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Who Is This? What's Happening?

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Who Is This? What's Happening? Faith N Luster 2/13/20 9:05 PM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? shargrol 2/14/20 5:26 AM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Mista Tibbs 2/14/20 3:57 PM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Bardo 2/14/20 4:45 PM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Jim Smith 2/15/20 7:59 AM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 2/15/20 1:02 AM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Bardo 2/15/20 3:26 PM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 2/15/20 4:07 PM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Jim Smith 2/15/20 1:45 AM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Jim Smith 2/15/20 3:44 AM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 2/15/20 4:44 AM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Jim Smith 2/15/20 6:47 AM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 2/15/20 7:10 AM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Jim Smith 2/15/20 7:39 AM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 2/15/20 7:47 AM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Jim Smith 2/15/20 8:04 AM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Bardo 2/16/20 8:43 AM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Jim Smith 2/16/20 11:38 AM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Bardo 2/16/20 1:44 PM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 2/16/20 2:19 PM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Bardo 2/16/20 3:12 PM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Jim Smith 2/16/20 2:33 PM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Bardo 2/16/20 3:15 PM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Jim Smith 2/16/20 4:41 PM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 2/16/20 3:38 PM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Jim Smith 2/16/20 4:38 PM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 2/17/20 6:52 AM
RE: Who Is This? What's Happening? T 2/17/20 7:15 AM
Who Is This? What's Happening?
unity universe transcendental meditation
Answer
2/13/20 9:05 PM
I have been practicing TM for about six months. It has changed my life completely and I value the peace it has brought to my life. However, the past couple of months I have been horrible about doing it regularly. I will do it a night here and a morning there, but it is not consistent and it is something I decided I need to be active about because I could see my quality of day-to-day life deteriorating significantly. But something new has developed and I'm not sure what to do or think about it...

I am in school, pursuing a degree that always me to do research into quantum physics, physiology and human consciousness. While doing a research paper, we were discussing how there is not much scientific evidence to support certain things, but one who has experienced it knows it to be true, and the amount of people who have experienced it, combined with ancient teachings, makes it a pretty profound and nearly-proven theory.

I decided to take a break in the evening and do my meditation before continuing my research paper, as I was having troubles deciding how to present these things (that have little scientific backing) as fact. Then the strangest thing happened. I approached the subtlest state of consciousness- pure awareness, and suddenly heard a voice. Now, I didn't just hear it, I *communicated* with it. It wasn't simply talking to me, it was *teaching* me. The voice explained how all of these things come together, as well as how to scientifically prove the existence of what I was struggling with.

Now, normally, I would simply say that this was just a projection of my subconscious "talking through" my dilemma. The problem is that the voice stated knowledge that I did not have. Terminology that I did not know. Facts about how things work that I've never even considered looking up. This knowledge was 100% not mine. When I came out of my meditation, I immediately wrote down everything I was told. I even misspelled some things because I had never heard of them. Then I fact checked things. It was all correct. I had this entire thesis of how to scientifically prove the existence of things just handed to me, and it was approached in a completely different way than any scientist has ever reported. 

While I am beyond thankful for the information, and quite excited to eventually be able to apply the knowledge, I am constantly wondering who this voice was. I keep trying to convince myself that it was me, but it is simply impossible, because as I said previously, none of this was knowledge that I've read, heard, etc. Further, it wasn't as if I was "overhearing" or "eavesdropping", I wasn't just tapping in to Unity Consciousness- this voice was speaking directly to me, answering my questions, everything. So.. who is it? And why is it giving me this knowledge?

Another question: if this experience continues, does it interfere with the effects of my TM? 

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/14/20 5:26 AM as a reply to Faith N Luster.
No one knows what creativity is. It can show up as just normal inspiration and much more rarely as these sorts of "data download" experience. But what is creativity? No one really knows, yet it happens all the time....

But like everything in life, we need to be grateful yet skeptical. Explore the information you have been given and see if it holds up. Don't believe it 100% but also don't be disrespectful about what happened. 

In pretty much every culture ever, there have been "muse" type ideas/entitities which are a way of trying to make sense of the spark of creativity/wisdom kinds of stuff. But there are also "trickster" type ideas/entitities in most cultures too.

emoticon

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/14/20 3:57 PM as a reply to Faith N Luster.
Brain termites make me sick emoticon
I really don't know but please bless us with this thesis when it is done!

