Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance

Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance Mikha Rlin 4/14/11 6:14 PM
RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance . . 4/14/11 9:50 PM
RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance Mikha Rlin 4/16/11 10:24 AM
RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance Bruno Loff 4/16/11 10:36 AM
RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance Shashank Dixit 4/16/11 11:19 AM
RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance Dauphin Supple Chirp 4/18/11 4:40 AM
RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem 4/18/11 12:37 PM
RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance Dauphin Supple Chirp 4/19/11 9:12 AM
RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem 4/19/11 10:14 AM
RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance Dauphin Supple Chirp 4/20/11 9:21 AM
RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance Nikolai . 4/20/11 9:25 AM
RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance Dauphin Supple Chirp 4/20/11 10:06 AM
RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance Bruno Loff 4/15/11 7:27 AM
RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem 4/15/11 7:44 AM
RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance Mikha Rlin 4/15/11 8:35 AM
RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem 4/15/11 9:09 AM
RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance Dauphin Supple Chirp 4/15/11 11:23 AM
Mikha Rlin, modified 13 Years ago at 4/14/11 6:14 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 4/14/11 5:04 PM

Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance

Posts: 15 Join Date: 12/29/10 Recent Posts
Hello folks.

Living in an unstable part of the world with a criminal environment, at times a war zone, I've been having trouble for some time now to get rid of a certain notion that I caught reading the Actual Freedom website.

Hoping not to trouble you much with my thoughts, maybe you would be able to shine on my thought process / sincerity here.

This is a paragraph from the website:

All sentient beings are born pre-primed with certain distinguishing instinctual passions, the main ones being fear, aggression, nurture and desire. They are blind Nature’s rather clumsy software package designed to give one a start in life and to ensure the survival of the species. While absolutely essential in the days of roaming man-eating animals, rampant disease, high infant mortality, these very same instinctual passions now threaten the survival of the species.


I've been having trouble for sometime to get this out of my system. I don't see how instinctual passions were ever essential in an adult human being regardless of prosperity. Cognitive/aware brain is superior. That's what I see, anyway, but I'm not 100% sure on that.

Why is this group of people (backed by Richard) said otherwise? Why do I care about what they said?

Because they are more experienced then I am, and not just said it without giving any thought to it, and I take this as some kind of warning, not to allow myself to let investigate deeper. My belief is that letting this body be without passions and not being able to get back into that animal/passionate state of the brain, is dependent on a certain prerequisite, that I might not have. This is making me stuck, being afraid to let PCE or any further deeper investigation.
, modified 13 Years ago at 4/14/11 9:50 PM
Created 13 Years ago at 4/14/11 9:50 PM

RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance

Posts: 385 Join Date: 8/11/10 Recent Posts
Hi Mikha -

I've been having trouble for sometime to get this out of my system. I don't see how instinctual passions were ever essential in an adult human being regardless of prosperity. Cognitive/aware brain is superior. That's what I see, anyway, but I'm not 100% sure on that.


I am not sure "instinctual passions" necessarily result in "prosperity" - but it appears that the ability to hunt/pilfer/hoard/dominate without distraction has its own swift intelligence, competitive edge. An old, stable apex species (one that hasn't much changed in a long time), like an alligator, has a job to do - hunt, hoard, survive, breed.

We are no so different despite the modern era. The classic human example of instinctual passions: animals have population cycles and resources have resource cycles (lotka-volterra). Lacking war and disease, to reduce population in humans, females are reduced (because one male X 100 women = possible 100 babies::one woman x 100 men = possible 1 baby). Populations that equally took the hit for overpopulation and starvation are less likely to promulgate the species than those that practiced infanticide, geronticide, violent repression of the child bearers. Kindler gentler traits (like men not insemeniating women when populations are booming) just may not have been as competitive as, say, the Genghis Khan method.

Because they are more experienced then I am, and not just said it without giving any thought to it, and I take this as some kind of warning, not to allow myself to let investigate deeper.
I am of the opposite approach here: investigate ad nauseum, find the ludicrous far-points so that the thought naturally releases. This counteracts a tendency for numbness (which you may not have) and can exhaust a feeling or locate a strong source of identity that benefits from exploring.
Mikha Rlin, modified 13 Years ago at 4/16/11 10:24 AM
Created 13 Years ago at 4/16/11 10:24 AM

RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance

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katy s:
investigate ad nauseum, find the ludicrous far-points so that the thought naturally releases. This counteracts a tendency for numbness (which you may not have) and can exhaust a feeling or locate a strong source of identity that benefits from exploring.

