Nothing After 7 Years? - Discussion
Hi Sam,
I'm sorry to hear about your 7 years of famine, but it is an auspicious number ...
You could try investigating your resistance to accepting the present moment, but it sounds like you might be a bit vipassan'ed out.
It sounds like your practice could do with a bit more pleasure and enjoyment. I'm just going to refer you to a post I made yesterday which outlines something you could try. Let us know how you get on if you like.
All the best
agnostic
I'm sorry to hear about your 7 years of famine, but it is an auspicious number ...
You could try investigating your resistance to accepting the present moment, but it sounds like you might be a bit vipassan'ed out.
It sounds like your practice could do with a bit more pleasure and enjoyment. I'm just going to refer you to a post I made yesterday which outlines something you could try. Let us know how you get on if you like.
All the best
agnostic
Sam Gentile:
Tim Farrington:
Sam Gentile:
Tim Farrington:
Sam Gentile:
shargrol, only Quick Reply works here with small messages so I wanted to add here that I read your writeup on Noting practice and I added Out Loud Noting to my meditations 2 days ago. So far, it has been helping me increase mindfulness of objects and seems to lessen discursive thoughts. A winner.
Ha ha! Seriously seven years until what milestone? A&P?
Three Characteristics, you ambitious, headlong, rash and hasty maniac. Lay a fucking groundwork, will ya?
love, tim
I have a question on Out Loud Noting. I just had an excellent 60 min sit with excellent mindfulness. Part of my noting was a lawnmower sound consistently for about a 1/2 hour among other things because it was an sound object that was present during my meditation. Is that right to do? Thanks.
As a barely worthy of the name student of the resident master of Noting Aloud, Papa Che, himself the barely worthy of the name student of Kenneth Folks, and so on back to the Buddha himself, I feel utterly unqualified to answer this question.
However, the answer is hell yes.
Sam Gentile:
Brandon Dayton:
In lieu of broadening your vocab, you can also break your noting down even more simply. If you're not already familiar with it, you might want to check out Shinzen Young's See, Hear, Feel.
https://www.shinzen.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/SeeHearFeelIntroduction_ver1.8.pdf
Can be used entirely in unison with what Daniel is recommending, it is just about using super simple labels in your noting so you don't get too caught up in trying to think up the right label and focus more on the actual sensations.
https://www.shinzen.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/SeeHearFeelIntroduction_ver1.8.pdf
Can be used entirely in unison with what Daniel is recommending, it is just about using super simple labels in your noting so you don't get too caught up in trying to think up the right label and focus more on the actual sensations.
Brandon,
I started using See, Hear, Feel today with my hour meditation. You were indeeed right that the super simple labels in the noting prevents the struggling for looking for the right label. I noticed, per what Daniel had said, that I was able to dramatically increase the frequency of notinicings. I also found that I used Feel for much of the session. Maybe I'm getting old, but I really had a large number of bodily sensations such as tension, pressure, pain, etc. It's like my body is a bundle of knots.
weirdly--- synchronicity, anyone?--- Papa Che just came out with another exercise in simplifying noting vocabulary:
(though with all due scruples, you might want to ask him whether he thinks your Noting is on auto pilot and fluid enough. I would recommend just trying the fucking technique, personally. It is easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission, a law of the spiritual path that has served me well so far.)
Papa Che 
Any way I would like to hear what others think of it once they actually try this. I would suggest only those very familiar with freestyle noting to try this, and feel Noting being almost on auto pilot and fluid.
Tell me what you have noticed after practicing this way. This might as well just be utterly stupid but thank you for trying it out and sharing your findings.
https://youtu.be/hCvzwaOSwek
Any way I would like to hear what others think of it once they actually try this. I would suggest only those very familiar with freestyle noting to try this, and feel Noting being almost on auto pilot and fluid.
Tell me what you have noticed after practicing this way. This might as well just be utterly stupid
but thank you for trying it out and sharing your findings. https://youtu.be/hCvzwaOSwek
Tim Farrington:
Sam Gentile:
Brandon Dayton:
In lieu of broadening your vocab, you can also break your noting down even more simply. If you're not already familiar with it, you might want to check out Shinzen Young's See, Hear, Feel.
https://www.shinzen.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/SeeHearFeelIntroduction_ver1.8.pdf
Can be used entirely in unison with what Daniel is recommending, it is just about using super simple labels in your noting so you don't get too caught up in trying to think up the right label and focus more on the actual sensations.
https://www.shinzen.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/SeeHearFeelIntroduction_ver1.8.pdf
Can be used entirely in unison with what Daniel is recommending, it is just about using super simple labels in your noting so you don't get too caught up in trying to think up the right label and focus more on the actual sensations.
Brandon,
I started using See, Hear, Feel today with my hour meditation. You were indeeed right that the super simple labels in the noting prevents the struggling for looking for the right label. I noticed, per what Daniel had said, that I was able to dramatically increase the frequency of notinicings. I also found that I used Feel for much of the session. Maybe I'm getting old, but I really had a large number of bodily sensations such as tension, pressure, pain, etc. It's like my body is a bundle of knots.
weirdly--- synchronicity, anyone?--- Papa Che just came out with another exercise in simplifying noting vocabulary:
(though with all due scruples, you might want to ask him whether he thinks your Noting is on auto pilot and fluid enough. I would recommend just trying the fucking technique, personally. It is easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission, a law of the spiritual path that has served me well so far.)
Papa Che
Any way I would like to hear what others think of it once they actually try this. I would suggest only those very familiar with freestyle noting to try this, and feel Noting being almost on auto pilot and fluid.
Tell me what you have noticed after practicing this way. This might as well just be utterly stupid but thank you for trying it out and sharing your findings.
https://youtu.be/hCvzwaOSwek
Any way I would like to hear what others think of it once they actually try this. I would suggest only those very familiar with freestyle noting to try this, and feel Noting being almost on auto pilot and fluid.
Tell me what you have noticed after practicing this way. This might as well just be utterly stupid
but thank you for trying it out and sharing your findings. https://youtu.be/hCvzwaOSwek
oh, I don't know if I like this technique (although I haven't tried it yet). I don't think it provides enough context. I can't image myself saying "Awareness" over and over for 60 minutes. How do I get him to come to this topic?
Sam Gentile:
Tim Farrington:
Sam Gentile:
Brandon Dayton:
In lieu of broadening your vocab, you can also break your noting down even more simply. If you're not already familiar with it, you might want to check out Shinzen Young's See, Hear, Feel.
https://www.shinzen.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/SeeHearFeelIntroduction_ver1.8.pdf
Can be used entirely in unison with what Daniel is recommending, it is just about using super simple labels in your noting so you don't get too caught up in trying to think up the right label and focus more on the actual sensations.
https://www.shinzen.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/SeeHearFeelIntroduction_ver1.8.pdf
Can be used entirely in unison with what Daniel is recommending, it is just about using super simple labels in your noting so you don't get too caught up in trying to think up the right label and focus more on the actual sensations.
Brandon,
I started using See, Hear, Feel today with my hour meditation. You were indeeed right that the super simple labels in the noting prevents the struggling for looking for the right label. I noticed, per what Daniel had said, that I was able to dramatically increase the frequency of notinicings. I also found that I used Feel for much of the session. Maybe I'm getting old, but I really had a large number of bodily sensations such as tension, pressure, pain, etc. It's like my body is a bundle of knots.
weirdly--- synchronicity, anyone?--- Papa Che just came out with another exercise in simplifying noting vocabulary:
(though with all due scruples, you might want to ask him whether he thinks your Noting is on auto pilot and fluid enough. I would recommend just trying the fucking technique, personally. It is easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission, a law of the spiritual path that has served me well so far.)
Papa Che
Any way I would like to hear what others think of it once they actually try this. I would suggest only those very familiar with freestyle noting to try this, and feel Noting being almost on auto pilot and fluid.
Tell me what you have noticed after practicing this way. This might as well just be utterly stupid but thank you for trying it out and sharing your findings.
https://youtu.be/hCvzwaOSwek
Any way I would like to hear what others think of it once they actually try this. I would suggest only those very familiar with freestyle noting to try this, and feel Noting being almost on auto pilot and fluid.
