Hi folks,

I'd like to ask people of this forum if removal of self-based suffering is synonumous with happiness? What do you think? What is your experience?

I've been focused on emptiness and compassion in my practice for a number of years now, enough to have established effortless knowing awareness as my prevalent state of mind. However, even if my mind is quite spacious and clear most of the time, I do not feel happy. Also I realise happiness/cheerfulness is something I miss from my time of non-buddhist of training.

Feel free to share. 

Hi folks,

I'd like to ask people of this forum if removal of self-based suffering is synonumous with happiness? What do you think? What is your experience?

I've been focused on emptiness and compassion in my practice for a number of years now, enough to have established effortless knowing awareness as my prevalent state of mind. However, even if my mind is quite spacious and clear most of the time, I do not feel happy. Also I realise happiness/cheerfulness is something I miss from my time of non-buddhist of training.

Feel free to share. 

2nd Rank — The Real (emptiness) within the Apparent (form)

At dawn the old women finds the ancient mirror
Immediate and intimate
But nothing particular
There is no need to search for your own face.

This corresponds to the 9th ox-herding picture — seeing form, completely freshly and vividly, with intimacy and immediacy, as our minds come back into focus after experiencing “no-thing.” It is a rush of consciousness and seeing the world completely anew. We see all forms through the eyes of emptiness and exacting clarity. Form is seen in equality with no differentiation.

The shadow of the 1st and 2nd ranks is the very green, immature, enlightened person with the stink of Zen. Zen sickness, sometimes this is called. Because our insights are all so new and intoxicating, people with new insight may come off as arrogant, judgmental and self-righteous. We need to mature our understanding at this point. As Dogen points out: “You are playing in the entranceway, but you are still short of the vital path of emancipation.”
In the first two ranks, the practitioner is still quite focused on their individualized self and still compartmentalizing in duality; sometimes being in form, sometimes being in emptiness.

Vesali Sutta: At Vesali
translated from the Pali by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu


Then the Blessed One went to the assembly hall and sat down on a seat made ready. As he was sitting there, he addressed the monks: "Monks, this concentration through mindfulness of in-&-out breathing, when developed & pursued, is both peaceful & exquisite, a refreshing & pleasant abiding that immediately disperses & allays any evil, unskillful qualities that have arisen. Just as when, in the last month of the hot season, a great rain-cloud out of season immediately disperses & allays the dust & dirt that have been stirred up, in the same way this concentration through mindfulness of in-&-out breathing, when developed & pursued, is both peaceful & exquisite, a refreshing & pleasant abiding that immediately disperses & allays any evil, unskillful qualities that have arisen.

"And how is concentration through mindfulness of in-&-out breathing developed & pursued so as to be both peaceful & exquisite, a refreshing & pleasant abiding that immediately disperses & allays any evil, unskillful qualities that have arisen?

"There is the case where a monk, having gone to the wilderness, to the shade of a tree, or to an empty building, sits down folding his legs crosswise, holding his body erect, and setting mindfulness to the fore. Always mindful, he breathes in; mindful he breathes out.

"[1] Breathing in long, he discerns, 'I am breathing in long'; or breathing out long, he discerns, 'I am breathing out long.' [2] Or breathing in short, he discerns, 'I am breathing in short'; or breathing out short, he discerns, 'I am breathing out short.' [3] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the entire body.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the entire body.' [4] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming bodily fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming bodily fabrication.'

"[5] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to rapture.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to rapture.' [6] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to pleasure.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to pleasure.' [7] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to mental fabrication [feeling & perception].' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to mental fabrication.' [8] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in calming mental fabrication.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out calming mental fabrication.'

"[9] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in sensitive to the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out sensitive to the mind.' [10] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in gladdening the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out gladdening the mind.' [11] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in steadying the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out steadying the mind. [12] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in releasing the mind.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out releasing the mind.'

"[13] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on inconstancy.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on inconstancy.' [14] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on dispassion [literally, fading].' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on dispassion.' [15] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on cessation.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on cessation.' [16] He trains himself, 'I will breathe in focusing on relinquishment.' He trains himself, 'I will breathe out focusing on relinquishment.'