This is a good pointer for me, ludicrous far-points, huh? Very nice.


Bruno Loff:
If you are afraid to investigate, then investigate fear (and if you are bored, investigate boredom, etc).

Do you think an investigation of fear itself is possible, or is it always an investigation of a belief that creates an effect of fear? (Example to a belief - I need to belong to this group) To me at this point the second option seems correct. But if it's really possible to investigate the raw fear, then boy, do I still have a long way to go.


Dauphin Supple Chirp:
The players are genes, not individuals.
The payout is reproductive success of the genes, not individuals.
The body is a tool created and used by the genes to implement their strategies.

Nicely put.
Is this something that is easily understood in stream entry?

Dauphin Supple Chirp:
but once you get to fruition of stream entry, I don't think it's possible to still doubt it's well worth it.
This is quite fascinating. I wish I could understand the goal of Theravada path.

Dauphin Supple Chirp:
a good teacher
A good actual teacher or a good book?
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Bruno Loff, modified 13 Years ago at 4/16/11 10:36 AM
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RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance

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Mikha Rlin:

Do you think an investigation of fear itself is possible, or is it always an investigation of a belief that creates an effect of fear? (Example to a belief - I need to belong to this group) To me at this point the second option seems correct. But if it's really possible to investigate the raw fear, then boy, do I still have a long way to go.


Both can happen, the only way I can do it, really, is to investigate whatever is at the surface. Usually this means the fear first (it usually manifests for me without an obvious cause), and if it then becomes visible, the underlying belief. "Raw fear" is usually fear of death; the belief underlying it, I guess, is that "I as an entity" actually exist.
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Shashank Dixit, modified 13 Years ago at 4/16/11 11:19 AM
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RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance

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Do you think an investigation of fear itself is possible, or is it always an investigation of a belief that creates an effect of fear? (Example to a belief - I need to belong to this group) To me at this point the second option seems correct. But if it's really possible to investigate the raw fear, then boy, do I still have a long way to go.


My investigation can reveal several forms of fear. 1) fear of not investigating the actualism way or having not done the investigation at all 2).finding a belief that is fearful to let go of ( like group acceptance or morality ) 3). raw instinctual fear - like as in suddenly a vehicle zooming by and I'm caught unaware. I'm finding that just by simply knowing that in whatever fearful situation I am or will be - I can do all the calculations by seeing the parameters of the situation at that time and act accordingly and so I don't need to be afraid now.
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Dauphin Supple Chirp, modified 13 Years ago at 4/18/11 4:40 AM
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RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance

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Mikha Rlin:

Nicely put.
Is this something that is easily understood in stream entry?


Honestly I don't know if stream entry will make this part any easier to understand, because for me personally it happened the other way round: After attending a couple of game theory lectures in school, I understood the above statements very well, on an intellectual level, before I ever started meditating. This understanding made me really sad. If anything, stream entry has helped me "move beyond the sadness" once and for all. I still believe (obviously) that individuals are mere tools/slaves to their genes, from a biological point of view, but my point of view is no longer purely biological. Even when I started meditating, I already understood that the mere understanding of game theory / biology won't make me happy or even ameliorate my suffering. That's why I started to meditate. After a few months of good (as in consistent and with the right guidance, not necessarily always pleasant) meditation, I am happy to report meditation does indeed take away a lot of suffering and moreover it actually causes a surprising amount of happiness.

From talking to other people, I understand that not everyone puts an experience like stream entry into the same words, so in all honesty I should probably just say the following: I believe stream entry will not necessarily answer the questions you (or any of us) ask before stream entry, and it will not necessarily help you understand exactly what you want to understand, but it will make you realize that the answers to your questions are not as important as the insight you have actually attained through stream entry. It's sort of like this: Before stream entry, you may want to know exactly what you are because you believe this knowledge could make life easier and better for yourself and the people you have contact with. Stream entry won't show you exactly what you are (so it won't actually answer your question), but it will show you some things you are not, and (possibly to your surprise) you will find that this insight makes life a lot easier and better; so you have not really found an answer to the question you were asking, but you have solved the problem you were trying to solve by asking the question.

