Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

es pro, modified 11 Months ago.

Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Hi again,
yeahh so I had a spiritual awakening from 2018-2020. INTENSE, every day processing pain/old karma, delving into newfound self love and bliss and enlightenment, ego dissolution, blazing thru each chakra and healing it etc.... and then when covid started I went crazy and lost balance of my mind, and before I knew it my radiant heart was empty and I hold absolutely no equanimity or joy or any of those good qualities. I watch videos and look at old messages of my past self, in awe of the joy she felt and how grounded and peaceful she was. 
as you know if you have read my threads I accidentally caused "ego death" or shattered my psyche, something that usually requires psychedelics, so I have been in a bad trip for 5 months now. I think this has a huge thing to do with the poor state I am in.
I am waiting, every second, for that moment of pure love/equanimity to enter, even in my sleep I dream of it, I dream of waking up enlightened, and naturally it never comes. It came a few times in April when o was least expecting it but it didn't stick- and now I am desperate for it, thus pushing it away.
i don't really know what I can do. My therapist insists I can work my way out of this. But I wonder how can you work your way into a moment of pure surrender?

and you might want to say it's a matter of patience but time has only caused me to feel WORSE
Tim Farrington, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who gets awakened and then falls to absolute dust?

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A. DIetrich Ringle, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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Go back and delete some old posts. That might help for the long term. Long term.
Tim Farrington, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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A. DIetrich Ringle:
Go back and delete some old posts. That might help for the long term. Long term.

why don't you take you own advice?
A. DIetrich Ringle, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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I'm not a moderator
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Ni Nurta, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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es pro:
I am waiting, every second, for that moment of pure love/equanimity to enter, even in my sleep I dream of it, I dream of waking up enlightened, and naturally it never comes. It came a few times in April when o was least expecting it but it didn't stick- and now I am desperate for it, thus pushing it away.
i don't really know what I can do. My therapist insists I can work my way out of this. But I wonder how can you work your way into a moment of pure surrender?
That is the book example of clinging leading to dukkha.
Your mind is restructuring and it can and will provide something when it is done. However by clinging to things which gave you pleasure in the past like love and surrender you are stealing from yourself the opportunity to experience these new things.

I never really experienced any love which I could tell was real and I pretty much have no idea what "surrender" is supposed to even mean so I can not really comment on these other than maibe point out that everything is an illusion anyway.

You have to ask yourself the important question: do the mind and how it is is really compatible with life style it would require to make you feel good. If not then even if it provides some good things it is best to remove it from yourself because keeping it won't make you happy. I would even say that the whole of Buddha Dhamma is to remove everything unconditionally and especially since this is Dharma site this is what I recommend doing. So do not participate in any thought, do not jump on these thoughts and if they hang in there just wain until they get bored of you not interacting with them and go away. They might linger for very short or for longer but ultimately if you do not use them when they arise they will start coming up less often and hang around for shorter amounts of time and ultimately won't come up anymore.

Any bait thought that arise originates because of some pleasure that already exists in your mind and can be experienced regardless of you getting it through way that this thought describes or directly as it is. Experience of being empty and lacking something is caused by pleasure that exists and you not experiencing it. If you participate in the thought that say you can get something if you do something and do not meet all the conditions you will feel empty and miserable. When thought doesn't even formulate good plan of getting the thing it is supposed to be abut then you get your current situation.

The nice thing about removing all these thoughts is that you still know how to get all the things through ordinary means and if something is actually doable and you want to do it then you will do it regardless of if you cling and participate in these thoughts or not. So if you would do something you will do it regardless of you clinging to these thoughts of doing it or not.
es pro, welcome to the path..  Major spiritual openings often provide glimpses of beautiful possibilities of mind, but they do not always stick around.  Do you have a formal practice of some kind? 

It is certainly possible to luck into random spiritual experiences, but making these states stick, or reaccessing them generally requires a consistant and dedicated approach.  There are many resources for begining a meditation practice if that interests you, MCTB being one option followed by many on this site. 

