system. So much to jiggle out! But insight or concentration wise.... I dunno. Not much to take away for me. It was super fast. 

it's interesting how much smaller drug induced highs feel now after the A&P. There's a part of awareness they don't quite touch. 

I've never felt anything like that before, but I've tried most of the famous drugs so that probably prepped me for the sudden flip to such an intense experience. probably not something I'd recommend to someone who hadn't explored strange and unusual mindstates through meditation, psychedelics, therapy or whatever. 

I'm pretty sure I've only managed to get soft first and second jhannas on my own stream. Definitely not formless. I'd also be curious to hear how more experiences meditators would map that. 
Rousseau Matt, modified 1 Year ago at 1/8/23 4:54 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/1/23 1:49 PM

RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

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Thanks for sharing Zarbook.  Was the 5 frightening as hell?
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Jonas E, modified 1 Year ago at 1/2/23 10:34 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/2/23 10:34 AM

RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

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And also one small dose actually of 5 meo, I don't know how much, it was in a way more difficult, I don't know what to say about that one or if I got something out of it. Fear and fast heart beats. Not such good set and setting that one time.

I think psychedelics can be a good idea to use if you don't know another way to get out of your suffering. But the you have to get through it!
George S, modified 1 Year ago at 1/5/23 8:41 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/5/23 8:41 AM

RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

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I use psychedelics with the intention to experience as much dukkha as possible! (not inflicting unnecessary pain on myself, just releasing what’s already buried deep in the body) Because normal sense of self doesn't work - memory, time, coherent thoughts/personal narrative - there's no option to avoid unpleasant sensations. Usually it turns out that it is the avoidance which is unpleasant, not the sensations themselves. Sukha is correspondingly intense as well, but dosage is important - getting a sense for how much dukkha I can comfortably handle in a single session. It’s like a muscle which gets stronger with practice. It's also important for me that I can access the new territory afterwards without the psychedelic, so it's like an exploratory expedition.
Zarbook !, modified 1 Year ago at 1/5/23 1:13 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/5/23 1:13 PM

RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

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Matt Jon Rousseau:
Thanks for sharing Zarbook.  Was the 5 frightening as hell?


It was one of the most intense states I've felt, and came on very fast, but I wouldn't describe it as frightening.

Most of my body, visual field, thoughts felt like static, but there was still an observer experiencing it. I was more scared going in - my friend who went before me puked and stripped lol

The second time, with the real buffo, it wasn't as big a dose I think. That was unpleasant but also not scary. I threw up that time. A lot of memories and discomfort. Kind of icky, also not so scary.

Set, setting, and subject are important. Pre-meditating Zarbook was very ambitious and exploratory in his drug use. I was ready to get blasted open and trusted my facilitators. Sober A&P was the "best" thing I've ever felt, and I think I was looking for that with 5 and a bit disappointed it couldn't get me there. I'm not eager to do it again, at least for the time being.
Rousseau Matt, modified 1 Year ago at 1/8/23 4:54 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/6/23 1:10 AM

RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

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That's interesting  . How did you reach the AP sober ?  Mahasi style?
Zarbook !, modified 1 Year ago at 1/8/23 9:56 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/8/23 9:56 PM

RE: 5 meo dmt this needs to be talked about

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Nope, "spontaneously" while talking with a friend. I'd done a Goenka retreat and kept up a lazy practice, but didn't take it seriously and wasn't looking for attainments. 

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