Mikha Rlin:

This is quite fascinating. I wish I could understand the goal of Theravada path.


I'm not sure how you meant this. If in fact you know about the goal of the Theravāda path, but simply meant to say that you disagree with that goal or path, then you should just ignore the rest of this post.

The goal is very simply the end of all suffering. The theory behind it is that all suffering is caused by greed, hatred, and delusion, and that you can get rid of all greed, hatred, and delusion through basic morality, regular concentration practice, and honest investigation of what your experience is in this life. If you meditate with this goal and use the right techniques, you will go through several stages of insight, but the four major landmarks are:

1. Stream entry, which gets rid of a lot of delusion, specifically shows you that you don't exist in the way you thought you did.
2. Once-returner, which significantly weakens your greed and hatred and, according to the people I have talked to, can make you feel very much like you are completely done, fully enlightened.
3. None-returner (anāgāmi), which totally gets rid of all your greed and hatred.
4. Arahat, which totally gets rid of all your delusion, including what they call "conceit."

This "getting rid" happens literally from one second to the next, once you get to that point in your cultivation (meditation), but it usually takes a few weeks for you to fully understand what has happened. For example, it is not uncommon to experience several weeks without the greed and hatred you were used to, so you begin to think you might have attained to one of the higher stages of enlightenment, and there is really no way of ever confirming that. However, what usually happens after a few weeks is you take another honest look and realize there are still some greed and hatred left, so you conclude you can't be an anāgāmi yet. There is apparently also the contrasting view that anyone who can achieve nirodha samāpatti (the sustained cessation of all feeling and perception) has to be at least an anāgāmi, so some people consider themselves that or an arahat, even though by the other definition, they would be considered a once-returner at best. The people I spend time with are among the most conservative ones, so if they can still detect any level of greed or hatred within themselves, they will insist they have not yet reached anāgāmi.

Stream entry, on the other hand, is a different story. We have several people here who have reached it and have compared our understanding to pretty much anything we can find about it, and we are pretty sure if anyone would be considered a stream enterer, we would. Again, it usually took a couple of weeks to fully understand and accept that a major shift in how we relate to life had occurred and that this shift was indeed stream entry, but once this has become clear, doubt regarding stream entry never returns again. Even a few years later, you can remember, "Yes, when I started meditating, I had this intuitive notion of the inner observer as a separate entity from the sense impressions it was observing. Then I had the insight that this inner observer consists entirely of the same kind of fundamental phenomena that all the other things I can observe consist of. Ever since then, I have known this, and it has colored my experience, and never since then have I seen things the way I used to."

Mikha Rlin:


A good actual teacher or a good book?


I was really referring to a good actual teacher, because that is definitely the fastest way to make progress. I know two people in this area (Tampa, FL), either one of whom would be an excellent choice to provide instructions and answer pretty much any questions you may have about Theravāda, although neither has reached what they would consider Anāgāmi, which by their definition would involve the total eradication of all greed and hatred, but they are actually both getting close; and getting people to stream entry is something they do a lot. They don't charge any money, and one of them gives lessons through Skype. If you would like to PM me your e-mail address, I will be happy to ask him to contact you.
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 13 Years ago at 4/18/11 12:37 PM
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RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance

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Dauphin Supple Chirp:
I was really referring to a good actual teacher, because that is definitely the fastest way to make progress. I know two people in this area (Tampa, FL), either one of whom would be an excellent choice to provide instructions and answer pretty much any questions you may have about Theravāda, although neither has reached what they would consider Anāgāmi, which by their definition would involve the total eradication of all greed and hatred, but they are actually both getting close; and getting people to stream entry is something they do a lot. They don't charge any money, and one of them gives lessons through Skype. If you would like to PM me your e-mail address, I will be happy to ask him to contact you.

oh neat. could you give more info about them? like what techniques they teach/use, what their current practice is, do they have a blog, etc? i'm curious cause i only really know about DhO and KFD as places/methods that successfully get people stream entry
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Dauphin Supple Chirp, modified 13 Years ago at 4/19/11 9:12 AM
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RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance

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Their backgrounds are different, but their methods are not all that different from what I have seen on DhO and KFD.