"This is how concentration through mindfulness of in-&-out breathing is developed & pursued so as to be both peaceful & exquisite, a refreshing & pleasant abiding that immediately disperses & allays any evil, unskillful qualities that have arisen."

.,
I still not understand how something that simple that just focusing on your breath can bring these good sensations and feelings.

Selves & Not-self
The Buddhist Teaching on Anatta
by
Thanissaro Bhikkhu
...
After his awakening, the Buddha could have talked about anything at all, but he chose to talk on just these two topics. To understand his teachings, we have to understand not only what he said about suffering and its end, but also why these topics were of utmost importance.

The purpose of his teachings was to help people find true happiness.

...

In the same way, the Buddha would answer only the questions that provided an answer to our primal question and helped put an end to suffering and stress. Questions that would get in the way, he would put aside, because the problem of stress and suffering is urgent.

Usually when we hear the teaching on not-self, we think that it's an answer to questions like these: "Do I have a self? What am I? Do I exist? Do I not exist?" However, the Buddha listed all of these as unskillful questions [§10]. Once, when he was asked point-blank, "Is there a self? Is there no self?" he refused to answer [see Talk 2]. He said that these questions would get in the way of finding true happiness. So obviously the teaching on not-self was not meant to answer these questions. To understand it, we have to find out which questions it was meant to answer.

As the Buddha said, he taught two categorical teachings: two teachings that were true across the board and without exceptions. These two teachings form the framework for everything else he taught. One was the difference between skillful and unskillful action: actions that lead to long-term happiness, and those that lead to long-term suffering [§§4-5]. The other was the list of the four noble truths: the truth of suffering, the cause of suffering, the end of suffering, and the path to the end of suffering [§6].

...

When we learn to do this in the proper way, we'll arrive at true happiness, free from any suffering and stress. At that point, questions of self and not-self will be put aside. When you arrive at true happiness, you no longer need strategies to protect it — the way you do for forms of happiness that are subject to change — because it's unconditioned. It doesn't depend on anything at all. The strategy of self is no longer needed, and neither is the strategy of not-self. As Ajaan Suwat, one of my teachers, once said, when you find true happiness, you don't ask who's experiencing it, for that's not an issue. The experience itself is sufficient.

...
the Buddha refused to get involved in the issue of whether there is or is not a self. This will involve discussing in more detail two of the points I made last night.

The first point is that the Buddha's teaching was strategic, aimed at leading to a specific goal: total freedom in the minds of his listeners. The second point is that, as part of this larger strategy, the Buddha had strategic reasons for putting questions of the existence or non-existence of the self aside.
...
No matter who you are, if you try to answer the question, "Do I exist?" or "Do I not exist?" or "What am I?" you get entangled in views like, "I have a self," or "I have no self," which the Buddha calls "a thicket of views, a wilderness of views [§§10, 19-20]." The image is clear: If you're entangled in a thicket or a wilderness, you've wandered far from the path and will have trouble getting back on course.
...
You also place limitations on yourself if you hold to the idea that you have no self.
...
So these are different ways in which defining what you are can give rise to limitations. When you learn how to drop these unskillful ways of creating a self — or even the idea that you have no self — you can free yourself from these limitations.
...
Tonight I'd like to start looking at how we create a sense of self that can lead to long-term welfare and happiness, focusing first on the question of why we would need to do this.
...
If we create a fixed view of who or what we are, we limit ourselves. We keep on creating suffering and stress. But if we see that we can create many senses of self and can learn to use them as tools, we'll be in charge of our happiness. We can use these tools to bring suffering and stress to an end.
...
This is where the teaching on not-self comes in. It, too, is an activity — a strategic activity — that has to be mastered as a skill: knowing how to put down a particular sense of self when it's no longer skillful, and ultimately, when your selves have taken you as far as they can, knowing how to let go of them all.

When you understand both self and not-self as activities in this way, it's easy to see how the Buddha's teachings on this topic are answers to his basic question for fostering discernment: "What, when I do it, will lead to long-term welfare and happiness?" When, through practice, you've learned how to use perceptions of self and not-self in a skillful way, you'll know for yourself that these skills are a very effective answer to that question.

