One Sensation at a Time?

Jazz Muzak, modified 5 Months ago.

One Sensation at a Time?

Posts: 33 Join Date: 9/27/19 Recent Posts
Hello all, apologies if this has already been asked and answered.

I've been going back to the basics with my practice lately, and have been perusing the early chapters in MCTB2. In the chapter "The Three Characteristics", Daniel describes sensations and their mental impressions "arising and vanishing completely before the next arises, so it is possible to sort out which is which with relatively stable attention..."

I've noticed that typically in my vipassana practice, I am not noticing a single sensation at a time. In fact, the field of awareness that I am perceiving is very wide (although the width and depth changes, which I think has to do with the PoI), and is made up of many many many sensations. These all come and go quite rapidly. Is Daniel refering to how each individual sensation disappears before the "replacement" for THAT particular sensation arises, or is it more like the "one electron" theory where there is just one electron moving so fast it seems to appear everywhere? Do I need to increase the clarity my perceptual resolution and narrow my focus to the point I'm literally perceiving only one sensation at a time? Or is the wide field of many sensations that I currently perceive fine?

Thanks, and I hope you are all well.
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Ni Nurta, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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One sensation at a time seems like how the left brain hemisphere perceives things.
All practices presented in MCTB seems to be for left hemisphere... while outcome somehow points to stroger right hemisphere output to perception. I mean specifically things like field of self knowing sensations and such. Actually these descriptions can be confusing to someone who already have stronger right hemisphere and especially if someone develops it somewhere at later stages.

In any way it is entirely possible that the presentation you describe is simply because it is natural for you.
Should you try to notice sensations on-at-a-time? I guess it shouldn't hurt to try. Just keep in mind that you do have two hemispheres with somewhat different qualities regarding sensations opposite practices will cause their activation. If you are a right hemisphere person then doing practices for left hemisphere might cause you to experience reality from its perspective which depending on many factors can be super helpful or can lead to some issues, at least until your brain learns how to use such configuration.

My 2 cents
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Helen Pohl, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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This is unclear to me as well. 

So many things occur at the same time or very nearly so that it feels like walking naked through drizzle and being asked to 'feel every raindrop'. I just open up as much as I can and try and stay with it-whatever 'it' is at the moment. emoticon
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Chris Marti, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Do I need to increase the clarity my perceptual resolution and narrow my focus to the point I'm literally perceiving only one sensation at a time? Or is the wide field of many sensations that I currently perceive fine?

I look at things this way:

- Be careful about making the assumption that you're truly perceiving many objects at once because you can easily lock into the concept that you are, but that one concept is actually the object you're perceiving. Typically this is a mental image.

- You have to practice to increase the speed of recognition - the mind works very fast, so you need to get up to that speed of perception to see the way it's working.

- Clarity of perception is generally a function of speed

I hope this is helpful!
Jazz Muzak, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Chris Marti:
Do I need to increase the clarity my perceptual resolution and narrow my focus to the point I'm literally perceiving only one sensation at a time? Or is the wide field of many sensations that I currently perceive fine?

I look at things this way:

- Be careful about making the assumption that you're truly perceiving many objects at once because you can easily lock into the concept that you are, but that one concept is actually the object you're perceiving. Typically this is a mental image.

- You have to practice to increase the speed of recognition - the mind works very fast, so you need to get up to that speed of perception to see the way it's working.

- Clarity of perception is generally a function of speed

I hope this is helpful!


Chris, thank you for the input. So, you're saying I could be viewing a "TV screen of static" and assuming I'm perceiving each particle of static as an individual sensation when really what I'm perceiving is "TV screen of static" as a single object? Because right now it FEELS like the former, but it could certainly be the later.
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Chris Marti, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Because right now it FEELS like the former, but it could certainly be the later.

There's only one way to find out which is happening, Jazz -- sit still and investigate it for yourself!

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Ni Nurta, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Chris Marti:
Because right now it FEELS like the former, but it could certainly be the later.

There's only one way to find out which is happening, Jazz -- sit still and investigate it for yourself!