One of them is a European who spent 3 years as a monk in Sri Lanka, where he was taught in the Ñāṇārāma/Ñāṇananda system, which itself is an offshoot of the Mahāsi system. The way he teaches right now is about 6 months of pure concentration practice with development of the first 4 jhānas, then noting according to the 6 sense bases. He has very strong faith in the Pāli canon and is best with people who were born Buddhist and have strong faith in the word of the Buddha themselves.

The other is an American who broke away from Southern Baptist indoctrination to atheism, then tried to prove Buddhism wrong, but found that the Buddha was a genius. He was first taught by a monk and someone else (I can't recall the details now), then by Kenneth, and now he is in the process of translating the Mahāsi technique and related Buddhist doctrine into Christian terms in order to get Christians to meditate and see the truth for themselves. He likes to experiment and employs lots of different techniques, depending on what works for the individual meditator. His strategy is to get people to access concentration as quickly as possible through focus on the breath, metta, body scanning, or noting, or whichever combination works best for the individual. Then he guides them toward different noting categories (4 foundations of mindfulness, 6 sense bases) and encourages them to experiment, keeping in mind that the important thing is to be aware of anything that happens, "because if you are not aware of it, you will become it." After stream entry, he recommends to "zoom out" and focus on feeling (positive/negative/neutral) and the processes that lead up to it.

So you see it's not that they have some revolutionary new technique other than what Kenneth and Daniel used to get to stream entry. I just mentioned them because they are willing to teach people one-on-one, which is arguably even more important than the right technique.
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 13 Years ago at 4/19/11 10:14 AM
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RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance

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Dauphin Supple Chirp:
The other is an American who broke away from Southern Baptist indoctrination to atheism, then tried to prove Buddhism wrong, but found that the Buddha was a genius. He was first taught by a monk and someone else (I can't recall the details now), then by Kenneth, and now he is in the process of translating the Mahāsi technique and related Buddhist doctrine into Christian terms in order to get Christians to meditate and see the truth for themselves.

hehe that is an awesome bio! i'd be really interested in seeing the Christian-oriented techniques.

Dauphin Supple Chirp:
So you see it's not that they have some revolutionary new technique other than what Kenneth and Daniel used to get to stream entry.

aye.. i guess any successful technique will basically involve stabilizing the mind (concentration) and then looking at stuff (insight).
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Dauphin Supple Chirp, modified 13 Years ago at 4/20/11 9:21 AM
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RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance

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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:

hehe that is an awesome bio! i'd be really interested in seeing the Christian-oriented techniques.


He's planning to open up a website with videos and possibly even going to accept donations from Christians, since according to him, that's what Christians are used to. From what I understand, it's going to go online at samvega.org in a few weeks. (Don't pay too much attention to what's on there right now; he is just using it as a testing ground.)
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Nikolai , modified 13 Years ago at 4/20/11 9:25 AM
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RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance

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Is it Brian Ananda? I tried joining that site a while back but was never accepted. Quite an interesting direction to take it. Goodluck to them!

emoticon

Nick
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Dauphin Supple Chirp, modified 13 Years ago at 4/20/11 10:06 AM
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RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance

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Nikolai Blue Mountains Bush Yowie*:
Is it Brian Ananda? I tried joining that site a while back but was never accepted. Quite an interesting direction to take it. Goodluck to them!

emoticon

Nick


Indeed it is Brian. The reason the site never worked all that well is that he has been using it mainly for testing purposes. He is just now getting around to actually taking it "online" for real.
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Bruno Loff, modified 13 Years ago at 4/15/11 7:27 AM
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RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance

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Mikha Rlin:
Hello folks.

Living in an unstable part of the world with a criminal environment, at times a war zone, I've been having trouble for some time now to get rid of a certain notion that I caught reading the Actual Freedom website.

Hoping not to trouble you much with my thoughts, maybe you would be able to shine on my thought process / sincerity here.

This is a paragraph from the website:

All sentient beings are born pre-primed with certain distinguishing instinctual passions, the main ones being fear, aggression, nurture and desire. They are blind Nature’s rather clumsy software package designed to give one a start in life and to ensure the survival of the species. While absolutely essential in the days of roaming man-eating animals, rampant disease, high infant mortality, these very same instinctual passions now threaten the survival of the species.