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/14/20 4:45 PM as a reply to Faith N Luster.
Reminds me of Neale Donald Walsch. He wrote a spectacular set of books called Conversations with God in which he received direction from an inner voice while writing those books. Fascinating, for sure.

I think, if I recall correctly, Jeddah Mali has a similar thing going on.

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/15/20 7:59 AM as a reply to Faith N Luster.
Faith N Luster:
...
While I am beyond thankful for the information, and quite excited to eventually be able to apply the knowledge, I am constantly wondering who this voice was. I keep trying to convince myself that it was me, but it is simply impossible, because as I said previously, none of this was knowledge that I've read, heard, etc. Further, it wasn't as if I was "overhearing" or "eavesdropping", I wasn't just tapping in to Unity Consciousness- this voice was speaking directly to me, answering my questions, everything. So.. who is it? And why is it giving me this knowledge?

Another question: if this experience continues, does it interfere with the effects of my TM? 

Hi,

If you want to know more about the voice, ask it who it is. You might also ask: Why is he helping you? Is he working alone or with a group? What else is possible with the communication? 

I have had related, but not identical experiences, and described them on my web site: http://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/psi_experience

It can be helpful to know you are not alone.

If you want to find other people who will be interested and accepting of your experiences, I recommend looking into Spiritualist Churches in your area. You have to use your own judgement about them they are not all the same (just because they have Spiritual in their name don't forget the people are human and will have good qualities and flaws like every other group of people). I found the Spiritualist Churces in my area were very helpful to me.

This facebook group is also a good place to connect with people and ask questions: https://www.facebook.com/groups/evidenceforafterlife/

In my opinion the most likely explanation of the voice is that  you are communicating with the spirit of a deceased person, maybe a deceased scientist. If he can give you verifiable information about his life, it would be very interesting.  Another possibility is that the voice is an extraterrestrial entity alien/ET.

I would try to keep the conversation with the voice and the meditation practice separate (That is what I do). You can do both if you want to. Some meditation teachers try to discourage communications like this, saying it is a distraction from the meditation. But it doesn't have to be, you can do both. Just like you can have any other interest like tennis or camping and still practice meditation.

It is considered better to set aside a consistent time (something like from once a day to once a week) for the communicating with the voice and only communicate during that time. This is to prevent either you or the voice from over doing it and it turning into an obsession. Explain this to the voice. But use your judgement, it is not a hard and fast rule. Also you don't want to pester the voice too much if he has other things to be doing etc.

If you have any questions you would like to ask me, feel free to do so. If materialists start harassing us in this thread (which has happened to me before in this forum when I have posted on this subject) you can contact me at the email address in the link to my web site above, it is at the bottom the left margin.

I would be very interested to know what the voice has told you. Can you say anything more about that. (I understand you might not want to reveal it before you publish your work).

You also wote:

While doing a research paper, we were discussing how there is not much scientific evidence to support certain things, but one who has experienced it knows it to be true, and the amount of people who have experienced it, combined with ancient teachings, makes it a pretty profound and nearly-proven theory.
I would also be interested to hear more specifically about what you are referring to here.

There is acutally a lot of scientific research into some of these phenomenon but it is not well known. I might be able to provide links if you let me know more about the subject you are referring to. This is a good starting point: http://www.deanradin.com/evidence/evidence.htm
(This might be of interest as well: https://sites.google.com/site/chs4o8pt/summary_of_evidence)

Also you don't say exactly what your research is about. Are you in grad school? I suppose you know you could ruin your career before it starts if you write on certain subjects? If materialists persecute a nobel prize winner, imagine what would happen to an ordinary scientist. I am not qualified to advise you much on what is safe to write about, if you want advice on that area Dean Radin would probably be a good person to ask ( http://www.deanradin.org )

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/15/20 1:02 AM as a reply to Faith N Luster.
I just listened to an Adyashanti broadcast where he mentions things like this happening and warns about giving oneself totally to it, without any scepticism, as one doesn't know what one is giving oneself to, because there are all sorts of archetypes in our collective subconscious. He also says that it can be useful stuff too, pretty much what Shargrol said above. 

I had one similar experience as a teenager, but it was only one sentence. 

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/15/20 1:45 AM as a reply to Faith N Luster.
The advice to be wary of "tricksters" is appropriate, but the fact that the voice is giving information of a scientific nature that can be verified suggests the voice is sincere. Many people report experiences but the information can't be verified - and I consider those to be a totally different phenomenon and I am usually skeptical about them. But when there is verifiable information, that is something else. Even so, there are dangers involved, sometimes other less trustworthy voices takeover the communication so caution is always a good policy. And supposing the voice is the spirit of a scientist, that doesn't mean he is an expert on subjects outside his area of expertise - just like with a living person. 