Best of luck!
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Stirling Campbell, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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es pro,

What you describe in your posts is a "spiritual experience". I have met a number of people who have had variations of this type of experience (myself included), and it is amazing and life changing. We can feel as though we have flown through the stars and met dieties when they happen. Most often they at least alert us to the idea that there is some bigger underlying reality to things that has touched us. However, because this is only an experience it is temporary, and, like all experiences, will never happen the same way again. You now long for this experience to come back which is EXACTLY what samsara is, clinging or aversion to temporary conditions and struggling with just being with how things are now. This is the cause of your suffering. 

TRUE ego death would also be the death of the "I" that thinks things could be different from how they are in this moment, or believes that they can precipitate them being different. This is not where you are, if I am reading your post correctly. The poor state you are in is likely the result of clinging to things being different than they are today. The dieties went home and left you where you are, but with the knowledge that they are real. However, the suffering is yours and yours to let go of, not the result of some outside influence. Clinging to the memory of something that isn't happening now is like wishing for your life to be like a book you have read. In this moment both have equivalent reality. Heroin addicts keep taking it hoping it will be as good as how they remember the first time, and it never is. Future experiences will never be like what you remember, only different.

To stop hurting you have to let go of this experience and just see it as an event. YES there is something else, another way to see, but it isn't what you think it is, and clinging to a memory won't change things. Asking the same question over and over here is not going to get you the answer you are looking for. The real work is learning to see past the limiting beliefs and constructed self that obscure the reality of things as they are. The methods recommended here are one way to do that. Temporarily adopt the persona of a seeker and find a path that makes sense to you. Find a path that is pro-active, not holding on the the past. Practice it diligently, and patiently without clinging to results and see where it leads you. 
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Jarrett, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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Stirling Campbell:
es pro,

What you describe in your posts is a "spiritual experience". I have met a number of people who have had variations of this type of experience (myself included), and it is amazing and life changing. We can feel as though we have flown through the stars and met dieties when they happen. Most often they at least alert us to the idea that there is some bigger underlying reality to things that has touched us. However, because this is only an experience it is temporary, and, like all experiences, will never happen the same way again. You now long for this experience to come back which is EXACTLY what samsara is, clinging or aversion to temporary conditions and struggling with just being with how things are now. This is the cause of your suffering. 

TRUE ego death would also be the death of the "I" that thinks things could be different from how they are in this moment, or believes that they can precipitate them being different. This is not where you are, if I am reading your post correctly. The poor state you are in is likely the result of clinging to things being different than they are today. The dieties went home and left you where you are, but with the knowledge that they are real. However, the suffering is yours and yours to let go of, not the result of some outside influence. Clinging to the memory of something that isn't happening now is like wishing for your life to be like a book you have read. In this moment both have equivalent reality. Heroin addicts keep taking it hoping it will be as good as how they remember the first time, and it never is. Future experiences will never be like what you remember, only different.

To stop hurting you have to let go of this experience and just see it as an event. YES there is something else, another way to see, but it isn't what you think it is, and clinging to a memory won't change things. Asking the same question over and over here is not going to get you the answer you are looking for. The real work is learning to see past the limiting beliefs and constructed self that obscure the reality of things as they are. The methods recommended hear are one way to do that. Temporarily adopt the persona of a seeker and find a path that makes sense to you. Find a path that is pro-active, not holding on the the past. Practice it diligently, and patiently without clinging to results and see where it leads you. 
this is a great post. let these words sink in, es pro
es pro, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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Thanks for the responses... I do not have a formal practice, I make my life a meditation...I don't see what the point is of a practice for myself. I am aware of myself and my heart constantly. AwReness yes, equanimity no. I know it is something that is cultivated but I have so little that if I tried to cultivate it it would probably just make things worse. So I am trying to get my heart to heal but my ego refuses to let love I .
I do not know how to stop resisting what is. Everywhere I go all that comes into my field of awareness is just thoughts of boredom, of wanting things to be other than what they are, of emptiness, longing. A zombie all the time with no interest in socializing. I am a seeker but answers are eluding me.
i am waiting for the magical heart opening moment that got me out of the dark night last time. There isn't really anything I can do about it but wait patiently and politely. My ego has waaaaaaay too much of a grip on me to let in any light or allow for any healing or change. It's just stuckness, dryness, misery. I wait for magic and worry it will never come.
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SushiK, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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es pro:
 AwReness yes, equanimity no. I know it is something that is cultivated but I have so little that if I tried to cultivate it it would probably just make things worse [...] Everywhere I go all that comes into my field of awareness is just thoughts of boredom, of wanting things to be other than what they are, of emptiness, longing. 