Tell me what you have noticed after practicing this way. This might as well just be utterly stupid
but thank you for trying it out and sharing your findings. https://youtu.be/hCvzwaOSwek
oh, I don't know if I like this technique (although I haven't tried it yet). I don't think it provides enough context. I can't image myself saying "Awareness" over and over for 60 minutes. How do I get him to come to this topic?
Hello, hello, calling Papa Che Actual. This Is Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, do you copy? Papa Che Actual, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot here, do you copy? This channel, double click if you're in the shit. Do you copy, Papa Che, do you read this? Over.
Tim Farrington:
Sam Gentile:
Tim Farrington:
Sam Gentile:
Brandon Dayton:
In lieu of broadening your vocab, you can also break your noting down even more simply. If you're not already familiar with it, you might want to check out Shinzen Young's See, Hear, Feel.
https://www.shinzen.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/SeeHearFeelIntroduction_ver1.8.pdf
Can be used entirely in unison with what Daniel is recommending, it is just about using super simple labels in your noting so you don't get too caught up in trying to think up the right label and focus more on the actual sensations.
https://www.shinzen.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/SeeHearFeelIntroduction_ver1.8.pdf
Can be used entirely in unison with what Daniel is recommending, it is just about using super simple labels in your noting so you don't get too caught up in trying to think up the right label and focus more on the actual sensations.
Brandon,
I started using See, Hear, Feel today with my hour meditation. You were indeeed right that the super simple labels in the noting prevents the struggling for looking for the right label. I noticed, per what Daniel had said, that I was able to dramatically increase the frequency of notinicings. I also found that I used Feel for much of the session. Maybe I'm getting old, but I really had a large number of bodily sensations such as tension, pressure, pain, etc. It's like my body is a bundle of knots.
weirdly--- synchronicity, anyone?--- Papa Che just came out with another exercise in simplifying noting vocabulary:
(though with all due scruples, you might want to ask him whether he thinks your Noting is on auto pilot and fluid enough. I would recommend just trying the fucking technique, personally. It is easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission, a law of the spiritual path that has served me well so far.)
Papa Che
Any way I would like to hear what others think of it once they actually try this. I would suggest only those very familiar with freestyle noting to try this, and feel Noting being almost on auto pilot and fluid.
Tell me what you have noticed after practicing this way. This might as well just be utterly stupid but thank you for trying it out and sharing your findings.
https://youtu.be/hCvzwaOSwek
Any way I would like to hear what others think of it once they actually try this. I would suggest only those very familiar with freestyle noting to try this, and feel Noting being almost on auto pilot and fluid.
Tell me what you have noticed after practicing this way. This might as well just be utterly stupid
but thank you for trying it out and sharing your findings. https://youtu.be/hCvzwaOSwek
oh, I don't know if I like this technique (although I haven't tried it yet). I don't think it provides enough context. I can't image myself saying "Awareness" over and over for 60 minutes. How do I get him to come to this topic?
Hello, hello, calling Papa Che Actual. This Is Whiskey Tango Foxtrot, do you copy? Papa Che Actual, Whiskey Tango Foxtrot here, do you copy? This channel, double click if you're in the shit. Do you copy, Papa Che, do you read this? Over.
I'm on Retreat but questions I have for Papa Che or other noting experts:
1) I don't think I like the awareness technique as the word awareness is so disconnected from the event being logged
2) Givin this thread, and what David wants me to do (high frequency noting of events) what do you think of See-Hear-Feel? Do you "approve" of its use in this context?
Anyone questions please help answer
1) I use a fairly advanced but lightly guided meditation app called Waking Up by Sam Harris. At times, it he asks me to look at the thinker of a thought, or who is doing the looking, does it feel that there is a central self in the head, etc. I know the answer to these questions is no intellectually but I don't know how to really perform the inquiry experientially. Any guidance?
Hi Sam Im no Noting Expert also forget about that "awareness" video please as its stupid (well might be worth exploring but only for those very much familiar with the normal labeling noting)
So yes. Forget that "awareness" noting that I tried only once. What I actually do is Notice in the mind what the object is like seeing, comprehanding/knowing what it is, pleasant feeling etc ... but instead just label it with "awareness" and in that moment there is also this very spacious and curious wonder on what is awareness. So yes. Forget about it and sorry for causing confusion. Thank you
I think its fine to use Shinzen's labels. Why not. I prefer Kenneth Folk's labels and added many more of my own so to get into more details, to differentiate between, planning thoughts and image thoughts. I label feelings Unpleasant when not nice and when nice Pleasant, and when just Ok then Neutral.
Also its best to ask "who is seeing/knowing" when such question arises on its own or when attention is on the nose (eyes open n my case) or the eye space, rather than falling into the hindrance of proliferating on that subject, otherwise just keep noting only object which attention is contacting like itching, preassure in the chest or else, hearing, pleasant, thinking, restlessness, joy ...
Kenneth Folk has some good videos on Freestyle Noting Aloud with all the info you might need concerning labeling and what to notice, like mind states, feeling tone, body sensations.
Here is one but please do check the others as he breaks them into categories;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-58IoZMNss
Im no Noting Expert also forget about that "awareness" video please as its stupid (well might be worth exploring but only for those very much familiar with the normal labeling noting)So yes. Forget that "awareness" noting that I tried only once. What I actually do is Notice in the mind what the object is like seeing, comprehanding/knowing what it is, pleasant feeling etc ... but instead just label it with "awareness" and in that moment there is also this very spacious and curious wonder on what is awareness. So yes. Forget about it and sorry for causing confusion. Thank you
I think its fine to use Shinzen's labels. Why not. I prefer Kenneth Folk's labels and added many more of my own so to get into more details, to differentiate between, planning thoughts and image thoughts. I label feelings Unpleasant when not nice and when nice Pleasant, and when just Ok then Neutral.
Also its best to ask "who is seeing/knowing" when such question arises on its own or when attention is on the nose (eyes open n my case) or the eye space, rather than falling into the hindrance of proliferating on that subject, otherwise just keep noting only object which attention is contacting like itching, preassure in the chest or else, hearing, pleasant, thinking, restlessness, joy ...
Kenneth Folk has some good videos on Freestyle Noting Aloud with all the info you might need concerning labeling and what to notice, like mind states, feeling tone, body sensations.
Here is one but please do check the others as he breaks them into categories;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-58IoZMNss
Papa Che Dusko:
Hi Sam Im no Noting Expert also forget about that "awareness" video please as its stupid (well might be worth exploring but only for those very much familiar with the normal labeling noting)
So yes. Forget that "awareness" noting that I tried only once. What I actually do is Notice in the mind what the object is like seeing, comprehanding/knowing what it is, pleasant feeling etc ... but instead just label it with "awareness" and in that moment there is also this very spacious and curious wonder on what is awareness. So yes. Forget about it and sorry for causing confusion. Thank you
I think its fine to use Shinzen's labels. Why not. I prefer Kenneth Folk's labels and added many more of my own so to get into more details, to differentiate between, planning thoughts and image thoughts. I label feelings Unpleasant when not nice and when nice Pleasant, and when just Ok then Neutral.
Also its best to ask "who is seeing/knowing" when such question arises on its own or when attention is on the nose (eyes open n my case) or the eye space, rather than falling into the hindrance of proliferating on that subject, otherwise just keep noting only object which attention is contacting like itching, preassure in the chest or else, hearing, pleasant, thinking, restlessness, joy ...
Kenneth Folk has some good videos on Freestyle Noting Aloud with all the info you might need concerning labeling and what to notice, like mind states, feeling tone, body sensations.
Here is one but please do check the others as he breaks them into categories;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-58IoZMNss
Im no Noting Expert also forget about that "awareness" video please as its stupid (well might be worth exploring but only for those very much familiar with the normal labeling noting)So yes. Forget that "awareness" noting that I tried only once. What I actually do is Notice in the mind what the object is like seeing, comprehanding/knowing what it is, pleasant feeling etc ... but instead just label it with "awareness" and in that moment there is also this very spacious and curious wonder on what is awareness. So yes. Forget about it and sorry for causing confusion. Thank you
I think its fine to use Shinzen's labels. Why not. I prefer Kenneth Folk's labels and added many more of my own so to get into more details, to differentiate between, planning thoughts and image thoughts. I label feelings Unpleasant when not nice and when nice Pleasant, and when just Ok then Neutral.