Results will be influenced by how you do the investigation.
It is safe to assume that even someone who naturally use right hemisphere will do these kinds of practices using left hemisphere. Not only Vipassana practice of choice around these parts include using mental word labels but conclusion is specified and the goal of practice is not freestyle checking what is possible but getting to this exact conclusion emoticon

That is the issue with making conclusions based on very specific practices. If the practice drives the conclusion and conclusion drives understanding then depending on practices done conclusions can be like these practices, half the truth based on using half of the brain emoticon

edit://
Just to be clear: I am fully aware that more brain is used than half even if it is specifically left hemisphere practice. Right does its thing regardless and it provides left with where it could jump next.

However the interfaces and ways of generating consciousness which right hemisphere can provide are not used unless practices are specifically designed for right hemisphere.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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"That is the issue with making conclusions based on very specific practices. If the practice drives the conclusion and conclusion drives understanding then depending on practices done conclusions can be like these practices, half the truth based on using half of the brain"

Its not black and white as this. Sure I do agree that  conclusions will be based on the practice but don't exclude the LATER integration that will take place as part of the "ripening" emoticon 

Stuff tends to equalize (Yin-Yang) if we get out of the way emoticon 
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Olivier, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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This thread 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Olivier:
This thread 
Which one represents me? 
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Chris Marti, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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You? Who knows. I'm that little dog, though.
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Olivier, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Chris Marti:
You? Who knows. I'm that little dog, though.
Funny, I was gonna say I'm the haughty lute playing pig !

I'm definitely one of the musicians though,
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Olivier:
Chris Marti:
You? Who knows. I'm that little dog, though.
Funny, I was gonna say I'm the haughty lute playing pig !

I'm definitely one of the musicians though,
I can see Tim FF in the picture but not in this thread! This pic is a false representation of this thread! Its not according to the Suttas!!! I OBJECT! 
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Olivier, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Papa Che Dusko:
Olivier:
Chris Marti:
You? Who knows. I'm that little dog, though.
Funny, I was gonna say I'm the haughty lute playing pig !

I'm definitely one of the musicians though,
I can see Tim FF in the picture but not in this thread! This pic is a false representation of this thread! Its not according to the Suttas!!! I OBJECT! 

True but... I think he is here...
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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I must be that pig guy with the electric guitar!!!
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Ni Nurta, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Rather long faces on this picture so hard to say emoticonemoticonemoticon

I am am the one on the right though emoticon
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Dibs on being the owl so that I can uhm rise above it all. emoticon I was going to say fly away. 
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Alan Smithee, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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People can correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that Daniel is stating one of the core Buddhist doctrines, that, were we to have the power of concentration and mindfulness, we might (maybe) be able to see that no two sensations can occur exactly at the same time. I think that this is important because if more than one sensation can exist at the same time, one might say that one sensation is the master of the other, or that one is more "the self" than the other. That said, I've read innumerable accounts of those who have gotten stream entry (many posted by yogis on this site), and none of them have ever claimed to have refined their perception to the level of actually being able to see this. Conversely, the sharper the concentration and mindfullness, the more fluxy and vibration-y things seem to get (more, as opposed to less sensations). As a current Equanimity yogi, I can attest that this is my experience. Generally, from what I've read of yogi's accounts of getting stream is that concentration and mindfullness fixates and hones in on the gap when there are no sensations present, thus, pure emptiness, ie nibbana. I really don't know what I'm talking about here, but just a few days ago I reread the same section of MCToB 2 about the Three Characteristics, and the same section struck me, and this is how I made sense of it myself. 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Attention can only perceive one sensation at a time. Awareness knows it all. And sure, the latter is a mind construction, but note that our entire world as it appears to us is a mind construction too. 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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I might add that I did notice this before stream entry. It's a good exercise, to do this with your attention to really see how partial it is.

As for now, I really prefer to use attention less and asareness more, because attention feels like an octopus clinging to my face. 
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Chris Marti, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Attention can only perceive one sensation at a time. Awareness knows it all.

Yeah -- just what is awareness, anyway? It looks to me like it's constructed. It's an idea we use to talk about a concept that no one has a satisfying definition for. It's like the self - something people assume exists but can't put their finger on.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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It's not a thing. It's a flow of becoming, where everything just knows itself while it arises. 
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Chris Marti, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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It's not a thing. It's a flow of becoming, where everything just knows itself while it arises. 