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/15/20 3:44 AM as a reply to Jim Smith.
The possibility that the voice is some how created by the unconscious as conduit for information obtained psychically would be more likely if a person set out with the intention of making contact with disembodied entities. If it happens spontaneously as seems to have happened in this case, my opinion is that it is more likely to be an actual entity that wants to be helpful. ( I am not saying definately, I am saying "likely".)

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/15/20 4:44 AM as a reply to Jim Smith.
You seem to be rather confident in you views about this, Jim. What knowledge are you basing this on?

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/15/20 6:47 AM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
You seem to be rather confident in you views about this, Jim. What knowledge are you basing this on?


I've read extensively of the works by people who have investigated the phenomena, and the works by people who have experienced the phenomena. At Spiritualist churches and other venues I've met many people who have experienced the phenomena. And I've experienced phenomena myself and studied practical aspects of it in classes at Spiritualist churches..

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/15/20 7:10 AM as a reply to Jim Smith.
That sounds interesting.

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/15/20 7:39 AM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
That sounds interesting.

The first time I communicated in a class where I could get confirmation of information I received from my classmates' deceased relatives, it left me feeling stunned for a couple of days.

And I put the phenomenon to use (when I used to work as an engineer and in developing my own inventions) in a practical way that is somewhat similar to what Faith N Luster described. To be able to solve engineering problems is also pretty stunning.

I would recommend anyone who has a problem and wants to try this to lie down and do some relaxation exercises try to get to the edge of sleep, and then ask a question. "How can I ..." is the best type of question to ask. Ask to be shown how to do something rather than ask for it to be done. You get assistance in proportion to the effort you make. The answer might come in symbolic imagery or it might come to you at odd momens later in the day. You can ask God, the universe, your spirit guides, your unconscious mind, the collective unconscious, the flying spaghetti monster. It doesn't really matter what you believe about the phenomenon. It just works. I think  Erwin Schrödinger and Max Planck, two Nobel Prize winning physicists and founders of quantum mechanics, were right in their belief that consciousness is fundamental. Matter comes from consciousness not vice versa so whatever you believe about the source of the phenomenon ultimately it is all the same thing.

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/15/20 7:47 AM as a reply to Jim Smith.
Ah. Thankyou, that is interesting. I have actually done some versions of that and can confirm that it works. I have been doing that throughout my life and definitely gotten responses, although not in words. For instance, when I was striving to get into equanimity early in my practice, I had a vision (involving more senses than sight) in which I was trying to climb into a glider plane that was effortlessly gliding above me. The climbing was the antithesis to that effortless gliding, and the vision pointed out the irony very vividly. "Point taken", I thought, and it did help. Information that I "shouldn't" be able to have has appeared to me in dreams. I haven't thought that much about where it comes from and I haven't had the opportunity to learn to work with it actively. I was religious as a child (despite being born in an atheist family) and used prayer as a tool and found that it worked so I sort of kept doing some version of it, but not in any advanced way.

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/15/20 8:04 AM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Ah. Thankyou, that is interesting. I have actually done some versions of that and can confirm that it works. I have been doing that throughout my life and definitely gotten responses, although not in words. For instance, when I was striving to get into equanimity early in my practice, I had a vision (involving more senses than sight) in which I was trying to climb into a glider plane that was effortlessly gliding above me. The climbing was the antithesis to that effortless gliding, and the vision pointed out the irony very vividly. "Point taken", I thought, and it did help. Information that I "shouldn't" be able to have has appeared to me in dreams. I haven't thought that much about where it comes from and I haven't had the opportunity to learn to work with it actively. I was religious as a child (despite being born in an atheist family) and used prayer as a tool and found that it worked so I sort of kept doing some version of it, but not in any advanced way.

Yes it is very natural for people to do this. It's too bad there are influential sectors in society that try to suppress it.

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/15/20 3:26 PM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
I just listened to an Adyashanti broadcast where he mentions things like this happening and warns about giving oneself totally to it, without any scepticism, as one doesn't know what one is giving oneself to, because there are all sorts of archetypes in our collective subconscious. He also says that it can be useful stuff too, pretty much what Shargrol said above. 