Also its best to ask "who is seeing/knowing" when such question arises on its own or when attention is on the nose (eyes open n my case) or the eye space, rather than falling into the hindrance of proliferating on that subject, otherwise just keep noting only object which attention is contacting like itching, preassure in the chest or else, hearing, pleasant, thinking, restlessness, joy ...
Kenneth Folk has some good videos on Freestyle Noting Aloud with all the info you might need concerning labeling and what to notice, like mind states, feeling tone, body sensations.
Here is one but please do check the others as he breaks them into categories;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0-58IoZMNss
Thanks for your answer. So Shinzen Young or Mahasi Sayadaw?
When those questions do come up on your own how do you focus back on the "thinker" or "observer" to see there is nothing there?
I don't see if there is nothing there the question arise like anything else. If inquire into it you might sense where that knower might be; is it in the tingling of the itch on nose ? ... nah as that itch seems up front and beneath "it". Ok so is it in the eyes or behind the eyes? .. hm ... don't know, can't tell but there is this sense that all other sensations seem, right or left or down or up from this sense of knower/watcher which seems in the eyes or maybe there I don't know
Im not familiar with Shinzen's work but I don't see it being much different to Mahasi or even Kenneth teaching.
the question arise like anything else. If inquire into it you might sense where that knower might be; is it in the tingling of the itch on nose ? ... nah as that itch seems up front and beneath "it". Ok so is it in the eyes or behind the eyes? .. hm ... don't know, can't tell but there is this sense that all other sensations seem, right or left or down or up from this sense of knower/watcher which seems in the eyes or maybe there I don't know Im not familiar with Shinzen's work but I don't see it being much different to Mahasi or even Kenneth teaching.
That was a very clear explanation by Brandon.
What I will add is not to worry if at times when noting becomes fast (yes the tempo and clarity will change) it is possible to suddenly use wrong label for a certain noticed object that too is fine if you have noticed that. This all thing is about Noticing and Noting/Labeling keeps us engaged so not to get sidetracked by hindrances.
For instance yesterday I was doing speed noting aloud and a few times there was "inability to find a label" which was noted and labeled as "I don't know". Or one time I noted "blinking" which did not happen. Instead what happened was "anticipation" that there might be an eyelid blinking
All this is fine and is Noticed and there is no need to beat oneself for it.
Also adjust your "speed" according to clarity. If all seems very unclear then slow down a bit as you want to really Note what is arising rather than chasing stuff just to gain speed
I'm sure you will see all this for yourself through practicing.
What I will add is not to worry if at times when noting becomes fast (yes the tempo and clarity will change) it is possible to suddenly use wrong label for a certain noticed object
that too is fine if you have noticed that. This all thing is about Noticing and Noting/Labeling keeps us engaged so not to get sidetracked by hindrances. For instance yesterday I was doing speed noting aloud and a few times there was "inability to find a label" which was noted and labeled as "I don't know". Or one time I noted "blinking" which did not happen. Instead what happened was "anticipation" that there might be an eyelid blinking
All this is fine and is Noticed and there is no need to beat oneself for it.
Also adjust your "speed" according to clarity. If all seems very unclear then slow down a bit as you want to really Note what is arising rather than chasing stuff just to gain speed
I'm sure you will see all this for yourself through practicing.
Papa Che Dusko:
That was a very clear explanation by Brandon.
What I will add is not to worry if at times when noting becomes fast (yes the tempo and clarity will change) it is possible to suddenly use wrong label for a certain noticed object that too is fine if you have noticed that. This all thing is about Noticing and Noting/Labeling keeps us engaged so not to get sidetracked by hindrances.
For instance yesterday I was doing speed noting aloud and a few times there was "inability to find a label" which was noted and labeled as "I don't know". Or one time I noted "blinking" which did not happen. Instead what happened was "anticipation" that there might be an eyelid blinking
All this is fine and is Noticed and there is no need to beat oneself for it.
Also adjust your "speed" according to clarity. If all seems very unclear then slow down a bit as you want to really Note what is arising rather than chasing stuff just to gain speed
I'm sure you will see all this for yourself through practicing.
What I will add is not to worry if at times when noting becomes fast (yes the tempo and clarity will change) it is possible to suddenly use wrong label for a certain noticed object
that too is fine if you have noticed that. This all thing is about Noticing and Noting/Labeling keeps us engaged so not to get sidetracked by hindrances. For instance yesterday I was doing speed noting aloud and a few times there was "inability to find a label" which was noted and labeled as "I don't know". Or one time I noted "blinking" which did not happen. Instead what happened was "anticipation" that there might be an eyelid blinking
All this is fine and is Noticed and there is no need to beat oneself for it.
Also adjust your "speed" according to clarity. If all seems very unclear then slow down a bit as you want to really Note what is arising rather than chasing stuff just to gain speed
I'm sure you will see all this for yourself through practicing.
Sam Gentile:
Papa Che Dusko:
That was a very clear explanation by Brandon.
What I will add is not to worry if at times when noting becomes fast (yes the tempo and clarity will change) it is possible to suddenly use wrong label for a certain noticed object that too is fine if you have noticed that. This all thing is about Noticing and Noting/Labeling keeps us engaged so not to get sidetracked by hindrances.
For instance yesterday I was doing speed noting aloud and a few times there was "inability to find a label" which was noted and labeled as "I don't know". Or one time I noted "blinking" which did not happen. Instead what happened was "anticipation" that there might be an eyelid blinking
All this is fine and is Noticed and there is no need to beat oneself for it.
Also adjust your "speed" according to clarity. If all seems very unclear then slow down a bit as you want to really Note what is arising rather than chasing stuff just to gain speed
I'm sure you will see all this for yourself through practicing.
What I will add is not to worry if at times when noting becomes fast (yes the tempo and clarity will change) it is possible to suddenly use wrong label for a certain noticed object
that too is fine if you have noticed that. This all thing is about Noticing and Noting/Labeling keeps us engaged so not to get sidetracked by hindrances. For instance yesterday I was doing speed noting aloud and a few times there was "inability to find a label" which was noted and labeled as "I don't know". Or one time I noted "blinking" which did not happen. Instead what happened was "anticipation" that there might be an eyelid blinking
All this is fine and is Noticed and there is no need to beat oneself for it.
Also adjust your "speed" according to clarity. If all seems very unclear then slow down a bit as you want to really Note what is arising rather than chasing stuff just to gain speed
I'm sure you will see all this for yourself through practicing.
I cant speak in Daniel's stead, but I assume he ment as soon you start Noting that itch is part of the Body sensations and that worry is a Mind state, meaning one is Mind and other one Body you are basically working on the Mind & Body stage of Insight
Thats already onthe Path. Its not yet full-on "on fire" practice but that will come with A&P stage. Without Mindfulness there is no Path. So Noting fasilitates Mindfulness and keeps you engaged so not to have too many lapses in noting the stream of consciousness.Short said; "If you are Noting, you are doing it right" - Kenneth Folk (of course if you are noting matter of fact and not jjust imagining stuff)
EDIT; your feeling will change. Keep noting that also like Unpleasant, Neutral and Pleasant. You will like the meditation then you will hate it then you will like it again then you will hate it then you will be neutral about it and then you get Stream Entry
Do not focus on positive feelings. FOCUS ON ACCEPTANCE and keep noting in a way that keeps you engaged without lapse in mindfulness (noting aloud or silent which ever works) Also no matter how difficult it gets try not to STOP your daily practice of 45 minutes minimum. If it really gets so disqusting and miserable at some point or the body pain creates so much agony DO NOT STOP the practice
Keep at it with more acceptance and keep sitting once a day. Most of us can sit through 45 minutes of agony, disqust and misery or even fear and after give one self an icecream as "well done" What Im saying is be open to this practice getting VERY unpleasant at some stage. Maybe not for all but for me it was and even right now it still is Its my mind and not the practice itself that makes it feel the way it feels. Acceptance and Faith in this Path. May you practice well!