I've been having trouble for sometime to get this out of my system. I don't see how instinctual passions were ever essential in an adult human being regardless of prosperity. Cognitive/aware brain is superior. That's what I see, anyway, but I'm not 100% sure on that.


While the cognitive brain might be superior, it wasn't always here, and evolution is a very gradual metamorphisis.


Why is this group of people (backed by Richard) said otherwise? Why do I care about what they said?

Because they are more experienced then I am, and not just said it without giving any thought to it, and I take this as some kind of warning, not to allow myself to let investigate deeper. My belief is that letting this body be without passions and not being able to get back into that animal/passionate state of the brain, is dependent on a certain prerequisite, that I might not have. This is making me stuck, being afraid to let PCE or any further deeper investigation.


Beware of self-fulfiling prophecies. If believing you might not have what it takes to do the thing causes you not to take the required steps, and establish the appropriate conditions, for the thing to happen, then presto, voilá, it'll never happen.

There is absolutely nothing that shouldn't be investigated, but investigation is usually done on the thing that most prominently presents itself. If you are afraid to investigate, then investigate fear (and if you are bored, investigate boredom, etc).

A pointer that was useful to me was: If the only thing that passions have to say for themselves, the only thing they have to present in their own defense, is fear... well, then, good riddance!
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 13 Years ago at 4/15/11 7:44 AM
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RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance

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Mikha Rlin:
My belief is that letting this body be without passions and not being able to get back into that animal/passionate state of the brain, is dependent on a certain prerequisite, that I might not have.

What is the prerequisite? Or do you mean a general "I don't think I can do this" without a specific reason?
Mikha Rlin, modified 13 Years ago at 4/15/11 8:35 AM
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RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance

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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:
Mikha Rlin:
My belief is that letting this body be without passions and not being able to get back into that animal/passionate state of the brain, is dependent on a certain prerequisite, that I might not have.

What is the prerequisite? Or do you mean a general "I don't think I can do this" without a specific reason?


The prerequisite is to be safe, secure and being able to provide my basic needs without fighting with other humans for them.
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Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem, modified 13 Years ago at 4/15/11 9:09 AM
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RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance

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Mikha Rlin:
Beoman Claudiu Dragon Emu Fire Golem:
Mikha Rlin:
My belief is that letting this body be without passions and not being able to get back into that animal/passionate state of the brain, is dependent on a certain prerequisite, that I might not have.

What is the prerequisite? Or do you mean a general "I don't think I can do this" without a specific reason?


The prerequisite is to be safe, secure and being able to provide my basic needs without fighting with other humans for them.


Ah these might be interesting reading:

RESPONDENT: I guess I’m searching for some distinction between the feeling of aggression and forcefulness. Also between passionate excitement and enthusiasm and actual being fully engaged.
RICHARD: Perhaps a personal anecdote will throw some light upon the subject of being fully engaged: some years ago whilst in a supermarket my wife and I had a pack stolen from the shopping trolley we were using when our backs were turned; I saw a young man disappearing along the aisle with our pack and on out through the turnstile; I went off after him at a brisk pace, negotiated the turnstile easily, and moved out through the self-opening doors; there was an ornamental garden between me and the car-park wherein off in the distance the young man could be seen heading away; I cleared the garden in one leap – seeing each and every plant and flower in detail as I sailed over it – and soon caught up to him as, glancing over his shoulder and seeing me coming, he headed for a crowded mall to the left ... and eventually regained the pack without a fight or even any display of intimidation. Upon returning to the supermarket I passed by the garden, through the pathway provided, and noticed by its width that I would not ordinarily be able to leap over it ... necessity provides all the calorific energy required.
He was a big, muscular young man such that I would not wish to enter into a ring with as I would be bound to come off second-best in any such organised sport. He knew that he had crossed the line in regards to the legal laws and social protocol and fully expected to pay the price for his actions ... his bluff and bluster collapsed like a leaky balloon when confronted in the mall with the straightforward request for the return of property not belonging to him.
Interestingly enough I was not even breathing heavily.[link]


