No center-AF Practice thread

No center-AF Practice thread Ross A. K. 9/29/11 10:23 PM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Tommy M 9/30/11 4:39 PM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Ross A. K. 10/8/11 12:30 AM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Ross A. K. 10/9/11 4:37 PM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Adam Bieber 10/10/11 12:00 AM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Tommy M 10/10/11 3:30 AM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Tommy M 10/10/11 3:38 AM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Ross A. K. 10/10/11 8:53 AM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Nikolai . 10/10/11 10:17 AM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread )( piscivorous 10/25/11 6:40 AM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Ross A. K. 11/1/11 10:24 PM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Andrew . 11/2/11 8:50 AM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Ross A. K. 11/3/11 10:32 PM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Ross A. K. 11/1/11 10:10 PM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Ross A. K. 10/22/11 1:14 AM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Ian Clarkson 10/22/11 5:23 AM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Ross A. K. 11/1/11 10:19 PM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Ross A. K. 11/7/11 12:36 PM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Ross A. K. 11/8/11 8:07 AM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Ross A. K. 11/10/11 11:36 AM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Ross A. K. 12/3/11 11:23 PM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread End in Sight 12/3/11 11:30 PM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Ross A. K. 1/12/12 3:23 PM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Ross A. K. 1/15/12 1:04 PM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Ross A. K. 1/16/12 12:31 PM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Ross A. K. 1/17/12 12:44 PM
RE: No center-AF Practice thread Ross A. K. 1/20/12 12:45 PM
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Ross A K, modified 10 Years ago at 9/29/11 10:23 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 9/29/11 5:18 PM

No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 123 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
I decided to start an AF practice thread. this is an email I sent Nikoli the other day. I was awaiting a reply and just figured I may as well jut start this damn thing, so here it is.
I'm doing this AF/Jhanic arc/insight hybrid thing, and had a question about Nirodha samapatti.
1st I'm trying to debunk if I compounding at some point in the jahnic arc. up to 8th jhana is natural, but, going to the Pure land jhanas I am having trouble knowing for sure if its compounded or not. also (this would imply 3rd path) I wonder if i may be accessing NS. this may get debunked quick with the fallowing questions. does the sense of hearing shut off? I would think so. I hit a level of mind either in 8th jahna or PL5 (if its not compounded) where its hard to discern if I'm percipient of anything, less so than typical 8th jhana. 8th jhana seems clear yet not, while at the same time pleasant (equanimity pleasant) of course.
also I'm definitely out of the review stage of whatever path I last got, I think its 2nd path MCTB. there are rapid cycles and what seem to be cycles within cycles (fractals?). Im getting sick of jhanas and nanas never thought I'd say that. But, its always some type of being. I want off this raft! I dont want to come off like practice and life aren't joyful, they are, more than I ever could have imagined.
AF practice helps a lot, because I'm not so concerned with maps, states, and stages, when going for that, just being happy and harmless. I leave the monastery I'm living at in a week, and, am trying to decide if I should just do straight AF, keep up with the hybrid practice AF/jhana/insight, or get 4th path then do AF. I am getting PCE's they are short and usually while walking or sitting with eyes open. And, you were right having a PCE does clear up a lot of speculation/ semantic mental masturbation stuff.

Also lately Ive been getting head aches when trying to practice jhana. I had a blip like thing the other day and now witness is hard to dwell in (they may not be connected). I will sit there and sit there. it's peace full but, not any jhana. also things are shaking, as in objects in visual field (appear to be shaking) especially when i was doing some candle light kasina the other day. the candle appeared to be wobbling, and the back ground expanding and contracting.
when just pay attention to my senses at point of contact ee is frequent and easy and pce is short, sweat, center-less, vibrant fall colors. going for the pce seems most natural as I don't get the head aches with approach.

I apologize for the mess. typing is not my strong point. plus I'm going a little crazy right now. I leave Bhavana tomorrow after 6 months of residency and two paths (?)(at least one). I am so greatful to Daniel m. Ingram, The DHO, Kenneth Folk, Nikoli, Elena Joy, Bhante G, Bhavana Society, the pragmatic dharma movement, AF'ers, trees, sunshine, clouds, and mountains. thank you! thank you! thank you!
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Tommy M, modified 10 Years ago at 9/30/11 4:39 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 9/30/11 4:39 PM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 1199 Join Date: 11/12/10 Recent Posts
1st I'm trying to debunk if I compounding at some point in the jahnic arc. up to 8th jhana is natural, but, going to the Pure land jhanas I am having trouble knowing for sure if its compounded or not. also (this would imply 3rd path) I wonder if i may be accessing NS.