Tim Farrington:
Sam Gentile:
Papa Che Dusko:
That was a very clear explanation by Brandon.
What I will add is not to worry if at times when noting becomes fast (yes the tempo and clarity will change) it is possible to suddenly use wrong label for a certain noticed object that too is fine if you have noticed that. This all thing is about Noticing and Noting/Labeling keeps us engaged so not to get sidetracked by hindrances.
For instance yesterday I was doing speed noting aloud and a few times there was "inability to find a label" which was noted and labeled as "I don't know". Or one time I noted "blinking" which did not happen. Instead what happened was "anticipation" that there might be an eyelid blinking
All this is fine and is Noticed and there is no need to beat oneself for it.
Also adjust your "speed" according to clarity. If all seems very unclear then slow down a bit as you want to really Note what is arising rather than chasing stuff just to gain speed
I'm sure you will see all this for yourself through practicing.
What I will add is not to worry if at times when noting becomes fast (yes the tempo and clarity will change) it is possible to suddenly use wrong label for a certain noticed object
that too is fine if you have noticed that. This all thing is about Noticing and Noting/Labeling keeps us engaged so not to get sidetracked by hindrances. For instance yesterday I was doing speed noting aloud and a few times there was "inability to find a label" which was noted and labeled as "I don't know". Or one time I noted "blinking" which did not happen. Instead what happened was "anticipation" that there might be an eyelid blinking
All this is fine and is Noticed and there is no need to beat oneself for it.
Also adjust your "speed" according to clarity. If all seems very unclear then slow down a bit as you want to really Note what is arising rather than chasing stuff just to gain speed
I'm sure you will see all this for yourself through practicing.
Jeezus Fookin KERist, Sam, shut up about all this watched-pot checking shit and go practice for another seven years, like we all do.
I suggest giving this method a chance. Give it a few months and establish a daily minimum 45 minutes sit.
When you sit make sure you actually note at least one sensation a second. This should not be a problem for most people. In case it's difficult use the words "there is ... " and then label aloud the sensation you are noticing. "There is itching, there is coolness (on nostrils as you breath in), there is preassure (your bum against the cushion/chair), there is hearing, there is doubt, there is unpleasant ...
Noting pace and loudness of the voice are all tools. Try to recognize each day once you sit what kind of terrain is your mind that day. If it's very unclear then use "there is ..." wording as it will calm you down by giving you more time to find a sensation. "There is" will also bring about Curiosity which is good.
If it's hard to practice, there is doubt, disgust, misery, fear, restlessness then practice aloud by really hearing yourself. Find a place where you can speak up a bit. Explain to the people you live with that is a part of this practice.
Sometimes the mind terrain is clear and noting silently works better.
Mind a Terrain changes all the time. This is the point. This is what we are trying to realize. Anicca! It's one of the 3 Characteristics/Perceptions of all experiences.
What is your goal? Can you tell me what you are after. What should this practice do for you?
When you sit make sure you actually note at least one sensation a second. This should not be a problem for most people. In case it's difficult use the words "there is ... " and then label aloud the sensation you are noticing. "There is itching, there is coolness (on nostrils as you breath in), there is preassure (your bum against the cushion/chair), there is hearing, there is doubt, there is unpleasant ...
Noting pace and loudness of the voice are all tools. Try to recognize each day once you sit what kind of terrain is your mind that day. If it's very unclear then use "there is ..." wording as it will calm you down by giving you more time to find a sensation. "There is" will also bring about Curiosity which is good.
If it's hard to practice, there is doubt, disgust, misery, fear, restlessness then practice aloud by really hearing yourself. Find a place where you can speak up a bit. Explain to the people you live with that is a part of this practice.
Sometimes the mind terrain is clear and noting silently works better.
Mind a Terrain changes all the time. This is the point. This is what we are trying to realize. Anicca! It's one of the 3 Characteristics/Perceptions of all experiences.
What is your goal? Can you tell me what you are after. What should this practice do for you?
Papa Che Dusko:
I suggest giving this method a chance. Give it a few months and establish a daily minimum 45 minutes sit.
When you sit make sure you actually note at least one sensation a second. This should not be a problem for most people. In case it's difficult use the words "there is ... " and then label aloud the sensation you are noticing. "There is itching, there is coolness (on nostrils as you breath in), there is preassure (your bum against the cushion/chair), there is hearing, there is doubt, there is unpleasant ...
Noting pace and loudness of the voice are all tools. Try to recognize each day once you sit what kind of terrain is your mind that day. If it's very unclear then use "there is ..." wording as it will calm you down by giving you more time to find a sensation. "There is" will also bring about Curiosity which is good.
If it's hard to practice, there is doubt, disgust, misery, fear, restlessness then practice aloud by really hearing yourself. Find a place where you can speak up a bit. Explain to the people you live with that is a part of this practice.
Sometimes the mind terrain is clear and noting silently works better.
Mind a Terrain changes all the time. This is the point. This is what we are trying to realize. Anicca! It's one of the 3 Characteristics/Perceptions of all experiences.
What is your goal? Can you tell me what you are after. What should this practice do for you?
When you sit make sure you actually note at least one sensation a second. This should not be a problem for most people. In case it's difficult use the words "there is ... " and then label aloud the sensation you are noticing. "There is itching, there is coolness (on nostrils as you breath in), there is preassure (your bum against the cushion/chair), there is hearing, there is doubt, there is unpleasant ...
Noting pace and loudness of the voice are all tools. Try to recognize each day once you sit what kind of terrain is your mind that day. If it's very unclear then use "there is ..." wording as it will calm you down by giving you more time to find a sensation. "There is" will also bring about Curiosity which is good.
If it's hard to practice, there is doubt, disgust, misery, fear, restlessness then practice aloud by really hearing yourself. Find a place where you can speak up a bit. Explain to the people you live with that is a part of this practice.
Sometimes the mind terrain is clear and noting silently works better.
Mind a Terrain changes all the time. This is the point. This is what we are trying to realize. Anicca! It's one of the 3 Characteristics/Perceptions of all experiences.
What is your goal? Can you tell me what you are after. What should this practice do for you?
Thank you! The goal is to have meditation produce insight - after meeting with Daniel he said noting at a high rate would automatically put me on the path, So the practice should get me into the Mind & Body stage and then A & P.
My goal was always (since 2008), even before I found Buddhism, cessation of suffering. It still is. I know this entails Awakening/Enlightenment but my focus and motivation is cessation of suffering.
Also Im hardly doing Noting so "intently" as many here on this forum (and Im sure elsewere) do MUCH more intently noting than I EVER did or will do
I am trying to feel the change taking place. Insights might arise strong or just subtle. In case of subtle insight you might simple feel being in the different stage not even noticing any WOW feel about the previous stage
So my suggestion would be to only be interested in what is right now happening in this moment and do that for the duration of 45 minutes minimum once a day. This is a very good way forward. Then feel how the stages unfold and how the need for sitting looks like. At times you wil feel to sit more and at times you will feel once a day for 45 minutes is all you can do without forcing it too much. The goal here is to have consistent daily noting practice for at least 45 minutes and not to force too much and then you give up
Im suggesting Noting Aloud to keep you firmly locked in the Now-ness so you dont waste time in scenario spinning thoughts and feelings of doubt etc ... This is only for the sitting practice. In off-cushion life you can relax more and not stress about practice too much but when you sit then really do sit and do the noting with a pace thats adjusted to the terrai your mind is in.
I always start by saying my intention first;
"I will now practice freestyle noting aloud as thought by my teacher Kenneth Folk and I will do that for 45 minutes to the best of my ability for the sake of attaining to full awakening for the benefit of myself and all other beings" then I start slowly by using the "There is ... itching, there is ..." and then feel the terrain my mind is in at that moment and adjust the noting pace and volume of the voice accordingly. This is simply not to get into fast noting while all is very unclear just for the sake (desire) of noting fast
Ingram suggests 1 to 10 sensations per second meaning 1 sensation per second is also fine what you dont want is wasting too much of your sitting time on hindrances, thinking about the practice , having doubt which will bring about restlessness etc ...