RESPONDENT: Do you live a moral life? If so, why?
RICHARD: Being free from malice and sorrow, I am automatically happy and harmless. Thus I have no need for morals whatsoever. Morals are designed to control the wayward self.
RESPONDENT: Would you lie, cheat and steal?
RICHARD: If the situation calls for it, yes indeed. Whilst some semblance of social order prevails, such actions as stealing are not necessary. The government bureaucracy however, being adversarial by nature, occasionally calls for some creative massaging of the truth regarding my life-style. [link]


and there are other instances of AF or people in PCE handling 'dangerous' situations just fine, e.g.:
I have read on this forum some debates from anti-AF people that they think PCE's make one more prone to danger because one wouldn't be motivated to avoid it. Well, yesterday I was in PCE/EE mode and I was at the park with my daughter and another woman and her daughter. And storm clouds rolled in. It was magnificent! They were so dark and gray and fat, and there was a lot of lovely, strong wind, which once the children were assured that no tornado was coming, they relaxed into it and let the wind blow them around. Well, about 10 minutes into this lovely pre-storm activity, lightening struck a tree and an electric line right next to the park. A fire started and the electric line made these bass-like booming noises. Well, my friend that I was with started running away frantically, with her child. (Which was also funny because I drove and had the car keys...but I digress...) I just sort of calmly gathered up my daughter and walked away. She was incredibly shaken up and afraid, and I felt nothing except maybe some intense interest about the sound of two forms of electricity meeting (the line and the lightening). But no one was harmed, or even close to harmed, and it was fine. [link]


more from richard:
RESPONDENT: Also, about the instinctive brain, I don’t think that one can eliminate the primary instinct of fear. I’m speaking about instinctive fear not emotional one. I saw a documentary about a rare disease (only 3 persons in the world suffer from it) which extinguishes fear. Those people didn’t know what a danger is, and although in rest they were perfectly normal persons, they needed another person to care for them. I remember this disease had something to do with the amygdala, but I’m not sure. They had no fear of heights, they couldn’t recognize what was all about when presented with a photo of a terrified person, they paid no attention when crossing the street, etc.
RICHARD: It may be pertinent to point out that I am not referring to a disease which afflicts a person: I am advising of an altruistic ‘self’-immolation (which means that one acts, deliberately and consciously, with the knowledge aforethought that such a ‘self’-sacrifice is to the benefit of this body and that body and every body).
The knowledge aforethought comes from the PCE.
As for what those peoples with diseased amygdalae experience: I easily comprehend what danger is; I do not need another person to care for me; I fully understand what heights imply; I can readily recognise the terrified appearance of a person in both a photograph and face-to-face ... and I find that I take more care crossing a street than what the normal person does. [link]
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Dauphin Supple Chirp, modified 13 Years ago at 4/15/11 11:23 AM
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RE: Having trouble with a belief and asking for assistance

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Here's my (game theoretically colored) perspective on this. It's really quite simple: This body is a tool my genes use to maximize their reproductive success. They do this by causing pleasant or unpleasant feelings in response to stimuli. That is their strategy and the reason our bodies are the way they are as a result of evolution.

The players are genes, not individuals.
The payout is reproductive success of the genes, not individuals.
The body is a tool created and used by the genes to implement their strategies.

A wise person realizes that the mechanisms that produce pleasant feelings in response to stimuli have the sole "intended" purpose of enforcing / carrying out the strategies of genes. Any happiness "we" may be experiencing that way is a side effect.

It's just like slaughtering cows in a factory farm. You get paid money, which creates a pleasant feeling in you, which is the mechanism by which your body is motivated to carry out your employer's agenda. No more, no less.

Just like you can walk away from the job in the factory farm to find greater happiness elsewhere, you can walk away from the existence of living a life geared solely toward gratification of sense pleasures (which some call "sleeping while awake"). It's not trivial or easy, and the path is often unpleasant, but once you get to fruition of stream entry, I don't think it's possible to still doubt it's well worth it.

I should also clearly state that, while it is indeed neither easy nor trivial, it is very possible and requires no more than basic ethics, good technique (a good teacher), and a few months of daily or twice-daily half-hour meditation sessions; no special talents or hocus pocus.

(Obviously my personal point of view in the last paragraph and a half is Theravāda, not AF, about which I admittedly know very little.)

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