I had one similar experience as a teenager, but it was only one sentence. 

I wonder if this was the video? It was streamed live two days ago.

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/15/20 4:07 PM as a reply to Bardo.
Bardo:
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
I just listened to an Adyashanti broadcast where he mentions things like this happening and warns about giving oneself totally to it, without any scepticism, as one doesn't know what one is giving oneself to, because there are all sorts of archetypes in our collective subconscious. He also says that it can be useful stuff too, pretty much what Shargrol said above. 

I had one similar experience as a teenager, but it was only one sentence. 

I wonder if this was the video? It was streamed live two days ago.

Yes, it was. Thanks!

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/16/20 8:43 AM as a reply to Faith N Luster.
Faith N Luster:

Now, I didn't just hear it, I *communicated* with it. It wasn't simply talking to me, it was *teaching* me. The voice explained how all of these things come together, as well as how to scientifically prove the existence of what I was struggling with.

In regard to Linda's post, I listened to the section in question. You can jump right to the relevant part here. I would consider this to be an exceptional, cautious and wise suggestion by Adyashanti in terms of what you experience. 

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/16/20 11:38 AM as a reply to Bardo.
Bardo:
Faith N Luster:

Now, I didn't just hear it, I *communicated* with it. It wasn't simply talking to me, it was *teaching* me. The voice explained how all of these things come together, as well as how to scientifically prove the existence of what I was struggling with.

In regard to Linda's post, I listened to the section in question. You can jump right to the relevant part here. I would consider this to be an exceptional, cautious and wise suggestion by Adyashanti in terms of what you experience. 
I listened starting from the "here" link. 

I agree the voices should not be followed blindly. One should treat them with the same skepticism as you would and attribute the same "authority" to them as you would if it was another living human is speaking to you. You always have to use your own judgement when following the advice of "vocies". In general you should not do something just because a "voice" told you to do it if you would be reluctant to do it on your own.

However the fact that the voice is providing useful verifiable information is a good reason to pay attention and to continue communicating. As I wrote above, limiting the communications to specific pre-arranged times helps to protect the experiencer. (I forgot to mention that pre-arranged times is also a courtesy to the voice so it does not have to come and go at the whim and the beck and call of the experiencer.)

I also agree with the video that it is not appropriate to attribute the voices to God.

And, OBEs are notorious for yielding information that does not prove true when attempts are made to verify it. Some do provide true verifiable information and these are most often (but not always) spontaneous rather than deliberately induced. My opinioin is that induced OBEs are very often lucid dreams. However some OBEs, spontaneous and induced, do seem to be genuine instances of the mind traveling outside the body. A few highly talented psychics have been able to induce OBEs capable of producing verifiable information but as far as I know the authors of books on how to have OBEs are not themselves able to routinely provide verifiable information from their OBEs. Therefore I definately agree with the video when he cautions against taking OBE's too seriously - if they are not providing verifiable information.

However I think overall the video was a bit vague (to be fair it is answering a vague question, and the speaker acknowledges the subject is too vast to cover entirely) so it is hard for me to say if I agree or disagree with it, and I'm not sure exactly how it applies to what Faith N Luster described (hearing a voice helping him with verifiable information).

Bardo, if you care to be more specific in how you think the video applies to Faith n Luster it might produce more discussion.


Also in any discussion of this subject it is useful to mention that hearing voices by itself is not necessarily a sign of mental illness. Schizophrenia for example has a host of other symptoms besides hallucinations. The symptoms include delusions, confused thoughts, disorganized speech, trouble concentrating, and movement disorders.

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/16/20 1:44 PM as a reply to Jim Smith.
While these phenomena are interesting, they detract from the primary undertaking. My approach could be considered Zen if I was pushed into a school of thought. If I see the Buddha, I will kill the Buddha - in other words, all mental formations are to be considered as defilements if given the wrong kind of attention. If one colludes in communication with a mind structure, regardless of how interesting that mind structure presents itself, then one is entertaining and sustaining binary conceptions - the very thing we are trying to uproot. I have applied this to my own visions of Buddha.

I won't get into any philosophical debates about what is mind? Where is mind? Is it inside? Is it outside? Is it everywhere? Is it nowhere? Is it both everywhere and nowhere? Is it neither both everywhere and nowhere? These things are, and always will be, superfluous. 

The mind we think we know has one all-pervading characteristic: it is constructed of illusion.