Do know that Mind and Body usually feels good and Cause and Effect is also not that bad but The 3 Characterisitcs can be very unpleasant as there might come agony from body jerks, body stiffness, body pains which can lead to unpleasant feelings and reactivity. Such negative stages need lots of Acceptance and Faith in this Path and keep on with daily Noting practice to get through them. We dont want to cling to any stage and we dont want to push away any stage. Acceptance and matter of fact noting will help in any case.
For exampke Im now in a stage thats called The 3 Characteristics and I feel like shit I have had thoughts of giving up for the last two days but I know better and I keep sitting daily knowing that these stages are also subject to Anicca. So I keep sitting and noting without laps in mindfulness. This ought to result in stage called Arising and Passing Away and so on journey goes.
Also
Im hardly doing Noting so "intently" as many here on this forum (and Im sure elsewere) do MUCH more intently noting than I EVER did or will do I am trying to feel the change taking place. Insights might arise strong or just subtle. In case of subtle insight you might simple feel being in the different stage not even noticing any WOW feel about the previous stage
So my suggestion would be to only be interested in what is right now happening in this moment and do that for the duration of 45 minutes minimum once a day. This is a very good way forward. Then feel how the stages unfold and how the need for sitting looks like. At times you wil feel to sit more and at times you will feel once a day for 45 minutes is all you can do without forcing it too much. The goal here is to have consistent daily noting practice for at least 45 minutes and not to force too much and then you give up
Im suggesting Noting Aloud to keep you firmly locked in the Now-ness so you dont waste time in scenario spinning thoughts and feelings of doubt etc ... This is only for the sitting practice. In off-cushion life you can relax more and not stress about practice too much but when you sit then really do sit and do the noting with a pace thats adjusted to the terrai your mind is in.
I always start by saying my intention first;
"I will now practice freestyle noting aloud as thought by my teacher Kenneth Folk and I will do that for 45 minutes to the best of my ability for the sake of attaining to full awakening for the benefit of myself and all other beings" then I start slowly by using the "There is ... itching, there is ..." and then feel the terrain my mind is in at that moment and adjust the noting pace and volume of the voice accordingly. This is simply not to get into fast noting while all is very unclear just for the sake (desire) of noting fast
Ingram suggests 1 to 10 sensations per second meaning 1 sensation per second is also fine
what you dont want is wasting too much of your sitting time on hindrances, thinking about the practice , having doubt which will bring about restlessness etc ... Do know that Mind and Body usually feels good and Cause and Effect is also not that bad but The 3 Characterisitcs can be very unpleasant as there might come agony from body jerks, body stiffness, body pains which can lead to unpleasant feelings and reactivity. Such negative stages need lots of Acceptance and Faith in this Path and keep on with daily Noting practice to get through them. We dont want to cling to any stage and we dont want to push away any stage. Acceptance and matter of fact noting will help in any case.
For exampke Im now in a stage thats called The 3 Characteristics and I feel like shit
I have had thoughts of giving up for the last two days but I know better and I keep sitting daily knowing that these stages are also subject to Anicca. So I keep sitting and noting without laps in mindfulness. This ought to result in stage called Arising and Passing Away and so on journey goes.
Chris Marti:
<* No, Papa Che, it's not Kenneth Folk>
Oh
in that case I might PM you also at some stage
Chris Marti:
Chris? How do I get started if I wanted to go back to Vipassana?
Hi, Sam.
If I were you I'd find a vipassana teacher and start there. It could be someone you can meet with face to face (my preference) or it could be someone you meet online using Skype or Zoom (my second choice). If you want a recommendation for someone who can meet with you online I can do that, so if you're interested please private message me here on DhO*.
Otherwise, you can pick up two books I can very much recommend, and read them thoroughly:
1. Mastering the Core Teachings of the Buddha, 2nd Edition, by Daniel Ingram
2. Seeing that Frees, by Rob Burbea
<* No, Papa Che, it's not Kenneth Folk>
So, that's the way I'll proceed then. Thanks. I do need that recomendation of a teacher that I can meet with online but I have no idea of how to private message you
. I have Daniel's book on KIndle and I'll get the other one.Thanks so much!
So, that's the way I'll proceed then. Thanks. I do need that recomendation of a teacher that I can meet with online but I have no idea of how to private message you . I have Daniel's book on KIndle and I'll get the other one.
. I have Daniel's book on KIndle and I'll get the other one.Same, you can message me in DhO by using the Message" function. Open and view the file attached to this post.
Chris Marti:
So, that's the way I'll proceed then. Thanks. I do need that recomendation of a teacher that I can meet with online but I have no idea of how to private message you . I have Daniel's book on KIndle and I'll get the other one.
. I have Daniel's book on KIndle and I'll get the other one.Same, you can message me in DhO by using the Message" function. Open and view the file attached to this post.
Sam Gentile:
7 years never missed a day. So the consistency is there. Have upped the time from 20 minutes to an hour. Just got to get to more retreats.
You don't want to be a greedy wannabe Bodhisttva, amigo.
Listen to your Rinpoche, ease up on yourself, and cultivate metta for the next seven eons.Welcome to this sangha, my Sam of the Nations. Check out the retreat journal of Smiling Stone, and maybe even drop in on his thread and disturb him at his meditation--- he took the bodhisattva vow LAST LIFE and still doesn't have shit to show for it.
https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/19545531
Sam Gentile:
Hi Everyone,
I am new here. I feel like I don't belong because I have none of the attaintments but I am here because I could use ssome help. I have been meditating for almost 7 years vipassna/shamatha style and my major issue is that nothing has happened. I know I am not supposed to expect anything but 7 years? I havve had no moments of insight nor the supposed byproducts like clam, stress reduction, bliss,etc. I started meditating with IMS and vippasana and a few years ago switched to Tibetan with my teacher Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche, under which I am studying the Bardo of Death.
I just upped my meditation tme to one hour. I have trouble accepting the present moment so I feel I manipulate my meditation experience because it is not the experience I expect or want. I have a hard time sensing the breath. It is really faint so I maniplulate it slightly to really feel it at the abdominal area.I am now used Sam Harris super meditation app Waking Up, which has me asking the right questions like "who is thinking that thought?" Of course I don't come with anyone or a self but I am not sure I am really experiencing that understanding physically. I was so inspired reading DanielIngram's book. I would like to achieve A&P. Does anyone have any tips for me, teachers, books, or retreats? Any help would be appreciated.
Sam
I am new here. I feel like I don't belong because I have none of the attaintments but I am here because I could use ssome help. I have been meditating for almost 7 years vipassna/shamatha style and my major issue is that nothing has happened. I know I am not supposed to expect anything but 7 years? I havve had no moments of insight nor the supposed byproducts like clam, stress reduction, bliss,etc. I started meditating with IMS and vippasana and a few years ago switched to Tibetan with my teacher Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche, under which I am studying the Bardo of Death.
I just upped my meditation tme to one hour. I have trouble accepting the present moment so I feel I manipulate my meditation experience because it is not the experience I expect or want. I have a hard time sensing the breath. It is really faint so I maniplulate it slightly to really feel it at the abdominal area.I am now used Sam Harris super meditation app Waking Up, which has me asking the right questions like "who is thinking that thought?" Of course I don't come with anyone or a self but I am not sure I am really experiencing that understanding physically. I was so inspired reading DanielIngram's book. I would like to achieve A&P. Does anyone have any tips for me, teachers, books, or retreats? Any help would be appreciated.
Sam
Hi Sam! The amount of years, the amount of time per sit, and the quality of practice are all important factors.
If you have been doing mostly short sits, it's possible that you aren't getting out of your comfort zone. Your recent increase to an hour a day might help. In the future, you can try going on retreat too. It usually takes about 30 minutes to 45 minutes for the mind to get to it's "cutting edge" and then the last 15 minutes of sitting is where new stuff gets discovered. It's fairly common for people to sit for 20 minutes a day and --- while it can be good for general well being -- it doesn't necessarily provide deeper insights into the way the mind works.