You go on a lot about getting into the PL jhanas and getting NS, why is this? The descriptions you gave before sounded like almost verbatim descriptions I've seen elsewhere which makes me think that a combination of intent and scripting are bringing about an experience which fits your expectations of what the PL jhanas feel like. It's not a criticism, I'll be straight with you as I don't think that just agreeing with you or confirming your speculation is helpful to your practice, whether or not you're accessing NS, the PL jhanas, or any other attainment will become clear if you can do the same thing repeatedly. There's some weird and very malleable territory from 4th jhana onwards and all manner of incredibly cool experiences are available with strong intent, so perhaps letting go of this idea for the moment and just focusing on accurate and precise practice would be more beneficial. Again, it's not a criticism, I know what it's like to get hung up on this sort of thing and I know how much hassle I caused myself through it.

I wonder if i may be accessing NS. this may get debunked quick with the fallowing questions. does the sense of hearing shut off?

The entire thing shuts down in NS, there is no memory of the cessation but the entrance and exit are very distinctive. As I said before, only repeatedly doing this again and again until you can incline the mind towards NS will tell you whether or not you've gotten 3rd path.

I hit a level of mind either in 8th jahna or PL5 (if its not compounded) where its hard to discern if I'm percipient of anything, less so than typical 8th jhana. 8th jhana seems clear yet not, while at the same time pleasant (equanimity pleasant) of course.

Could you describe what you experience here?

also I'm definitely out of the review stage of whatever path I last got, I think its 2nd path MCTB. there are rapid cycles and what seem to be cycles within cycles (fractals?)

How do you know you're out of the review stage? The "cycles within cycles" could be 2nd path, but perhaps not.

I am getting PCE's they are short and usually while walking or sitting with eyes open. And, you were right having a PCE does clear up a lot of speculation/ semantic mental masturbation stuff.

How do you know that these are PCE's? I ask because a lot of people mistake an EE for the PCE.

it's peace full but, not any jhana. also things are shaking, as in objects in visual field (appear to be shaking) especially when i was doing some candle light kasina the other day. the candle appeared to be wobbling, and the back ground expanding and contracting.

This is 2nd into 3rd jhana, it may be that doing them with the eyes open feels different.

As always, I could be wrong on any other points above but I err on the side of underestimation rather than overestimation.
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Ross A K, modified 10 Years ago at 10/8/11 12:30 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 10/8/11 12:30 AM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 123 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
I'm currently living at my dads sleeping on his sofa. My brother and the other folks that live here drink and play video games till early in the morning. Even during normal activity there is an awesome stillness. I'm just fine with spacing out and thinking no thoughts except for the recognition of what is here now.
Honestly I'm sick of labeling my experience in terms of this stage and that Jhana or nana. AF is obviously the next step for me.
I like to ride my bike and just feel the wind in my face, looking at the sky and the beautiful array of colors on the trees asking HAIETMOBA, same with walking.
EE still has center feeling tone PCE is no center just this, very vivid real feel no self type experience. I am mostly in EE with short periods of pce-ing. I most appreciate the advice on viewing the world with wide eyed wonder.
I have been unable to do Jhana for about a week and a half now. Center point that I used as witness point is not there anymore. I did have a small blip type thing go on in the afternoon of the first day this started. I stop and was like whoa what was that, then just thought, "huh, oh well". 1st day or two this happened I really tried to nail a Jhana. Just ended up with a headache. Then I would get up and walk around immediately in EE or PCE with asking HAIETMOBA only a few times.
I'm still gonna sit when I can. When I'm not sitting I am going to be doing direct mode of perception grounding and or AF practice.
Thanks for your thorough scrutiny, I wouldnt want it any other way.
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Ross A K, modified 10 Years ago at 10/9/11 4:37 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 10/9/11 4:31 PM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 123 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
Ok so this is how I try to induce a pce. This way of viewing expeience either ends up in EE or PCE.