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/16/20 2:19 PM as a reply to Bardo.
Just to make sure I understand... doesn't that imply that you shouldn't be talking to us either? 

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/16/20 2:33 PM as a reply to Bardo.
Bardo:
While these phenomena are interesting, they detract from the primary undertaking.

Hi Bardo,

Your message says it is a reply to me but it doesn't quote anything so I have to assume a context, sorry if I get it wrong... here goes...)

Do you mean this is true for everyone, or just yourself?

I don't believe enlightenment is the primary purpose of all existence. Some people pursue it and I admire them the way I admire anyone who shows persistence and determination and devleops expertise and success in their chosen field, but I don't see it as necessarily the primary undertaking for everyone, and I don't believe pursuing enlightenment is the only acceptable purpose for meditating.



My approach could be considered Zen if I was pushed into a school of thought. If I see the Buddha, I will kill the Buddha - in other words, all mental formations are to be considered as defilements if given the wrong kind of attention. If one colludes in communication with a mind structure, regardless of how interesting that mind structure presents itself, then one is entertaining and sustaining binary conceptions - the very thing we are trying to uproot. I have applied this to my own visions of Buddha.


I won't get into any philosophical debates about what is mind? Where is mind? Is it inside? Is it outside? Is it everywhere? Is it nowhere? Is it both everywhere and nowhere? Is it neither both everywhere and nowhere? These things are, and always will be, superfluous. 



I have my opinions but I hate debating. I have come to believe that people mostly use logic to defend their beliefs not to form them. Debates rarely change anyone's mind. But sometimes I like to discuss things to increase my understanding of other people and to increase their understanding of me.


The mind we think we know has one all-pervading characteristic: it is constructed of illusion.

You would talk to real people who give you advice on your mundane life don't you? Why should someone ignore a helpful disembodied voice simply because it is disembodied? I believe a disembodied voice can be a real "person" existing in a non-physical environment just as a physical biological being can be a person in a physical environment. Do you disagree with that and is that the basis of your opinion on the subject?


Metta

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/16/20 3:12 PM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Just to make sure I understand... doesn't that imply that you shouldn't be talking to us either? 


Yes, I see. It's all very messy.

I back out and retreat.

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/16/20 3:15 PM as a reply to Jim Smith.
Jim Smith:
Bardo:
While these phenomena are interesting, they detract from the primary undertaking.

Hi Bardo,

Your message says it is a reply to me but it doesn't quote anything so I have to assume a context, sorry if I get it wrong... here goes...)

Do you mean this is true for everyone, or just yourself?

I don't believe enlightenment is the primary purpose of all existence. Some people pursue it and I admire them the way I admire anyone who shows persistence and determination and devleops expertise and success in their chosen field, but I don't see it as necessarily the primary undertaking for everyone, and I don't believe pursuing enlightenment is the only acceptable purpose for meditating.



My approach could be considered Zen if I was pushed into a school of thought. If I see the Buddha, I will kill the Buddha - in other words, all mental formations are to be considered as defilements if given the wrong kind of attention. If one colludes in communication with a mind structure, regardless of how interesting that mind structure presents itself, then one is entertaining and sustaining binary conceptions - the very thing we are trying to uproot. I have applied this to my own visions of Buddha.


I won't get into any philosophical debates about what is mind? Where is mind? Is it inside? Is it outside? Is it everywhere? Is it nowhere? Is it both everywhere and nowhere? Is it neither both everywhere and nowhere? These things are, and always will be, superfluous. 



I have my opinions but I hate debating. I have come to believe that people mostly use logic to defend their beliefs not to form them. Debates rarely change anyone's mind. But sometimes I like to discuss things to increase my understanding of other people and to increase their understanding of me.


The mind we think we know has one all-pervading characteristic: it is constructed of illusion.

You would talk to real people who give you advice on your mundane life don't you? Why should someone ignore a helpful disembodied voice simply because it is disembodied? I believe a disembodied voice can be a real "person" existing in a non-physical environment just as a physical biological being can be a person in a physical environment. Do you disagree with that and is that the basis of your opinion on the subject?


Metta

Thanks! Nice reply but I'm out of my league from here onwards. 