The quality of practice is important, too. You need to find something that you really want to explore and work on during your sits. Simply sitting down and not doing anything in particular won't lead to progress... otherwise, everyone that sits on a bus or train to go to work would be enlightened.
And chickens would be the most enlightened beings of all! So you have to find some aspect of your mind that you want to investigate and improve. When I got started, I was most interested in emotional reactions and tibetian tantra was the most interesting thing. I think this stuff was what got me hooked: http://arobuddhism.org/articles/embracing-emotions-as-the-path.html And so I spent my sitting practice investigating how confused emotions clouded my mind, but also how reactions could be transformed into their enlightened/empowered aspect:
A feeling of insignificance could be transformed to acceptance/equanmity
Fear could be transformed into clarity
Loneliness could be transformed into compassion
Anxiety could be transformed into confidence
Depression could be transformed into intelligence
This idea was really exciting to me. By sitting with the first emotion, it could be transformed into the better state if I didn't run away from it or try to avoid it. Cool! Now I had a sitting practice with a purpose and I could use my negative mindstates like weights in a gym to get stronger.
So finding an exciting practice, something that really calls out to you, is really important.
What sort of practices have you explored? What do you want to try? What aspect of your mind/psychology do you want to work on?
I can't get it to work. Uner Recieient it wants your email address, not your name which I have tried.
EDIT: Sam, I just sent you a message. You were not easy to find, however
Chris Marti:
I can't get it to work. Uner Recieient it wants your email address, not your name which I have tried.
EDIT: Sam, I just sent you a message. You were not easy to find, however
shargrol:
Sam Gentile:
Hi Everyone,
I am new here. I feel like I don't belong because I have none of the attaintments but I am here because I could use ssome help. I have been meditating for almost 7 years vipassna/shamatha style and my major issue is that nothing has happened. I know I am not supposed to expect anything but 7 years? I havve had no moments of insight nor the supposed byproducts like clam, stress reduction, bliss,etc. I started meditating with IMS and vippasana and a few years ago switched to Tibetan with my teacher Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche, under which I am studying the Bardo of Death.
I just upped my meditation tme to one hour. I have trouble accepting the present moment so I feel I manipulate my meditation experience because it is not the experience I expect or want. I have a hard time sensing the breath. It is really faint so I maniplulate it slightly to really feel it at the abdominal area.I am now used Sam Harris super meditation app Waking Up, which has me asking the right questions like "who is thinking that thought?" Of course I don't come with anyone or a self but I am not sure I am really experiencing that understanding physically. I was so inspired reading DanielIngram's book. I would like to achieve A&P. Does anyone have any tips for me, teachers, books, or retreats? Any help would be appreciated.
Sam
I am new here. I feel like I don't belong because I have none of the attaintments but I am here because I could use ssome help. I have been meditating for almost 7 years vipassna/shamatha style and my major issue is that nothing has happened. I know I am not supposed to expect anything but 7 years? I havve had no moments of insight nor the supposed byproducts like clam, stress reduction, bliss,etc. I started meditating with IMS and vippasana and a few years ago switched to Tibetan with my teacher Yongey Mingyur Rinpoche, under which I am studying the Bardo of Death.
I just upped my meditation tme to one hour. I have trouble accepting the present moment so I feel I manipulate my meditation experience because it is not the experience I expect or want. I have a hard time sensing the breath. It is really faint so I maniplulate it slightly to really feel it at the abdominal area.I am now used Sam Harris super meditation app Waking Up, which has me asking the right questions like "who is thinking that thought?" Of course I don't come with anyone or a self but I am not sure I am really experiencing that understanding physically. I was so inspired reading DanielIngram's book. I would like to achieve A&P. Does anyone have any tips for me, teachers, books, or retreats? Any help would be appreciated.
Sam
Hi Sam! The amount of years, the amount of time per sit, and the quality of practice are all important factors.
If you have been doing mostly short sits, it's possible that you aren't getting out of your comfort zone. Your recent increase to an hour a day might help. In the future, you can try going on retreat too. It usually takes about 30 minutes to 45 minutes for the mind to get to it's "cutting edge" and then the last 15 minutes of sitting is where new stuff gets discovered. It's fairly common for people to sit for 20 minutes a day and --- while it can be good for general well being -- it doesn't necessarily provide deeper insights into the way the mind works.
The quality of practice is important, too. You need to find something that you really want to explore and work on during your sits. Simply sitting down and not doing anything in particular won't lead to progress... otherwise, everyone that sits on a bus or train to go to work would be enlightened.
And chickens would be the most enlightened beings of all! So you have to find some aspect of your mind that you want to investigate and improve. When I got started, I was most interested in emotional reactions and tibetian tantra was the most interesting thing. I think this stuff was what got me hooked: http://arobuddhism.org/articles/embracing-emotions-as-the-path.html And so I spent my sitting practice investigating how confused emotions clouded my mind, but also how reactions could be transformed into their enlightened/empowered aspect:
A feeling of insignificance could be transformed to acceptance/equanmity
Fear could be transformed into clarity
Loneliness could be transformed into compassion
Anxiety could be transformed into confidence
Depression could be transformed into intelligence
This idea was really exciting to me. By sitting with the first emotion, it could be transformed into the better state if I didn't run away from it or try to avoid it. Cool! Now I had a sitting practice with a purpose and I could use my negative mindstates like weights in a gym to get stronger.
So finding an exciting practice, something that really calls out to you, is really important.
What sort of practices have you explored? What do you want to try? What aspect of your mind/psychology do you want to work on?
The best practice is dull and boring. Just sit. Try not to note anything. Anything else is tail-chasing. Navel-gazing more better.
terry
tao te ching, trans mitchell
14.
Look, and it can't be seen.
Listen, and it can't be heard.
Reach, and it can't be grasped.
Above, it isn't bright.
Below, it isn't dark.
Seamless, unnamable,
it returns to the realm of nothing.
Form that includes all forms,
image without an image,
subtle, beyond all conception.
Approach it and there is no beginning;
follow it and there is no end.
You can't know it, but you can be it,
at ease in your own life.
Just realize where you come from:
this is the essence of wisdom.
"The best practice is dull and boring. Just sit. Try not to note anything. Anything else is tail-chasing. Navel-gazing more better.
terry"
Terry, maybe you missed the fact that Sam is struggling with Doubt and Giving Up and you adding this option to his already doubtfull stance is not helping Some say "just sit", other say "just note", other say "just chant", others say "just Jhana", others say "just believe" others say ...
Doubt is a serious hindrance and adding more options will just create more doubt for Sam. He decided to practice Noting and seems to be liking it. Let him have a go at it for a few mnths and see for himself if its of benefit or not.
I suggest we give Sam space and let him fly on his own with pair of wings. No reason attaching extra wings or chopping off the wings he just attached.
Noting can be boring and can be dull and can be very agonising and can be very pleasant and can be disorentating and energetic and insightful ... and liberating.
I hope not to start some useless debate in his thread here let him focus on the now-ness of his experience unfolding.
May you be well and happy.
terry"
Terry, maybe you missed the fact that Sam is struggling with Doubt and Giving Up and you adding this option to his already doubtfull stance is not helping
Some say "just sit", other say "just note", other say "just chant", others say "just Jhana", others say "just believe" others say ...Doubt is a serious hindrance and adding more options will just create more doubt for Sam. He decided to practice Noting and seems to be liking it. Let him have a go at it for a few mnths and see for himself if its of benefit or not.
I suggest we give Sam space and let him fly on his own with pair of wings. No reason attaching extra wings or chopping off the wings he just attached.
Noting can be boring and can be dull and can be very agonising and can be very pleasant and can be disorentating and energetic and insightful ... and liberating.
I hope not to start some useless debate in his thread here
let him focus on the now-ness of his experience unfolding.May you be well and happy.
Papa Che Dusko:
"The best practice is dull and boring. Just sit. Try not to note anything. Anything else is tail-chasing. Navel-gazing more better.
terry"
Terry, maybe you missed the fact that Sam is struggling with Doubt and Giving Up and you adding this option to his already doubtfull stance is not helping Some say "just sit", other say "just note", other say "just chant", others say "just Jhana", others say "just believe" others say ...