I'm walking or talking, hearing, touching,tasting, smelling, whatever, I pose the question "where is the center", or is there a locality within my physical body that corresponds with the sensory input. This will result in witness. I then let witness dissolve here and now by posin the question HAIETMOBA. Usually gets to EE. Then I shorten HAIETMOBA to THIS MOMENT or just simply THIS. With attention to the whole visual field, or non specific sounds, the whole surface of skin. If I keep up with this, it usually results in pce. I think I may have had a pce las a couple of hours a month or two ago. Then again hat could have just been some high equanimity. Typically pce for me is 10-15 minutes or it will be quick flashes of pce-ing out of EE-ing

Im not handy with all the cool lingo yet, so if you spot something that has an af term for it let me know so I can make the connection with AF terminology.
Adam Bieber, modified 10 Years ago at 10/10/11 12:00 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 10/9/11 11:50 PM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 112 Join Date: 5/22/10 Recent Posts
Incredible Nipuna. Incredible, works like magic. Your eliminating the attention wave directly, therefore any other sensory issues are void and dissolve on their own (since attention wave to the bodily sensation dissolves). Attention to the whole visual field is key because it shows where the attention wave is limited and then helps to dissolve it. This paragraph is gold and got me a pce.
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Tommy M, modified 10 Years ago at 10/10/11 3:30 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 10/10/11 3:30 AM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 1199 Join Date: 11/12/10 Recent Posts
Attention to the whole visual field is key because it shows where the attention wave is limited and then helps to dissolve it

If you find this effective, try extending the attention to encompass the whole sensory field and not just the visual aspect. The attention wave/affective overlay/"stir of passions" is not limited to the visual field, although I can see (no pun intended) how it's easier to get a handle on but the inclusion of all the sense doors and their objects will reveal more subtleties to the thing which you may be missing. This is just what's working for me at present.
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Tommy M, modified 10 Years ago at 10/10/11 3:38 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 10/10/11 3:38 AM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 1199 Join Date: 11/12/10 Recent Posts
With attention to the whole visual field, or non specific sounds, the whole surface of skin. If I keep up with this, it usually results in pce. I think I may have had a pce las a couple of hours a month or two ago. Then again hat could have just been some high equanimity. Typically pce for me is 10-15 minutes or it will be quick flashes of pce-ing out of EE-ing

Im not handy with all the cool lingo yet, so if you spot something that has an af term for it let me know so I can make the connection with AF terminology

Sounds good, Ross. Could you describe your experience of the PCE in more detail, it seems fairly common for people to mistake a particularly refined EE for the PCE itself, I did it for quite a while before realizing that I've only really had two stable, full-blown PCE's in the last two years. This is what changed my practice so it may be worth having a healthy skepticism about your experience and exploring this further in case you're missing some subtle manifestation of being. If you're coming at the PCE from Equanimity then the sense of being is highly refined already so it's easy to miss what can be a very subtle layer of affect overlayed onto the experience.

Either way, hope it all continues to go well for you and I wouldn't worry too much about getting the AF terminology right, it seems that these practices and their results are describable in various ways without being tied to any one conceptual map.
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Ross A K, modified 10 Years ago at 10/10/11 8:53 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 10/10/11 8:53 AM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 123 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
I have only had one for sure full blown About a month ago. I was walking around a trail in a forested area and was asking HAIETMOBA with attention to the what ever was sensed at the pointbof contact. Most of the walk was EE, that I would call a very "equanimous witness" state. I just kept walking and looking around saying this, no this, and this with no me. Was saying things to my self like "no center" over and over in place of HAIETMOBA, to dissolve any center feel. Just when I let up on my efforting a little the center point inside the head and any feeling of being ness anywhere in the body completely went away. This was accompanied by non separateness presence to the trees and the leaves the sky and clouds. Images of this body were seen in the lower periphery visual field with astonishing sense of "thats not my body". At this point I let it "ride out on it's own". I may have said aloud, "this moment right now is perfect just the way it is" and kept thinking "wow". Aside from that was just, well, the pure concsiousness experience itself. This lasted for 10-15 minutes. I think Richard uses the phrase, " out from control" and that's how it was experienced, no controller, no cetrer, no surface, just this. Also have had PCE blips while talking. Words like "mind" would just seem utterly foriegn. I would say it but again like no being in here was speaking it.

