Which jhana or what it is, where am I ?

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Abhishek Sharma, modified 11 Months ago.

Which jhana or what it is, where am I ?

Posts: 33 Join Date: 7/8/20 Recent Posts
On my earlier post I mentioned about recently experienced A&P since after that I can easily go into tranquility state in no time while meditating. Since after A&P I realised that their is some type of pressure or sensation in between my forehead like some type of energy ball and when I concentrate at that particular spot It started exploding energy waves . As I inhale or exhale the energy or sensations waves increased rapidly and spreading all over my head to my bottom and they are so intense. it's like these waves reacting to my breath , the more I breath while focusing at that ball of energy the more it increases and it's like I'm using some type of fuel from that dense ball of energy and then suddenly  its arises and the feeling of pleasure, joy , happiness, calmness and then into tranquility,equanimity state where all thing all space all sensations become clear and calm , makes my meditation effortless . And it can be maintained for hours.

can anyone explain what is this where am I?
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Not two, not one, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Which jhana or what it is, where am I ?

Posts: 908 Join Date: 7/13/17 Recent Posts
Well, it's pretty hard to diagnose from a brief description, but it sounds like a very intense first Jhana with high grade piti and a good flow state.  Enjoy!  Burn it in, have fun.  Eventually you'll get a bit sick of it and the balance will shift more to the bliss than the energy waves, and mental thought will subside, and then you will be in second jhana. But not for weeks, probably.  

Malcolm
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Abhishek Sharma, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Which jhana or what it is, where am I ?

Posts: 33 Join Date: 7/8/20 Recent Posts
Thanks Malcolm for replying.
can 1st jhana could be this strong and intense , I thought it's second or third jhana haha my bad.
Can you se my previous post because I thought that I had experienced A&P but looking into your facts now I'm confused no it was not. Can you please look into it? 
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Chris Marti, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Which jhana or what it is, where am I ?

Posts: 3930 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Jhanas aren't typically described as energetically "intense." Jhanas are usually described as more chill, calm broad states of rapture, so I'm sorry to contradict my friend with the funny name, but I doubt you're experiencing jhana. What you're getting is more likely to be an energetic state of some sort. but, as Not One, Not Two has said, it's very hard to tell from a short description.
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Abhishek Sharma, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Which jhana or what it is, where am I ?

Posts: 33 Join Date: 7/8/20 Recent Posts
Thanks Chris Mati
I can understand It's hard to tell , but this sensation or feeling of rapture is in my head all day and even while sleeping, it's feel like if I concentrate just little , the whole feeling of rapture will flow all over my body any time while laying on bed too.
Is this related to Kundlini?
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Chris Marti, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Which jhana or what it is, where am I ?

Posts: 3930 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Is this related to Kundlini?

I don't know. Someone else here may be more conversant with kundalini practices than I am. Could be.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Which jhana or what it is, where am I ?

Posts: 1842 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
I find 2nd Jhana to be hot in the body and head and there is very good sensate clarity to it all and noting can be very fast and effortless. This heat can get a bit over the head so to speak so dropping into 3rd Jhana with its chillness and cool over all body skin sensations and very relaxing on the outbtreath is a very fine place to be. 2nd Jhana in the visuals is very sharp in the center but diffused in the periffery and can give a tunnel like feel at times. 3rd is very interesting for me in the visuals with all going murky and the round dark grey cloud developing in the center and then the center of it vanishing and reappearing etc ... and there can be a gery-purplish haze moving around like a smoke or melting lava but hazey looking.


1st Jhana is something I pass through very fast and usually has something to do with pleasant vibrations and warmth in my palms. In visuals its more of a "solid focus" and has calm to it and body just gets solid still and then the image can jerk a few times and even get some pixelated appearance all over or usually in the perifery.