Doubt is a serious hindrance and adding more options will just create more doubt for Sam. He decided to practice Noting and seems to be liking it. Let him have a go at it for a few mnths and see for himself if its of benefit or not.
I suggest we give Sam space and let him fly on his own with pair of wings. No reason attaching extra wings or chopping off the wings he just attached.
Noting can be boring and can be dull and can be very agonising and can be very pleasant and can be disorentating and energetic and insightful ... and liberating.
I hope not to start some useless debate in his thread here let him focus on the now-ness of his experience unfolding.
May you be well and happy.
terry"
Terry, maybe you missed the fact that Sam is struggling with Doubt and Giving Up and you adding this option to his already doubtfull stance is not helping
Some say "just sit", other say "just note", other say "just chant", others say "just Jhana", others say "just believe" others say ...Doubt is a serious hindrance and adding more options will just create more doubt for Sam. He decided to practice Noting and seems to be liking it. Let him have a go at it for a few mnths and see for himself if its of benefit or not.
I suggest we give Sam space and let him fly on his own with pair of wings. No reason attaching extra wings or chopping off the wings he just attached.
Noting can be boring and can be dull and can be very agonising and can be very pleasant and can be disorentating and energetic and insightful ... and liberating.
I hope not to start some useless debate in his thread here
let him focus on the now-ness of his experience unfolding.May you be well and happy.
Papa Che Dusko:
"The best practice is dull and boring. Just sit. Try not to note anything. Anything else is tail-chasing. Navel-gazing more better.
terry"
Terry, maybe you missed the fact that Sam is struggling with Doubt and Giving Up and you adding this option to his already doubtfull stance is not helping Some say "just sit", other say "just note", other say "just chant", others say "just Jhana", others say "just believe" others say ...
Doubt is a serious hindrance and adding more options will just create more doubt for Sam. He decided to practice Noting and seems to be liking it. Let him have a go at it for a few mnths and see for himself if its of benefit or not.
I suggest we give Sam space and let him fly on his own with pair of wings. No reason attaching extra wings or chopping off the wings he just attached.
Noting can be boring and can be dull and can be very agonising and can be very pleasant and can be disorentating and energetic and insightful ... and liberating.
I hope not to start some useless debate in his thread here let him focus on the now-ness of his experience unfolding.
May you be well and happy.
terry"
Terry, maybe you missed the fact that Sam is struggling with Doubt and Giving Up and you adding this option to his already doubtfull stance is not helping
Some say "just sit", other say "just note", other say "just chant", others say "just Jhana", others say "just believe" others say ...Doubt is a serious hindrance and adding more options will just create more doubt for Sam. He decided to practice Noting and seems to be liking it. Let him have a go at it for a few mnths and see for himself if its of benefit or not.
I suggest we give Sam space and let him fly on his own with pair of wings. No reason attaching extra wings or chopping off the wings he just attached.
Noting can be boring and can be dull and can be very agonising and can be very pleasant and can be disorentating and energetic and insightful ... and liberating.
I hope not to start some useless debate in his thread here
let him focus on the now-ness of his experience unfolding.May you be well and happy.
Sam should quit struggling. That's my advice. He suffers from the futility of busily pursuing what only runs from the pursuer. If he would stop all this struggle, what he wants would come to him. Like a horse which runs if chased but really wants to be protected and cared for.
If you read "nothing" for noting I could agree. One could say they are in essence the same, noting canceling notes. Or, not. We understand these things differently, uncle. You to your faith and I to mine, as the koran says.
t
Please accept my sincere apology Terry as you are senoir to me in many ways Im sure. It was not my place. Be well friend.
terry:
Papa Che Dusko:
"The best practice is dull and boring. Just sit. Try not to note anything. Anything else is tail-chasing. Navel-gazing more better.
terry"
Terry, maybe you missed the fact that Sam is struggling with Doubt and Giving Up and you adding this option to his already doubtfull stance is not helping Some say "just sit", other say "just note", other say "just chant", others say "just Jhana", others say "just believe" others say ...
Doubt is a serious hindrance and adding more options will just create more doubt for Sam. He decided to practice Noting and seems to be liking it. Let him have a go at it for a few mnths and see for himself if its of benefit or not.
I suggest we give Sam space and let him fly on his own with pair of wings. No reason attaching extra wings or chopping off the wings he just attached.
Noting can be boring and can be dull and can be very agonising and can be very pleasant and can be disorentating and energetic and insightful ... and liberating.
I hope not to start some useless debate in his thread here let him focus on the now-ness of his experience unfolding.
May you be well and happy.
terry"
Terry, maybe you missed the fact that Sam is struggling with Doubt and Giving Up and you adding this option to his already doubtfull stance is not helping
Some say "just sit", other say "just note", other say "just chant", others say "just Jhana", others say "just believe" others say ...Doubt is a serious hindrance and adding more options will just create more doubt for Sam. He decided to practice Noting and seems to be liking it. Let him have a go at it for a few mnths and see for himself if its of benefit or not.
I suggest we give Sam space and let him fly on his own with pair of wings. No reason attaching extra wings or chopping off the wings he just attached.
Noting can be boring and can be dull and can be very agonising and can be very pleasant and can be disorentating and energetic and insightful ... and liberating.
I hope not to start some useless debate in his thread here
let him focus on the now-ness of his experience unfolding.May you be well and happy.
Sam should quit struggling. That's my advice. He suffers from the futility of busily pursuing what only runs from the pursuer. If he would stop all this struggle, what he wants would come to him. Like a horse which runs if chased but really wants to be protected and cared for.
If you read "nothing" for noting I could agree. One could say they are in essence the same, noting canceling notes. Or, not. We understand these things differently, uncle. You to your faith and I to mine, as the koran says.
t
Sam Gentile, grabbing this swelling wave of apologies, i would likie you to know how sorry i am for my verbal behavior earlier on your practice log. I risked that greatest sin, Doing Harm, and only your own no-bullshit response and sense oif the strength of the sangha kept me from possibly afflicting you with my idiocy. I apologize, humbly, and beg your forgiveness.
Tim Farrington:
terry:
Papa Che Dusko:
"The best practice is dull and boring. Just sit. Try not to note anything. Anything else is tail-chasing. Navel-gazing more better.
terry"
Terry, maybe you missed the fact that Sam is struggling with Doubt and Giving Up and you adding this option to his already doubtfull stance is not helping Some say "just sit", other say "just note", other say "just chant", others say "just Jhana", others say "just believe" others say ...
Doubt is a serious hindrance and adding more options will just create more doubt for Sam. He decided to practice Noting and seems to be liking it. Let him have a go at it for a few mnths and see for himself if its of benefit or not.
I suggest we give Sam space and let him fly on his own with pair of wings. No reason attaching extra wings or chopping off the wings he just attached.
Noting can be boring and can be dull and can be very agonising and can be very pleasant and can be disorentating and energetic and insightful ... and liberating.
I hope not to start some useless debate in his thread here let him focus on the now-ness of his experience unfolding.
May you be well and happy.
terry"
Terry, maybe you missed the fact that Sam is struggling with Doubt and Giving Up and you adding this option to his already doubtfull stance is not helping
Some say "just sit", other say "just note", other say "just chant", others say "just Jhana", others say "just believe" others say ...Doubt is a serious hindrance and adding more options will just create more doubt for Sam. He decided to practice Noting and seems to be liking it. Let him have a go at it for a few mnths and see for himself if its of benefit or not.
I suggest we give Sam space and let him fly on his own with pair of wings. No reason attaching extra wings or chopping off the wings he just attached.
Noting can be boring and can be dull and can be very agonising and can be very pleasant and can be disorentating and energetic and insightful ... and liberating.
I hope not to start some useless debate in his thread here
let him focus on the now-ness of his experience unfolding.May you be well and happy.
Sam should quit struggling. That's my advice. He suffers from the futility of busily pursuing what only runs from the pursuer. If he would stop all this struggle, what he wants would come to him. Like a horse which runs if chased but really wants to be protected and cared for.