You seem pretty stuck, what do you have to loose in cultivating EQ? From your previous message it seems to be needed.

i am waiting for the magical heart opening moment that got me out of the dark night last time. There isn't really anything I can do about it but wait patiently and politely
Maybe you should details your experiences in very precise terms and give more explanations on what you are looking for :-)

On the one hand you are posting here, asking for advice I presume, on the other hand you seem to have already decided that nothing can be done and you will wait for magic to happen.

I wish you well.
es pro, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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What do I want? My heart to magically open again and basically to disidentify with the ego. I want love and I want freedom, like I had before.
i know it's funny hey, it seems pointless to post here if I feel I can't do anything. I guess part of me is always looking for that magical solution that someone might have up their sleeve.
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Ni Nurta, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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es pro:
What do I want? My heart to magically open again and basically to disidentify with the ego. I want love and I want freedom, like I had before.
i know it's funny hey, it seems pointless to post here if I feel I can't do anything. I guess part of me is always looking for that magical solution that someone might have up their sleeve.
Unfortunately even magical solutions take time, especially when they really need to be precise and safe...
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Jarrett, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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es pro:
What do I want? My heart to magically open again and basically to disidentify with the ego. I want love and I want freedom, like I had before.
i know it's funny hey, it seems pointless to post here if I feel I can't do anything. I guess part of me is always looking for that magical solution that someone might have up their sleeve.
i've seen your posts for a couple months now and you seem stuck.

i think the magical solution you are looking for is daily practice gently investigating the thoughts, sensations, and emotions that comprise your experience.  i think you'll go through this more quickly if you start formal practice again. then see where it takes you.

start with some calm abiding / shamatha.  that will lead you into vipassana territory naturally when your mind settles down.

be gentle.

you're gonna stay stuck the more you fight what is happening and cling to what has already happened.

gentle consistent practice can take you a long way
es pro, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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Thanks...well the thing is with formal practice I mean I am already aware of every breath and of the sensations that are there... and the answer I am looking for is love... which I don't know if meditation can bring me right now. I am so lost in lack of EQ. I am aware of my heart all the time and it is barren and empty. Meditation did show me love at one point a few yeArs ago but I was not grasping for it, it just was...it was beautiful...now I am waiting for some magical moment where maybe my mind forgets to grasp and love is shown to me again...i think it's possible....
A. DIetrich Ringle, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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I really think you could have that. The heart to disidentify. It has happened to me. But it's a predictive science and subject to impermanence. So I am still scratching my head on that one?
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Ni Nurta, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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es pro:
Thanks for the responses... I do not have a formal practice, I make my life a meditation...I don't see what the point is of a practice for myself. I am aware of myself and my heart constantly. AwReness yes, equanimity no. I know it is something that is cultivated but I have so little that if I tried to cultivate it it would probably just make things worse.
Attachement to formal meditation practices is imho violating 3rd fetter so the way that practice is described eg. in books is imho completely bogus...

...but there is still great benefit from doing them a little. Just enough to get taste of them after which you can cultivate this taste in your life and get the same benefits if not greater if you are good at cultivating feelings. This is how I practiced Mahasi noting. I did it few times, got the feeling, then switched to cultivating this feeling and developed mind states and perception changes with this feeling alone. From time to time I did some more of these practices for the purposes of validation, to actually verify I am cultivating the right thing.