I'm not sure what this means. Can you elaborate? What is there in consciousness that's not a thing? If it's an idea, it's a thing. Even you just said:

Awareness knows it all. And sure, the latter is a mind construction, but note that our entire world as it appears to us is a mind construction too. 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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I don't care as long as it works. 

If everything knowing itself as it arises doesn't make any sense to you, then how do you define nonduality?
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Chris Marti, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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I don't care as long as it works  emoticon
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Well then. Awareness and nonduality are the same thing as far as I'm concerned. 

Edit: NON-thing.
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Chris Marti, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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This leaves me wondering what a non-thing could possibly be. But you don't need to explain it to me. I'll be fine not knowing.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Do you consider non-duality a thing? 
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Chris Marti, modified 5 Months ago.

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Why yes, I do. The only way for me to even consider non-duality is to have a construct, an idea, in mind. So yes, it's a thing. Everything in consciousness is a thing. It's all mind-made. All of this. Every last tiny bit.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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So that's how you are using the word. In that case, then it is a thing. I was merely trying to emphasize that any concept of what happens is but a construction and I don't think that the concept of what happens and what happens are the same things. It's just that the sensations clumping together as the concept sort of have name tags that point to all the other sensations and to the concept of being someone who knows them. 
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Chris Marti, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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I'm happy to leave definitions of whatever it is that's outside my experience, outside of what's mind, as a mystery. A deep mystery that is completely untouchable and unknowable. I think folks tend to want to go there because it's scary. It leaves us with nothing to grasp, with no safety mechanism. Mind likes to think there's a floor beneath us and that we're not going to be in free fall our entire lives. But that's the point! We're in free fall our entire lives.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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The free fall is what I'm trying to describe. I called it a flow of becoming. I'm fine with leaving it a mystery too, but you asked.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Chris Marti:
I'm happy to leave definitions of whatever it is that's outside my experience, outside of what's mind, as a mystery. A deep mystery that is completely untouchable and unknowable. I think folks tend to want to go there because it's scary. It leaves us with nothing to grasp, with no safety mechanism. Mind likes to think there's a floor beneath us and that we're not going to be in free fall our entire lives. But that's the point! We're in free fall our entire lives.

Wow emoticon so you can't feel your feet on the solid ground at all?! Wow!
(I'm happy to skip that part) ;) 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Papa Che Dusko:
Chris Marti:
I'm happy to leave definitions of whatever it is that's outside my experience, outside of what's mind, as a mystery. A deep mystery that is completely untouchable and unknowable. I think folks tend to want to go there because it's scary. It leaves us with nothing to grasp, with no safety mechanism. Mind likes to think there's a floor beneath us and that we're not going to be in free fall our entire lives. But that's the point! We're in free fall our entire lives.

Wow emoticon so you can't feel your feet on the solid ground at all?! Wow!
(I'm happy to skip that part) ;) 
Is the ground always solid for you? For me it isn't. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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"Is the ground always solid for you? For me it isn't. "

Not if I hop! emoticon 


Seriously, yes it does change in feet sensations and can get unnoticeable as if there are no feet on the ground at all, to fluffy and vibratory and heavy hard but most of the time it's solid and seems to have something to do with gravity as I'm always pulled down to it emoticon 

Of course I could also change the wording so we all quack together as birds of feather stick together emoticon The knowing of Mind impression of feet sensation touching the ground ... etc ... ;) 


p.s. please don't take my funky mood as something negative emoticon I really am in a funny mode after this last few days of some solidly perceived struggle. I'm sure it's just a stage change which does it's thing. 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Papa Che Dusko:
"Is the ground always solid for you? For me it isn't. "

Not if I hop! emoticon 


Seriously, yes it does change in feet sensations and can get unnoticeable as if there are no feet on the ground at all, to fluffy and vibratory and heavy hard but most of the time it's solid and seems to have something to do with gravity as I'm always pulled down to it emoticon 

Of course I could also change the wording so we all quack together as birds of feather stick together emoticon The knowing of Mind impression of feet sensation touching the ground ... etc ... ;) 


p.s. please don't take my funky mood as something negative emoticon I really am in a funny mode after this last few days of some solidly perceived struggle. I'm sure it's just a stage change which does it's thing. 