4th Jhana comes after the murk and the image space flattens out into a light colored grey, like smoke of the cigarette but not having appearance of the smoke its just that kind of color. Instead its all just there in one whole image, center-perifery-all panoramic. The eye focus (I do open eyes sits) is VERY diffused and trying to focus sharp will cause eye ball pain as if its straining, so best is to just let go into that diffused focus. All this can get boring to watch at some stage but that too is being part of it This so ... all good. Most of the feeling tone in EQ for me is Neutral to slight unpleasantish or slight pleasantish.

Im yet to map the ear frequency in each Jhana as well as lenght of the in and out breath as I have noticed changes there but was never interested to really investigate all these details. I do know in breath is short and unpleasantish and outbreath very long and pleasant in 3rd Jhana (Dissolution Nana).

Awakening is one thing and Mastering the Paths/States/Stages is another I guess emoticon 
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Chris Marti, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Which jhana or what it is, where am I ?

Posts: 3930 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
 it's like these waves reacting to my breath , the more I breath while focusing at that ball of energy the more it increases and it's like I'm using some type of fuel from that dense ball of energy and then suddenly  its arises and the feeling of pleasure, joy , happiness, calmness and then into tranquility,equanimity state where all thing all space all sensations become clear and calm , makes my meditation effortless . And it can be maintained for hours.

I want to further explain my previous answer - this same thing used to happen to me, years ago, before much of anything else happened related to my vipassana meditation practice. I would have described it in very similar language: energetic, tied to my breath cycle, and causing elation and related "stuff." The effects would indeed last for a long time. It was not jhana. Having had both experiences now, I can say so with absolute certainty. Sorry today, however, I'm not sure what to call this experience you're having, and that I had years ago, however.
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Abhishek Sharma, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Which jhana or what it is, where am I ?

Posts: 33 Join Date: 7/8/20 Recent Posts
Chris Marti:
 it's like these waves reacting to my breath , the more I breath while focusing at that ball of energy the more it increases and it's like I'm using some type of fuel from that dense ball of energy and then suddenly  its arises and the feeling of pleasure, joy , happiness, calmness and then into tranquility,equanimity state where all thing all space all sensations become clear and calm , makes my meditation effortless . And it can be maintained for hours.

I want to further explain my previous answer - this same thing used to happen to me, years ago, before much of anything else happened related to my vipassana meditation practice. I would have described it in very similar language: energetic, tied to my breath cycle, and causing elation and related "stuff." The effects would indeed last for a long time. It was not jhana. Having had both experiences now, I can say so with absolute certainty. Sorry today, however, I'm not sure what to call this experience you're having, and that I had years ago, however.

Thank you chris for clearing this thing.
any advice what i should do from at this point to move further ..
Martin, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Which jhana or what it is, where am I ?

Posts: 294 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
I'm curious what difference it makes what something is called in this case? I can see the advantage of labeling nanas because they can be considered to be map locations, and that may be useful for figuring out what to do and what to expect.
Does the labeling of concentration states provide useful information in the same way?
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Abhishek Sharma, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Which jhana or what it is, where am I ?

Posts: 33 Join Date: 7/8/20 Recent Posts
Martin:
I'm curious what difference it makes what something is called in this case? I can see the advantage of labeling nanas because they can be considered to be map locations, and that may be useful for figuring out what to do and what to expect.
Does the labeling of concentration states provide useful information in the same way?

Yes you're right.
Could you figure it out. That would be a huge help
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Not two, not one, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Which jhana or what it is, where am I ?

Posts: 908 Join Date: 7/13/17 Recent Posts
Well, as I see it, piti is jhana factor and comes in various strengths, depending.  So you can definitely have piti without jhana, including quite intense piti, up to Grade V.  But there is nothing to stop piti being very strong within jhana. Nothing in the suttas. Nothing in Right Concentration. Don't know about Pau Auk Sayadaw's stuff - haven't studied that.