I remember Nick saying something like, actually having a PCE would answer any skeptical questions (that may not be a verbatum quote). And yes experiencing that blew all the skepticism away.
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Nikolai , modified 10 Years ago at 10/10/11 10:17 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 10/10/11 10:17 AM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 1648 Join Date: 1/23/10 Recent Posts
Ross A. K.:
I have only had one for sure full blown About a month ago. I was walking around a trail in a forested area and was asking HAIETMOBA with attention to the what ever was sensed at the pointbof contact. Most of the walk was EE, that I would call a very "equanimous witness" state. I just kept walking and looking around saying this, no this, and this with no me. Was saying things to my self like "no center" over and over in place of HAIETMOBA, to dissolve any center feel. Just when I let up on my efforting a little the center point inside the head and any feeling of being ness anywhere in the body completely went away. This was accompanied by non separateness presence to the trees and the leaves the sky and clouds. Images of this body were seen in the lower periphery visual field with astonishing sense of "thats not my body". At this point I let it "ride out on it's own". I may have said aloud, "this moment right now is perfect just the way it is" and kept thinking "wow". Aside from that was just, well, the pure concsiousness experience itself. This lasted for 10-15 minutes. I think Richard uses the phrase, " out from control" and that's how it was experienced, no controller, no cetrer, no surface, just this. Also have had PCE blips while talking. Words like "mind" would just seem utterly foriegn. I would say it but again like no being in here was speaking it.

I remember Nick saying something like, actually having a PCE would answer any skeptical questions (that may not be a verbatum quote). And yes experiencing that blew all the skepticism away.


There ya go. Now let it fuel pure intent, right view and right effort.
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Ross A K, modified 10 Years ago at 10/22/11 1:14 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 10/22/11 1:14 AM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 123 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
Does anyone have any experience with practicing actualism while driving? I recently started back driving a city bus and am finding it a great joy asking HAIETMOBA while at work, as it makes for much better customer service, and overall happiness and harmlessness. There has been no pce-ing while driving as of yet but quite a bit of EE.
I also attend a meditation group once a week (this is the only time I meditate). I find it very easy to get very good concentration even though I don't have a daily samatha or vipassana practice anymore. Being firmly grounded in this moment often makes for a smooth transition into formal samatha/vipassana meditation. The focus is investigating the very being ness feeling, where I experience the "center" of consciousness. And then letting that center dissolve by asking HAIETMOBA. So basically trying to induce a pce with eyes closed.
I am having trouble in putting what is happening in my practice into words on this practice thread. Any suggestions on how to more effectively do a practice thread would be appreciated. There have been a lot of times that I wanted to post something, but didn't feel that I could adequately describe it. Maybe this is related to some form of being to self conscious and wanting to sound right or smart(?).
Thanks
Ross
Ian Clarkson, modified 10 Years ago at 10/22/11 5:23 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 10/22/11 5:23 AM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 5 Join Date: 1/11/11 Recent Posts
Yes, Just the other day I was driving whilst in EE, it was very cool, the most noticable thing was a complete lack of leaning toward a destination, or anticipation of getting to the destination, which I experience as similar to the bracing katy has mentioned.
This came with a quality of security in the body being always right here, and made a great shift of perspective because whilst driving things are going on around, rather than me going around, which led to being able to truly and immediately return to a happy and harmless state at will.
Also was a sense of everything that is apparent to this body is already noted, so who am I feeling for? The need for feelings was completely gone, and thus and few feelings that arose were shrugged off with ease. It was obvious that all that is happening is sometimes I am tense when I could just as easily be relaxed.
It was brilliant, and continues to be so.
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)( piscivorous, modified 10 Years ago at 10/25/11 6:40 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 10/23/11 7:00 AM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 36 Join Date: 12/8/10 Recent Posts
Ross A. K.:
I'm walking or talking, hearing, touching,tasting, smelling, whatever, I pose the question "where is the center", or is there a locality within my physical body that corresponds with the sensory input. This will result in witness. I then let witness dissolve here and now by posin the question HAIETMOBA. Usually gets to EE. Then I shorten HAIETMOBA to THIS MOMENT or just simply THIS. With attention to the whole visual field, or non specific sounds, the whole surface of skin. If I keep up with this, it usually results in pce. I think I may have had a pce las a couple of hours a month or two ago. Then again hat could have just been some high equanimity. Typically pce for me is 10-15 minutes or it will be quick flashes of pce-ing out of EE-ing


Great stuff, I missed this when you posted it. After grinding around in 1st gear (an homage to KFD ;) ) yesterday, I went for a HAIETMOBA walk and practiced this technique. While it didn't spawn an EE/PCE this time, it did give me a sense of the witness. (So far my EEs have been spontaneous since practicing HAIETMOBA. Eerily, I will notice the world lit up and glowing. These only last 15 minutes or so.) Anyhow, I'll keep at it. Thanks for this thread.

cheers, Matt

EDIT: spelling
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Ross A K, modified 10 Years ago at 11/1/11 10:10 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 11/1/11 10:10 PM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 123 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
I've been slacking a little bit. Although every day I ask HAIETMOBA at least once. Recently a friend was talking to me about the laws of attraction. It seems as though looking at this moment right now as being perfect is a form of that. As I keep that in mind life experiences are perfect more often. So this seeing the perfection of this moment fuels pure intent, to be happy and harmless.