No worries. It's just that I have experienced sinking into the ground and waves in wooden floors or pavements being large, not just tiny dots hopping around. I think it's fascinating to talk with people about how they experience the world. For me it varies a lot. Depression can make believes seem very solid, for instance. 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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I also wonder why it is so important to emphasize that we can only have one sensation at a time when it's ALL mindmade. It seems more effective to just go with the sensations that include a holistic knowing than bouncing around like that. Bouncing around doesn't make it something other than a construction anyway.

(In case you missed it, I also replied at the bottom of the previous page.)
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Chris Marti, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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I also wonder why it is so important to emphasize that we can only have one sensation at a time when it's ALL mindmade.

I can tell you this from my experience - knowing now mind creates this experience we have is key. If we make assumptions about how mind works that aren't grounded in our own investigations and subsequent personal realizations and experience of how it works, we're just wandering aimlessly. 
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Of course I'm only talking from my own experience. From what other experience could I possibly be talking? It is MY experience that attention feels like an octopus clinging to my face and that I prefer to let things just know themselves when possible. But if you enjoy the bouncing around, feel free to bounce around as much as you like. 
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Chris Marti, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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I said "from my experience" so that people reading would know that's the basis from which I was saying what I said. It wasn't a commentary on what you were saying. Peace!

emoticon
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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No worries, we are fine. emoticon I'm just sceptical of your phenomenology, that's all, because in my experience it doesn't do justice to how nonduality works. It's not like it reduces everything to superficial concepts. On the contrary, it has rich tastes and textures without having to bounce around like that. 

(I'm inbetween two different yoga classes now, so that's why my reply didn't come as fast as before. Just clarifying so you don't think that I'm holding a grudge and were declining your peace offering or something. emoticon ) 
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Olivier, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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IME the one sensation at a time thing is preposterous, as is the notion that there are sensate atoms arising and vanishing at a certain max rate independant of the intention to observe in this way (as ni said upthread , and as Burbea has stated on numerous occasions). 

Also i don't think taking experience as the only ultimate gold standard is right. Reason and analysis have their place and power. In fact it seems to me more and more that higher realization has to do with intellectual understanding and not perceptive attainments. That's stated by Gampopa in his description of the bhumis in Precious ornement of liberation, too.  

Well i also think we all agree anyway, but "social life is civil war", innit.
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Chris Marti, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Obviously, YMMV Olivier  emoticon
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Chris Marti, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Reason and analysis have their place and power. In fact it seems to me more and more that higher realization has to do with intellectual understanding and not perceptive attainments.

I include reason and analysis in my definition of experience, Olivier. I'm not making an artificial distinction. It's all the same mind-made "stuff."
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Olivier, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Right.

So, about the word mind, since we were talking about precise phenomenological codification. When i hear mind i think "intentional consciousness", as in attentional objectification. But you use it,or so it seems to me, as "impressional consciousness", as in the self-knowingness or luminosity of manifestation, or "absolute phenomenological life" (Some call this Jesus Christ emoticon)

Mind coming for latin mens, sanskrit manas, yes ? It seems to me like in the body-mind-spirit triad, what you're referring to might correspond better to the spirit part, is that fair to say ? Because in my perhaps incorrect understanding, mind usually describes the part of manifestation made up of thoughts and such, the so-called sixth sense door, so it's a confusing usage. 

"Some people say look for the mind, i say there is no mind", etc.
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Olivier:
IME the one sensation at a time thing is preposterous, as is the notion that there are sensate atoms arising and vanishing at a certain max rate independant of the intention to observe in this way (as ni said upthread , and as Burbea has stated on numerous occasions). 

Also i don't think taking experience as the only ultimate gold standard is right. Reason and analysis have their place and power. In fact it seems to me more and more that higher realization has to do with intellectual understanding and not perceptive attainments. That's stated by Gampopa in his description of the bhumis in Precious ornement of liberation, too.  