I did it like this because this is how I practice my eyesight and synesthesia and somehow managed to improve/develop them so I wanted to test how well it will work with vipassana. I am not really recommending this to people because this kinda sounds like no practice at all but since you do not want to do formal practices and talk about cultivating in general then it makes sense to mention it to you, especially since it is something that will directly give you equanimity emoticon
Tim Farrington, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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emoticon
Thanks for the responses... I do not have a formal practice, I make my life a meditation...I don't see what the point is of a practice for myself. I am aware of myself and my heart constantly. 

dear es,

I think of formal practice as sisyphean, much of the time: meaningless labor, heaving the boulder of the self that wants to be Enlightened in ways I have glimpsed, imagined, or heard about, ways that sound so wonderful, pushing that rock up the hill of samsara with the decidedly unenlightend ego that thinks it runs everything right up until it gets too tired to run anything. The boulder at the top looks like a diamond for a moment in the sunlight, a node in Indra's web, the universe beautifully present in every facet, reflecting everything else, music and dancing and love fests, and then it rolls back down the hill in a cloud of dust. I watch it go, then have a beer, or a six-pack (there is a corner store near the peak, to the left, and the Bar of Last Resort is open 24/7, to the right; you can park your rock on the way up, if you like), and then i drag myself down and have another beer or six, and wait until i am quite sure there's nothing else to do. Then I start pushing again. And once in a while, en route, up or down, i get a glimpse of what Camus might have meant when he ended his essay on the myth of Sisyphus with, "One must imagine Sisyphus happy."

I cannot recommend a useless meaningless laborious formal meditation practice enough. It really keeps you in shape, it passes the time even in despair, and all the drinking establishments are way up the hill anyway.

love, tim
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Stirling Campbell, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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es pro:
Thanks for the responses... I do not have a formal practice, I make my life a meditation...I don't see what the point is of a practice for myself. I am aware of myself and my heart constantly. AwReness yes, equanimity no.

If you have a project, do you start it on a table full of clutter or on a clean crisp desk? Meditation ("open awareness" anyway) is that desk... is bare awareness. This clean, quiet awareness is what you are looking for. When the mind is quiet and empty there IS no "self" or ego present, there IS no thinking mind and thus NO suffering. The ability to rest in open awareness takes practice... but not years of practice. Most people that I have worked with begin to see moments of this spaciousness within a week, and enjoy longer periods of it in under a month. It is something you can rest in at any time once you know what it is. You can identify that your "ego" or "self" is burying you in painful thinking, and let it dissolve and just rest in awareness. 

Your equinimity is a wet bar of soap. The tighter you cling to it, the more it slips from your hand. If you simply stop grasping at it and let it be still in the open palm of your hand, it remains there. Another analogy is the famous jar of muddy water. If you walk around with the jar it stays muddy, but if you set it on a shelf it naturally settles out and clarifies. So it is with the mind. To have equanimity (if we are talking about the same thing) you need to let your mind settle out and stop dragging you through your painful thoughts.
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Ni Nurta, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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I generally agree with your post but what I do not like is usage of words "ego" and "self".
Neither existence of ego or self is the issue but having processes generating these experiences being stuck CAN be an issue. In reality any stuck process is the issue. Clinging is one of such process as is being stuck in the loop of trying to get away from suffering by participating in experiences which seem to bring relief but which itself only fuel this suffering.

You can also have your mind configured to not have any suffering from ego/self or even not having any sense of self/ego but these configurations can still have the same issue of tiring your brain, just originating from something entirely different. If someone does have some issue but not with ego/self and listen to typical explanation such as yours or generally found in dharma books then all this line of thinking will give them is reason to screw up their sense of self by making it generate suffering. Then solving this issue might lead to realization how to deal with general cases but this solution is pretty unskillful and I never liked it, especially seeing that people who are "done" do not have healthy relationships with their own sense of self and which is completely possible. One of the side effects of that unhealthy relationship with ego/self is having cycles and fruition even after alleged 4th path. These should not happen anymore.
es pro, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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I don't know, I don't care about stages or fruition's or whatever, the answer I am looking for is love. And again I really don't think meditation can get me there, a chance blossoming of the heart might, like last time. Apparently it's possible.
and I was seeing my therapist until last week. It started getting a bit sour- she got fed up with me- and so now I'm going to take a break and see someone else for awhile. It was helping a bit. Back in June/July we had a couple good sessions with lots of tears and clarity. But the trauma loop would just come back and make me feel empty again. So no cumulative healing was had... 
I am convinced love is the answer and she is not...she thinks I need to get outside and stay busy and challenge my thoughts.....I meanwhile feel a void in my heart that was once satisfied by love...
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svmonk, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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Hi es pro,