If you read "nothing" for noting I could agree. One could say they are in essence the same, noting canceling notes. Or, not. We understand these things differently, uncle. You to your faith and I to mine, as the koran says.
t
Sam Gentile, grabbing this swelling wave of apologies, i would likie you to know how sorry i am for my verbal behavior earlier on your practice log. I risked that greatest sin, Doing Harm, and only your own no-bullshit response and sense oif the strength of the sangha kept me from possibly afflicting you with my idiocy. I apologize, humbly, and beg your forgiveness.
You're all good brother
terry:
Papa Che Dusko:
"The best practice is dull and boring. Just sit. Try not to note anything. Anything else is tail-chasing. Navel-gazing more better.
terry"
Terry, maybe you missed the fact that Sam is struggling with Doubt and Giving Up and you adding this option to his already doubtfull stance is not helping Some say "just sit", other say "just note", other say "just chant", others say "just Jhana", others say "just believe" others say ...
Doubt is a serious hindrance and adding more options will just create more doubt for Sam. He decided to practice Noting and seems to be liking it. Let him have a go at it for a few mnths and see for himself if its of benefit or not.
I suggest we give Sam space and let him fly on his own with pair of wings. No reason attaching extra wings or chopping off the wings he just attached.
Noting can be boring and can be dull and can be very agonising and can be very pleasant and can be disorentating and energetic and insightful ... and liberating.
I hope not to start some useless debate in his thread here let him focus on the now-ness of his experience unfolding.
May you be well and happy.
terry"
Terry, maybe you missed the fact that Sam is struggling with Doubt and Giving Up and you adding this option to his already doubtfull stance is not helping
Some say "just sit", other say "just note", other say "just chant", others say "just Jhana", others say "just believe" others say ...Doubt is a serious hindrance and adding more options will just create more doubt for Sam. He decided to practice Noting and seems to be liking it. Let him have a go at it for a few mnths and see for himself if its of benefit or not.
I suggest we give Sam space and let him fly on his own with pair of wings. No reason attaching extra wings or chopping off the wings he just attached.
Noting can be boring and can be dull and can be very agonising and can be very pleasant and can be disorentating and energetic and insightful ... and liberating.
I hope not to start some useless debate in his thread here
let him focus on the now-ness of his experience unfolding.May you be well and happy.
Sam should quit struggling. That's my advice. He suffers from the futility of busily pursuing what only runs from the pursuer. If he would stop all this struggle, what he wants would come to him. Like a horse which runs if chased but really wants to be protected and cared for.
If you read "nothing" for noting I could agree. One could say they are in essence the same, noting canceling notes. Or, not. We understand these things differently, uncle. You to your faith and I to mine, as the koran says.
t
As far as I am concerned, Papa Che doesn't need to apologize to you. you come in here with mystical quotations that don't help me. Let me make you aware of something. I went and met with Daniel Ingram of my own FREE WILL and after a fantastic meeting, Out Loud Noting in a rapid manner was suggested to me as one of my options. I PICKED this option, Daniel supports it and Papa Che and Brandon have done an amazing job to deal with all my questions and getting my Noting knowledge way up there. Now I am HAPPY with my practice and I have started a practice log. So let it be.
Sam Gentile:
terry:
Papa Che Dusko:
"The best practice is dull and boring. Just sit. Try not to note anything. Anything else is tail-chasing. Navel-gazing more better.
terry"
Terry, maybe you missed the fact that Sam is struggling with Doubt and Giving Up and you adding this option to his already doubtfull stance is not helping Some say "just sit", other say "just note", other say "just chant", others say "just Jhana", others say "just believe" others say ...
Doubt is a serious hindrance and adding more options will just create more doubt for Sam. He decided to practice Noting and seems to be liking it. Let him have a go at it for a few mnths and see for himself if its of benefit or not.
I suggest we give Sam space and let him fly on his own with pair of wings. No reason attaching extra wings or chopping off the wings he just attached.
Noting can be boring and can be dull and can be very agonising and can be very pleasant and can be disorentating and energetic and insightful ... and liberating.
I hope not to start some useless debate in his thread here let him focus on the now-ness of his experience unfolding.
May you be well and happy.
terry"
Terry, maybe you missed the fact that Sam is struggling with Doubt and Giving Up and you adding this option to his already doubtfull stance is not helping
Some say "just sit", other say "just note", other say "just chant", others say "just Jhana", others say "just believe" others say ...Doubt is a serious hindrance and adding more options will just create more doubt for Sam. He decided to practice Noting and seems to be liking it. Let him have a go at it for a few mnths and see for himself if its of benefit or not.
I suggest we give Sam space and let him fly on his own with pair of wings. No reason attaching extra wings or chopping off the wings he just attached.
Noting can be boring and can be dull and can be very agonising and can be very pleasant and can be disorentating and energetic and insightful ... and liberating.
I hope not to start some useless debate in his thread here
let him focus on the now-ness of his experience unfolding.May you be well and happy.
Sam should quit struggling. That's my advice. He suffers from the futility of busily pursuing what only runs from the pursuer. If he would stop all this struggle, what he wants would come to him. Like a horse which runs if chased but really wants to be protected and cared for.
If you read "nothing" for noting I could agree. One could say they are in essence the same, noting canceling notes. Or, not. We understand these things differently, uncle. You to your faith and I to mine, as the koran says.
t
As far as I am concerned, Papa Che doesn't need to apologize to you. you come in here with mystical quotations that don't help me. Let me make you aware of something. I went and met with Daniel Ingram of my own FREE WILL and after a fantastic meeting, Out Loud Noting in a rapid manner was suggested to me as one of my options. I PICKED this option, Daniel supports it and Papa Che and Brandon have done an amazing job to deal with all my questions and getting my Noting knowledge way up there. Now I am HAPPY with my practice and I have started a practice log. So let it be.
you are right, papa didn't need to apologize...his remarks were not offensive...
and I wouldn't post on anyone's practice log...
your aversion to mystical quotes is noted...if they mean nothing to you consider that someday you might open up to them, and hearing them can do you no harm...
as papa says, be well, brother...I'm glad you are getting the attention you desire, and are happy with your practice...
terry
tao te ching, trans mitchell
33.
Knowing others is intelligence;
knowing yourself is true wisdom.
Mastering others is strength;
mastering yourself is true power.
If you realize that you have enough,
you are truly rich.
If you stay in the center
and embrace death with your whole heart,
you will endure forever.
Chris Marti:
Yes! Sam does have a really excellent opportunity to focus on in his practice -- he can watch his impatience with the same kind of attention you applied to your impatience.
I don't think.
Huzzah!
Go do some metta, Sam!
Kidding you don't have to. I'm teasing because you said you had trouble accessing those happy and pleasant feelings while doing metta. But, now'd be a good time if the pleasant feelings are lingering to ride those out and focus in on them for some metta. Feel the love and gratitude for the pleasant feelings, Sam. haha
Go do some metta, Sam!
Kidding you don't have to. I'm teasing because you said you had trouble accessing those happy and pleasant feelings while doing metta. But, now'd be a good time if the pleasant feelings are lingering to ride those out and focus in on them for some metta. Feel the love and gratitude for the pleasant feelings, Sam. haha
Steph S:
Huzzah!
Go do some metta, Sam!
Kidding you don't have to. I'm teasing because you said you had trouble accessing those happy and pleasant feelings while doing metta. But, now'd be a good time if the pleasant feelings are lingering to ride those out and focus in on them for some metta. Feel the love and gratitude for the pleasant feelings, Sam. haha
Go do some metta, Sam!
Kidding you don't have to. I'm teasing because you said you had trouble accessing those happy and pleasant feelings while doing metta. But, now'd be a good time if the pleasant feelings are lingering to ride those out and focus in on them for some metta. Feel the love and gratitude for the pleasant feelings, Sam. haha
Huh! Guess what I did instead? Go study my Tibetan Bardo of Dying course momemnt of dying ;) If that's not a buzz kill for those happy and pleasent feelings, then I don't know what is