Nibbana as Living Experience / The Buddha and The Arahant
Two Studies from the Pali Canon
by
Lily de Silva
...
Nibbana is described as the highest happiness, the supreme state of bliss.[7] Those who have attained Nibbana live in utter bliss, free from hatred and mental illness amongst those who are hateful and mentally ill.[8] Sukha in Paali denotes both happiness and pleasure. In English happiness denotes more a sense of mental ease while pleasure denotes physical well being. The Paali word sukha extends to both these aspects and it is certain (as will be shown below) that mental and physical bliss is experienced by one who has attained Nibbana.
...
The experience of non-sensuous physical bliss for limited periods is possible even before the attainment of Nibbana through the practice of jhaana or meditative absorption.
...
Regarding the experience of the arahant, the Suttanipaata states that by the destruction of all feelings/sensations a monk lives desireless and at peace.[11] Once Saariputta was asked what happiness there can be when there is no feeling/sensation.[12] He explained that the absence of feeling/sensation itself is happiness.[13] It is relevant to note here that the Buddha says that he does not speak of happiness only with reference to pleasant feelings/sensations. Wherever there is happiness or pleasure, that he recognizes as happiness or pleasure.[14]

A Stream-enterer (Sotāpanna) is free from:

1. Identity view
2. Attachment to rites and rituals
3. Doubt about the teachings


A Once-returner (Sakadāgāmin) has greatly attenuated:

4. Sensual desire
5. Ill will


A Non-returner (Anāgāmi) is free from:

4. Sensual desire
5. Ill will


An Arahant is free from all of the five lower fetters and the five higher fetters, which are:

6. Attachment to the four meditative absorptions, which have form (rupa jhana)
7. Attachment to the four formless absorptions (ārupa jhana)
8. Conceit
9. Restlessness
10. Ignorance

Hi folks,

I'd like to ask people of this forum if removal of self-based suffering is synonumous with happiness? What do you think? What is your experience?

I've been focused on emptiness and compassion in my practice for a number of years now, enough to have established effortless knowing awareness as my prevalent state of mind. However, even if my mind is quite spacious and clear most of the time, I do not feel happy. Also I realise happiness/cheerfulness is something I miss from my time of non-buddhist of training.

Feel free to share. 

Hi Kim,

The question of the removal of suffering (or emptiness) vs happiness is a good one.  I first became interested in the Buddhist path after a very profound glimpse of enlightenment experience.  I was suffering from a lot of anxiety and self-doubt at the time, and this glimpse experince was 180 degrees in the opposite direction.  I felt totally free, perfectly at peace, and filled with the boundless evergy of the living present moment, manifesting as a crackling and uniquly alive and upbeat frame of mind - in short this experience was filled with all the aspects of true happiness.

After this experience I began meditating, seeking to get back to this state of ultimate happiness.  When I encountered MCTB and read about 4th path and its supposed finality, I assumed to achieve 4th path would be to get back to the state of perfect enlightenment I had witnessed.  The reality however was that 4th path was in many ways just the entrance to a much greater path of meditation. 

4th path for me represented the dawning of the experience of empintess, a pround experience.  However, in no way did it compare to the state I had witnessed and long sought.  A Shinzen Young quote well captured the realization that although at 4th path we "glimpse the ox, but our ultimate goal is to ride it."  And it was a long path beyond the 4th path realization before I felt like I had returned to the the state I sought.

TLDR - The path is a long one.  Final enlightenment, emotional perfection, true happiness, ect... is much debated, but the reality is that what we seek really is out there, it's just not easy to achieve.

Hi folks,

I'd like to ask people of this forum if removal of self-based suffering is synonumous with happiness? What do you think? What is your experience?

I've been focused on emptiness and compassion in my practice for a number of years now, enough to have established effortless knowing awareness as my prevalent state of mind. However, even if my mind is quite spacious and clear most of the time, I do not feel happy. Also I realise happiness/cheerfulness is something I miss from my time of non-buddhist of training.

Feel free to share. 

This is fascinating - Kim's original question is like looking in a mirror for those who answer.

This is fascinating - Kim's original question is like looking in a mirror for those who answer.

Agree... but can't help but wonder what that mirror offers your perspective? ;)

This bit hit me as hard as a lightning today.

...Eradication of suffering doesn't lead to the positive qualities of mind, you have to develop them and it's important....

- Daniel Brown, Sacred Sundays interview, 47:40