Unfortunately, I think your therapist is right. Love in the abstract is kind of like number theory or differential calculus but on the emotional side. It is just a feeling, which you alone are experiencing. Where love really becomes important is where it manifests in your relationship with other people and the world, what you give to other people and to your environment, and what they give back to you.

As long as you remain firmly attached to somehow regaining your previous experience, you are going to make yourself miserable. That experience is gone now, like Woodstock in 1968 or Napoleon's defeat at Waterloo. Actually, I did this myself. I had an intense experience on my first Zen retreat, where I felt that I was somehow seeing the origin of the universe. I spent years trying to regain this experience. I was constantly judging my meditation practice, made no progress, and was miserable. This is what people on this site call the Dark Night, or DN, kind of jargon. Once I dropped that and realized that meditation was just part of my life like brushing my teeth, that it had positive side effect on my mental state if I just suspended judgement and let it work, I felt much better.

From the tone of your posts, it sounds like you probably won't take this advice, but I would advise you to get out and spend more time with friends (if you can given the COVID situation where you live), go hiking somewhere and enjoy the forest and any animals you see, or at least take a walk in the park and laugh at the squirrels.

Good luck!
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Ni Nurta, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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es pro:
I don't know, I don't care about stages or fruition's or whatever, the answer I am looking for is love. And again I really don't think meditation can get me there, a chance blossoming of the heart might, like last time. Apparently it's possible.
While at first this looks like clinging it is actually exactly what we all always do, doesn't matter if it is love, money or these paths and fruitions. There is an idea what will help us and we simply seek it.

I believe you know what you need and I hope love and you will find each other.
Tim Farrington, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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Ni Nurta:
es pro:
I don't know, I don't care about stages or fruition's or whatever, the answer I am looking for is love. And again I really don't think meditation can get me there, a chance blossoming of the heart might, like last time. Apparently it's possible.
While at first this looks like clinging it is actually exactly what we all always do, doesn't matter if it is love, money or these paths and fruitions. There is an idea what will help us and we simply seek it.

I believe you know what you need and I hope love and you will find each other.
 Amen.
A. DIetrich Ringle, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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[quote=One of the side effects of that unhealthy relationship with ego/self is having cycles and fruition even after alleged 4th path. These should not happen anymore.
]

That is really unusual. Where did you learn that?

Edit
This would beg the question - What sense door would predominate?
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Ni Nurta, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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Dominant sense door for 4th path should be "recursion"
In Mahayana it is 5th path. It differs in supermundane stuff which is perhaps material for a book and not a post.

Cycles of insight are an error caused by lacking recursive activation.
I learned my mind by trying stuff and observing the effects. Just as Buddha told me I should do to become Buddha myself emoticon

From the words that Buddha used I can assess that he got it. No one can however use concepts from branch of science that did not exist, at least in way that would be understood by people of the time. Also... assuming Gautama Buddha had cycles and fruition is quite silly, how could he when he was already "gone"? emoticon

ps. Perhaps the better description would be "gone in" emoticon
ps2. Or "gone out" for Mahayana emoticon
A. DIetrich Ringle, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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Ni Nurta:
Dominant sense door for 4th path should be "recursion"
In Mahayana it is 5th path. It differs in supermundane stuff which is perhaps material for a book and not a post.