Well i also think we all agree anyway, but "social life is civil war", innit.

I think that intellectual resoning refers to itself rather than to whatever it is we are trying to understand. On the other hand, I think that is also the case with dualistic investigations where there is assumed to be physical senses and a brain looking at something out there. In other words, you are both nuts. emoticon That doesn't preclude that I'm also nuts, by the way. 
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Chris Marti, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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I'm just sceptical of your phenomenology, that's all, because in my experience it doesn't do justice to how nonduality works. It's not like it reduces everything to superficial concepts. On the contrary, it has rich tastes and textures without having to bounce around like that. 

Superficial concepts? Who said I was agin' rich tastes and textures? That's definitely part of the deal. But those are also objects, right?
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Chris Marti:
I'm just sceptical of your phenomenology, that's all, because in my experience it doesn't do justice to how nonduality works. It's not like it reduces everything to superficial concepts. On the contrary, it has rich tastes and textures without having to bounce around like that. 

Superficial concepts? Who said I was agin' rich tastes and textures? That's definitely part of the deal. But those are also objects, right?
In my language use, concept level is superficial as far as phenomenology goes. Sure, there can be tastes and textures to concepts too, but only if we experience them on a level that goes beyond conceptual thinking. 

Objects? To which subject?
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Chris Marti:
I said "from my experience" so that people reading would know that's the basis from which I was saying what I said. It wasn't a commentary on what you were saying. Peace!

emoticon

In my experience there is a ... stiffness in the right side of the neck ... unpleasant, ... gone ... transcendent ... Devine ... rainbow-like ... blip, blip, blip ... quack quack quack emoticon 


p.s. I'm just in a funny mode now emoticon please ignore emoticon 
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Olivier, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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[quote=Hibiscus Kid
]...I didn't feel that I could be aware of multiple things - it seemed like attention was scanning for and singling out sensations in turn (such as thoughts and the breath for example). An analogy: imagine trying to illuminate an entire room (awareness) with a laser pointer (rapidly shifting attention [or the mind] experiencing one sensation at a time). 

To this day, I still have trouble with open awareness practices for this reason.

Although I see that this is how the mind functions on some level, there is a disconnect in that this understanding hasn't really reduced much (if any) suffering. 
Can you not look at someone's face and hear what they're telling you while also not losing the feeling of your body ? 

What is "one Sensation" if not a self ?
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 5 Months ago.

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Olivier:

Can you not look at someone's face and hear what they're telling you while also not losing the feeling of your body ? 

I would say that you can’t, but all sensations can know themselves at the same time. If you experience them, you are either not you in that moment or you are just fooling yourself with brain photoshopping from memory.
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Olivier:

Can you not look at someone's face and hear what they're telling you while also not losing the feeling of your body ? 

I would say that you can’t, but all sensations can know themselves at the same time. If you experience them, you are either not you in that moment or you are just fooling yourself with brain photoshopping from memory.

To Olivier; 
yes, I can. For instance the breathing sensation is there and interacting with folks talking. 

To Linda;
Yes, when profoundly engaged with an experience/sensation there is no self in it unless I start pondering about it and adding extra hats onto my head emoticon 

All this kind of talk is but waste folks. Just saying. 
"My experience, your experience, this is the right one, no that is the right one". I only hope we don't confuse those practicing diligently with all this know-it-all chit chat. 

Good night dear folks emoticon 
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Ni Nurta, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Papa Che Dusko:

All this kind of talk is but waste folks. Just saying. 
"My experience, your experience, this is the right one, no that is the right one". I only hope we don't confuse those practicing diligently with all this know-it-all chit chat.
I am pretty sure mine is the right experience emoticon
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

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Ni Nurta:
Papa Che Dusko:

All this kind of talk is but waste folks. Just saying. 
"My experience, your experience, this is the right one, no that is the right one". I only hope we don't confuse those practicing diligently with all this know-it-all chit chat.
I am pretty sure mine is the right experience emoticon

Of course it is emoticonemoticonemoticon 

Edit; or should I say "mine is the left experience" emoticon 
Jazz Muzak, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

Posts: 33 Join Date: 9/27/19 Recent Posts
Lots of beautiful discussion!