So does first Jhana also required passadhi (tranquility)? I don't believe so, and have not seen this in canonical sources. It is not a jhana factor. Of course, there is no reason that first jhana could not come with passadhi, depending on the practices being done, but I don't think it essential - and nor do the suttas.

So in my view, first jhana doesn't have to be mild. Unification of concentration on an object, mainteance of a flow state, piti widespread and predominant, overtones of sukkha - these cover a wide range of flavours.

But hey your mileage may vary!  Personally, I find massive variation within each rupa jhana, although all those variations remain consistent with the sutta descriptions.

So again, respectfully, passadhi is not a first jhana factor.

emoticon
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Abhishek Sharma, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Which jhana or what it is, where am I ?

Posts: 33 Join Date: 7/8/20 Recent Posts
Thanks 
I don't have much knowledge but I can understand 
as English is my second language that's why couldn't able to express myself fully hehe
but yes now I can able to go into this state whenever I want . Whenever I sit I first focus on the contraction and expansion of my abdomen area and at the same time I breath in such a way that feels like my breathing hitting that sensitive part of my forehand feels like activating  ajna chakra . After some time when so much piti build up , specially over my eyes, head , face like so tense tight, and I also feel little vibration in my body specially lower body part , like my body is shivering from cold. And then all these shivering , piti, sensation come unite together and then this rapture , orgasmic sensation, following all over my body and Then I come to an state where I can sustain this state without any effort and I feels like my concentration power increases ten fold and this silent and calmness all over the body and also able to see that black space little wider while eyes closed and some times I saw blueish smoke in that black space.

and what you think in which nanas i perfectly fit.


right now I'm doing 2 hours in the morning , 1 hour in the afternoon and 1 hour at night and following D. Ingram MCTB2 and Waking up app by sam harris
Martin, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Which jhana or what it is, where am I ?

Posts: 294 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
Does this line up with what you are experiencing?

"Once you have arrived at the state where the pīti and the sukha are sustained, the suttas say: “One drenches, steeps, saturates, and suffuses one’s body with this rapture and happiness born of seclusion, so that there is no part of one’s entire body which is not suffused by this rapture and happiness.” When you’re initially in the first jhāna, the pīti energy may seem to run up the spine and involve the back of the body, upper torso, and head more than anyplace else. Or maybe it’s just in the upper torso and head. Either of these is fine. Actually, when you are first learning, just get the pīti-sukha going and sustained; it doesn’t matter where it’s located or that it’s not yet throughout the body. Spreading it throughout the whole body is a more advanced practice. The pīti-sukha will probably feel like it’s centered more in the area of the face. Sometimes it’s most prevalent in the head, sometimes in the spine, but in general, it’s principally in the upper body area around the face. Then when you get skilled enough to stabilize the first jhāna, you’ll find that it is possible to move the energy into the arms and legs so that your whole body is filled with it."

Brasington, Leigh. Right Concentration (pp. 40-41). Shambhala. Kindle Edition.
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Abhishek Sharma, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Which jhana or what it is, where am I ?

Posts: 33 Join Date: 7/8/20 Recent Posts
Thank you so much for clearing things up
Martin, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Which jhana or what it is, where am I ?

Posts: 294 Join Date: 4/25/20 Recent Posts
You are welcome, Abhishek.

I actually wasn't really trying to clear things up. I was just wondering if that kind of description seems to you to be applicable to what you are experiencing. If it is, you might consider either reading that book or watching one of Braisinton's videos to find out more about what are sometimes called the "sutta jhanas," which are different from the jhanas described in the later commentaries. It seems to me that, when people say "jhana" they can mean a lot of different things. Braisinton is good at describing the sutta jhanas and provides kind of an instruction manual for moving between them. 
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Abhishek Sharma, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Which jhana or what it is, where am I ?

Posts: 33 Join Date: 7/8/20 Recent Posts
Yes gradually I'm gaining knowledge,I'll look onto these things too. Thanks

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