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/16/20 3:38 PM as a reply to Jim Smith.
Concerning purposes and the goal of awakening... I'd like to think that awakening can be combined with talking to people (embodied or, should the occasion arise, disembodied) and doing stuff just for the fun of it now and then. I rather often see or hear comments from different people about how this and that aren't the goal and are only distractions and I'm starting to get a bit pissed off. Not by any person in particular and definitely not by Bardo. I have great respect for people who decide to set some things aside in order to prioritize their practice. I do it too. But there are obviously people out there who are awakened and still enjoy the quirks and special effects of their practice as well as music, films, meeting with others, love, etc. I'm going for that. Sure, that could be the ego talking, but isn't it also possible that awareness simply enjoys playing once in a while? 

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/16/20 4:38 PM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Concerning purposes and the goal of awakening... I'd like to think that awakening can be combined with talking to people (embodied or, should the occasion arise, disembodied) and doing stuff just for the fun of it now and then. I rather often see or hear comments from different people about how this and that aren't the goal and are only distractions and I'm starting to get a bit pissed off. Not by any person in particular and definitely not by Bardo. I have great respect for people who decide to set some things aside in order to prioritize their practice. I do it too. But there are obviously people out there who are awakened and still enjoy the quirks and special effects of their practice as well as music, films, meeting with others, love, etc. I'm going for that. Sure, that could be the ego talking, but isn't it also possible that awareness simply enjoys playing once in a while? 

I agree with you.

In a certain context, a student asks their meditation teacher about an experience they had during meditation and should they pursue it. They are studying with the teacher to gain enlightenment so implied in their question is "will this help me get enlightenment". In that case the teacher might be right to tell the student it is a distraction from what he is trying to teach the student: 'The time you devote to my teaching is better spent on what I teach not on these other things.' I think some people mistakenly extend the principle outside the narrow context in which it is appropriate.  People can have interestes outside the search for enlightenment and not everyone meditates for the purpose of getting enlightenment.

Sometimes I have a hard time figuring out what renunciation and letting go of attachments means. For example if I am trying to decide whether to have dessert after dinner, if I have it, am I attached to senese pleasures? If I skip dessert, am I attached to renunciation to gratify my ego? The monks solve this problem by having strict rules so they don't have to make decisions. 

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/16/20 4:41 PM as a reply to Bardo.
Bardo:

Thanks! Nice reply but I'm out of my league from here onwards. 


Oh,  I thought you were doing pretty well.

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/17/20 6:52 AM as a reply to Jim Smith.
Jim Smith:

In a certain context, a student asks their meditation teacher about an experience they had during meditation and should they pursue it. They are studying with the teacher to gain enlightenment so implied in their question is "will this help me get enlightenment". In that case the teacher might be right to tell the student it is a distraction from what he is trying to teach the student: 'The time you devote to my teaching is better spent on what I teach not on these other things.' I think some people mistakenly extend the principle outside the narrow context in which it is appropriate.  People can have interestes outside the search for enlightenment and not everyone meditates for the purpose of getting enlightenment. 


That makes sense! It would actually explain a lot.

As for the later part of your post: I have had instances of wondering about letting go of attachments too. I think giving in to the urging for a dessert does create karma in the sense that it strengthens certains pathways or infrastructures, but I also don’t think there is ever any way to get past that and stay alive in this form. We are mammals, after all. Now, if lying on our deathbead we feel that we don’t want to leave icecream behind, then that might be a problem, I guess. I don’t think I have such a strong attachment to desserts. (In fact, due to some weird intolerances, I can’t eat most desserts, and I’m fine with that. It’s not the end of the world. I really did have an unhealthy attachment to desserts earlier in life. Before getting my diagnoses (ADHD is the relevant one on this case), I self-medicated with sugar to keep my brain from falling asleep. Now I don’t need that, and if there was still a problem with attachments to foods, it seems like something took care of that.)

We are drifting away from the topic now. Sorry about that!

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Faith N Luster, I am a bit of a worryer. It would make me more comfortable if you'd check in now and then to tell us that you are okay. Now, of course you don't have to do that. That is totally up to you. I just would appreciate it a lot. Also, I'm curious about how this develops. 

RE: Who Is This? What's Happening?
Answer
2/17/20 7:15 AM as a reply to Faith N Luster.
All this interesting discussion!

Don't cling to the voice/s, Faith N Luster. Whatever the cause/source/purpose of the experience...it's solely an experience. There may be more good experiences and there may be bad experiences. Don't get hemmed in and attached to the voice or experiences of/with it, or take it too serious. At worst, you've been blessed with a really useful experience - congratulations! Keep on keepin' on. 

After reading the discussions, watching the clip suggested, and considering it from a general perspective... that seems totally safe and non-controversial from all points of view...?