Cycles of insight are an error caused by lacking recursive activation.
I learned my mind by trying stuff and observing the effects. Just as Buddha told me I should do to become Buddha myself emoticon

From the words that Buddha used I can assess that he got it. No one can however use concepts from branch of science that did not exist, at least in way that would be understood by people of the time. Also... assuming Gautama Buddha had cycles and fruition is quite silly, how could he when he was already "gone"? emoticon

ps. Perhaps the better description would be "gone in" emoticon
ps2. Or "gone out" for Mahayana emoticon

Is there a point in practice where we just "give up" and patiently wait for our next life to manifest? I have at times thought the Buddha was reborn.
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Ni Nurta, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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A. DIetrich Ringle:

Is there a point in practice where we just "give up" and patiently wait for our next life to manifest? I have at times thought the Buddha was reborn.
Two things:
- nothig lasts not even non-existence
- by his actions Buddha generated shitload of karma...

I am generally against the idea of giving up. You might get tired so much to not be able to make action but in your spirit you should still fight for what you know is right. If however you are fighting and know it is either plain wrong or of dubious quality then in the first case just stop and in second procees slower and with more caution and formulate better action plan which you know is right.

Related video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQemoticon
Tim Farrington, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
Ni Nurta:
A. DIetrich Ringle:

Is there a point in practice where we just "give up" and patiently wait for our next life to manifest? I have at times thought the Buddha was reborn.
Two things:
- nothig lasts not even non-existence
- by his actions Buddha generated shitload of karma...

I am generally against the idea of giving up. You might get tired so much to not be able to make action but in your spirit you should still fight for what you know is right. If however you are fighting and know it is either plain wrong or of dubious quality then in the first case just stop and in second procees slower and with more caution and formulate better action plan which you know is right.

Related video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQemoticon


The Time Before Before Deathby Kabir (version by Robert Bly)
Friend, hope for the Guest while you are alive.
Jump into experience while you are alive!
Think . . . and think . . . while you are alive.
What you call “salvation” belongs to the time
before death. If you don’t break your ropes while you’re alive,do you think
ghosts will do it after?
The idea that the should will rejoin the ecstatic
just because the body is rotten—that is all fantasy.
What is found now is found then.
If you find nothing now,you will simply end up with an apartment in the
City of the Death.
If you make love with the divine now, in the nextlife you will have the face of satisfied desire
So plunge into the truth, find out who the Teacher is,
Believe in the Great Sound!
Kabir says this: When the Guest is being searched for
it is the intensity of the longing for the Guest that
does all the work.
Look at me, and you will see a slave of that intensity.
A. DIetrich Ringle, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

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I think Buddha got second path. He might have helped people get far beyond what he achieved himself.
es pro, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
Thanks for the responses.... what do you guys think of the idea that I am controlling my breath? Basically after I dissolved my ego structure, I was left with strong awareness of my breath. Over a few months, it seemed like it was becoming not automatic... like each breath I am grasping for it instead of it just happening. With this constant craving/aversion from just the breath I do not see how the realization of truth is possible........ although I WAS PROMISED it IS possible, it's just that the last few months  are evidence that it isn't possible ..
A. DIetrich Ringle, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

Posts: 805 Join Date: 12/4/11 Recent Posts
es pro:
Thanks for the responses.... what do you guys think of the idea that I am controlling my breath? Basically after I dissolved my ego structure, I was left with strong awareness of my breath. Over a few months, it seemed like it was becoming not automatic... like each breath I am grasping for it instead of it just happening. With this constant craving/aversion from just the breath I do not see how the realization of truth is possible........ although I WAS PROMISED it IS possible, it's just that the last few months  are evidence that it isn't possible ..

I would do some research if I were you.
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Ni Nurta, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

Posts: 733 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
es pro:
Thanks for the responses.... what do you guys think of the idea that I am controlling my breath? Basically after I dissolved my ego structure, I was left with strong awareness of my breath. Over a few months, it seemed like it was becoming not automatic... like each breath I am grasping for it instead of it just happening. With this constant craving/aversion from just the breath I do not see how the realization of truth is possible........ although I WAS PROMISED it IS possible, it's just that the last few months  are evidence that it isn't possible ..
A&P leads to Dukkha Nana because mind instead of experiencing what it is supposed to experience hangs around invalid mind states which contain echoes of past pleasure. If you weren't trying to figure out what you experienced in the past and weren't re-experience the same things you would not have these issues.