Been thinking about this more. I remember several years ago when I started my practice, I felt more like I had to do "one thing at a time", and I felt that I very specifically had to "shine a light" on sensations to get them in attention and "do the Vipassana", as it were. These days, it's much more of an allowing, letting sensations light up "on their own" in a way, which I think allows for the broader patterns of sensation that show up in "the Vipassana" these days (as opposed to "doing the Vipassana? I don't know for sure).

I suppose this is could be a natural progression of the practice, from "doing it" to "letting it happen." Lord knows when I'm "doing the practice" I get quite a bit more agitated and uptight than when "practice is doing me."
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

Posts: 5375 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
I love it when the practice is doing me. emoticon
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Helen Pohl, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

Posts: 84 Join Date: 8/10/20 Recent Posts
Would it be correct to view that as progress?
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

Posts: 5375 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Helen Pohl:
Would it be correct to view that as progress?
View what as progress?
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Helen Pohl, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

Posts: 84 Join Date: 8/10/20 Recent Posts
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Helen Pohl:
Would it be correct to view that as progress?
View what as progress?

Ah, sorry, I was referring to the practice doing you instead of the other way around. =)
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

Posts: 5375 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
Helen Pohl:
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Helen Pohl:
Would it be correct to view that as progress?
View what as progress?

Ah, sorry, I was referring to the practice doing you instead of the other way around. =)

I think Chris had a helpful comment about that. I'm not sure that the work put in needs to be detail oriented, specifically, but it seems to be the case that the practice does you after you have put in work in the practice. Karma. So yeah, I guess, but thinking of it as progress can be a trap, especially if it makes you prone to fool yourself that the pactice is doing you when it's really time to put in the work. The right amount of effort can be a delicate balance. 
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

Posts: 1734 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
"The right amount of effort can be a delicate balance. "

But to be on the "safe side" better more effort than no effort emoticon 
However I would aim at Relaxed-Curious-Effort. 

I know efforting is looked at as something negative but effort will drop away on its own anyway at some stage, no reason to drop it too soon.


- from my limited experience that is emoticon 


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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

Posts: 5375 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
That's basically what I said in my reply to Hibiscus Kid, Papa Che, the one that seemed to upset you. emoticon
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Papa Che Dusko, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

Posts: 1734 Join Date: 3/1/20 Recent Posts
Repetition is the mother of all skills emoticon it's good we keep repeating each other emoticon 
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Helen Pohl, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

Posts: 84 Join Date: 8/10/20 Recent Posts
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Helen Pohl:
Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö:
Helen Pohl:
Would it be correct to view that as progress?
View what as progress?

Ah, sorry, I was referring to the practice doing you instead of the other way around. =)

I think Chris had a helpful comment about that. I'm not sure that the work put in needs to be detail oriented, specifically, but it seems to be the case that the practice does you after you have put in work in the practice. Karma. So yeah, I guess, but thinking of it as progress can be a trap, especially if it makes you prone to fool yourself that the pactice is doing you when it's really time to put in the work. The right amount of effort can be a delicate balance. 

Thanks! It's just that it seems more often than not that practice goes where it goes and I can only direct it so much. Sometimes, not at all.

I do feel that I can adjust the effort involved so that I don't slack off or do something else that's unproductive. But, it's just a feeling. =)
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Helen Pohl, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

Posts: 84 Join Date: 8/10/20 Recent Posts
I see a tiny frog above the guy in white. Can I be it?
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Chris Marti, modified 5 Months ago.

RE: One Sensation at a Time?

Posts: 3875 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
I suppose this is could be a natural progression of the practice, from "doing it" to "letting it happen." Lord knows when I'm "doing the practice" I get quite a bit more agitated and uptight than when "practice is doing me."

It was my vipassana practice, spent investigating detailed sensations and perceptions, that caused my practice to "take off" - to start happening on its own. As it worked out, doing certain practices caused the conditions that then let the practice do me. This wasn't an either/or process. It was a both process. Maybe there's a detailed meditation practice to be pursued, and then a meta practice that eventually results?