The irony of these experiences is that always when this happens it is because there is actually something fresh and good to be expedience somewhere in the mind. That is why you have a mind which you use to experience the invalid past states. If the stream of experience which create mind you use to experience this junk disappeared then this mind would immediately disappear. If you would not hang around these past experiences so much then parts of your brain which contain these experiences would start process of rest and sorting itself out. You can try to make this mind which you use to experience stuff disappear and you can probably manage to do it but that is of no use because it will be created again and this process will generate few more experiences in what seems like random places making this mind larger and finding what you should experience harder. This making mind disappear is "relief from suffering" and this action is unskillful and you most probably do it a lot.

There are two ways to deal with this:
1. Actually experience these experiences with the mind which is there to experience them
2. Stop the experiences on which you should have your mind on

Which should be used depends on "meaning" of the experience and if you want to stop or support the processes which generated these experiences. To know what you stop you need to experience it. It is however possible to stop stuff blindly and there are methods to make it kinda skillful eg. generating random noise with quality of Nibbana (which is pretty much this stopping actions).

This whole issue is caused by the fact that mind to be more in how it can experience things can move around and connect to these experiences differently eg. from different side. If this ability is abused by moving mind to completely different location eg. of past experiences then you get your Dukkha Nanas.

Clinging is taking mind out of experience it is supposed to expeirence to somewhere else. The thing mind should experience can be in completely different location in mind space. So just stop your mind from dwelling in the past, your truth, some past love and other junk and look around for what feel like just the right experience for this mind and experience it. Once the connection is made the mind will stop being agitated and will still be there but relaxed and there won't be experience of urgency to actually control its movement. And do not worry about stuff you are leaving behind. When it is ready to be experienced it will create its own mind to experience this stuff. Though because you spent few months on it then it might take some time before it fixes itself. Do not try to experience this stuff yourself, do not think about it. Now it might seems important to experience it but this is what is making you miserable. Experience things which are actually there.
es pro, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

Posts: 190 Join Date: 10/31/17 Recent Posts
I don't know where to do research on the breath thing....maybe someone can answer here? Is it a problem that I am grasping / controlling my breath, can it prevent me from realizing truth/equanimity that I seek?
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

Posts: 1997 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
es pro:
I don't know where to do research on the breath thing....maybe someone can answer here? Is it a problem that I am grasping / controlling my breath, can it prevent me from realizing truth/equanimity that I seek?

You can try to look it up in the book called "es pro's breath". 

You open it up by breathing out and you "read it" ... you turn the next page by breathing in and you "read it" ... is it unpleasant, is it pleasant or neutral, is the abdomen falling or rising, what mind states arise with the in and which ones with the out breath etc ? You keep reading that book until you find the answers on "realizing the truth/equanimity that you seek". 

All journeys start with the first step (or breath)
I wish you all the best. 
A. DIetrich Ringle, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

Posts: 805 Join Date: 12/4/11 Recent Posts
In my experience, equanimity only shines when there is something to be equanimous about. If not, it might be there underneath, but it's presence will not show. I spend most of my days trying to loosen and tie myself up (not literally hopefully) in order to work though the stuff I need to. I research stuff on the internet, with equanimity, and sometimes it's cool, but always impermanent.
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Ni Nurta, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

Posts: 733 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
es pro:
I don't know where to do research on the breath thing....maybe someone can answer here? Is it a problem that I am grasping / controlling my breath, can it prevent me from realizing truth/equanimity that I seek?
You are not supposed to keep this mind on the breath at all and most probably this mind should experience sense of self.

Like I said, mind with which you can do things is a dynamic object which is created solely for the purpose of experiencing a specific thing. It is possible to completely miss the mark and keep it in wrong position. In fact you can keep all such minds on wrong positions.

How I see it you have read some bullshit about "ego dissolution" being something great and kept mind which experienced sense of self on your breath to not experience self. Experience of self not having any mind to experience it disappeared but it itself and mind which is created for it did not disappear and self not being experienced only made mind intended to experience it louder. Now you have mind which you need to put somewhere and keep it on breath which screw up performance of mind which control your breath automatically. You probably keep this breath mind somewhere else and whatever mind that should experience this something else in some even more obscure locations or even try to hit your sense of self with it. This is called having your perception tangled in to a knot.
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Ni Nurta, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

Posts: 733 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
A. DIetrich Ringle:
I think Buddha got second path. He might have helped people get far beyond what he achieved himself.
Could you expand on this thought?
A. DIetrich Ringle, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

Posts: 805 Join Date: 12/4/11 Recent Posts
He had a path of renunciation, which was the fruit of him experiencing the path of jhana (with mindfulness) as a young child. First path was the result of his merit (if you want to call it that) in his previous life.
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Ni Nurta, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

Posts: 733 Join Date: 2/22/20 Recent Posts
A. DIetrich Ringle:
He had a path of renunciation, which was the fruit of him experiencing the path of jhana (with mindfulness) as a young child. First path was the result of his merit (if you want to call it that) in his previous life.
Interresting theory.
What is usefullness of it though?
Buddha's teachings which he gave to people have metadata encoded in them. Run-of-the-mill person who reads sutta will read content and ignore this metadata completely. Stream Enterer and up will begin to see true meaning encoded there. Buddha will read suttas and recognize own attainment.

BTW. My five paths are in this order: synesthesia, Nibbana, jhanas, Vajra Samadhi and Samsara.
shargrol, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

Posts: 1575 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
es pro:
I do not have a formal practice
es pro, are you still seeing the therapist? Is that helping?
Tim Farrington, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

Posts: 2470 Join Date: 6/13/11 Recent Posts
shargrol:
es pro:
I do not have a formal practice
es pro, are you still seeing the therapist? Is that helping?

ssss
es pro

I was seeing my therapist until last week. It started getting a bit sour- she got fed up with me- and so now I'm going to take a break and see someone else for awhile. It was helping a bit. Back in June/July we had a couple good sessions with lots of tears and clarity. But the trauma loop would just come back and make me feel empty again. So no cumulative healing was had... 

I am convinced love is the answer and she is not...she thinks I need to get outside and stay busy and challenge my thoughts.....I meanwhile feel a void in my heart that was once satisfied by love...
 Shargrol, my understanding, and I hope es pro will corect me if this is wrong, is that she is currently in a very supportive home environment, with concerned parents, a prescribing psychiatrist, and, up until last week, the therapist in question. I know there was a serious reexamination of the what-drugs-will-help? question recently, and her situation in gerneral, by a doctor at the local hospital. The normative, pragmatic basics are basically well attended to here, as I understand it.

I think it is plain that es pro is one of those hard-headed, hell-bent, utterly determined types on the path, who scare the shit out of everybody who cares for them. As most of us here are. This dark night is a real one. She still is determined to see it as her own fault, an uncontrollable spasm/death-grip by a pathological ego, and that is near the paradoxical heart of her bind, as I read it. But the night has its ways of wearing out even the most resistant self-structures, as many of us here also know. And she continues to speak of tastes: a good cry, a glimpse of the melting; a still small voice, whispering that it is possible. 

es pro?

love, tim
A. DIetrich Ringle, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

Posts: 805 Join Date: 12/4/11 Recent Posts
What you have to do is convince your mind you are having a good time. Even if other circumstances dictate the opposite. Later on you will realize you are a bad ass.
A. DIetrich Ringle, modified 11 Months ago.

RE: Who the hell has full blown kundalini and then falls to absolute dust?

Posts: 805 Join Date: 12/4/11 Recent Posts
I have also noticed that I don't wake up feeling good either!

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