Going back into the workforce requires me to be more vigilant with applying an actuallism inspired practice. Also the law of attraction stuff helps me to realize that complaining about anything in life does me no good and actually creates/reiforces the very things I happen to be complaining about. Like the other day I was feeling really down about living at my dads and being broke. Then the thought occurred to me in the form of a question, " why is this moment right now not perfect, and HAIETMOBA ". And, as I rode my bike, with no specific destination in mind, an awesome clarity filled my mind EE then short pce. The amount of time it took to switch from sorrow to happiness was astonishing. I'd say it took around 5 minutes to pce-ing. Is this what is meant by nievete? Giving happiness or better yet perfection the benifit of the doubt.

Thanks all for your input! And Congratulations Tommy M. emoticon! Yes if you can do it so can I!
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Ross A K, modified 10 Years ago at 11/1/11 10:19 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 11/1/11 10:19 PM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

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Sounds great the only thing with my job as a bus driver I have a specific destination. The boss doesn't like it when we make up our own route. Thank you for your input emoticon!
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Ross A K, modified 10 Years ago at 11/1/11 10:24 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 11/1/11 10:24 PM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 123 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
Ahh yes this brings up a question. What does one do when what was working in the past to get EE/PCE is no longer working as well or not at all?
Maybe trying to get in a pce by brute force so to say without nievete?
I now I've read something discussed along these lines before so any advice or links are appreciated.

And, thank you )( piscivorous!
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Andrew , modified 10 Years ago at 11/2/11 8:50 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 11/2/11 8:50 AM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

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Tarin mentions getting stuck at some point and not getting further with it, so he went back to the progress of insight practice. He briefly says something about it in the hurricane ranch recordings.
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Ross A K, modified 10 Years ago at 11/3/11 10:32 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 11/3/11 10:32 PM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

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Ahh yes I just listened to the 2nd part of the talks again good stuff. I think I'm back on track now emoticon!

Here are some random notes I've made over the last week and some quotes I find useful.

Negative/adverse affect
Irritability 
Tightness in solar plexus area 
tensing of breathing
 increased or decreased breathing
- decrease breathing along with tension in mid torso
- rapid breathing with jitteriness, anxiety

Wordlessly saying "I want" 
Wordlessness is a result of not knowing
When I "say it's name" it dissipates in the light of awareness.
 
Pure intent reminds me of the wording of the sixth step of alcoholics anonymous, " became entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character" it's the "entirely ready" part where I find the similarity.

proprioception is a term that Thanisarro Bhikkhu uses in his talks referring to the sense of the breath energy in the body. This same idea is expressed in Kenneth folk instructions in direct mode of perception grounding technique. And Richard uses the term on the AFT site talking about apperception as fallows, 

RESPONDENT: You always are covering behind the word ‘apperceptively aware’.
RICHARD: If that is how you see what I report then apparently nothing I can further say is going to alter that conclusion.
RESPONDENT: How you know you are alive?
RICHARD: Sensately ... ... I have written about this to you twice before. Here is an excerpt:
• [Richard]: ‘... if one were to close the eyes one will find there is a sensing, or perception, of being oriented in space (of space all around including behind the body) ... and this has as much to do with balance, acceleration and/or rotation in space, orientation in a gravity field (if there be one) as it has to do with the proprioceptive senses proper in the muscles, tendons, and joints.
The proprioceptive senses are part of the somatic sensory system (somaesthesis/ somaesthesia) which is the faculty of bodily perception (sensory systems associated with the body) and includes skin senses (cutaneous receptors for hot/cold, pressure, physical pleasure/pain, for example) and the internal organs sensors (cardiovascular or circulatory receptors for blood pressure, heart rate, and carbon dioxide and digestive tract receptors for hunger and thirst, for instance) as well as the equilibrium sense, or sense of balance, already mentioned.
Thus proprioception is the ability to sense the position and location and orientation and movement of the body, and its parts, because of the proprioceptors in the muscles, tendons, and joint capsules (in combination with the sense of balance, acceleration and/or rotation in space, and orientation in a gravitational field, of the inner ear or vestibular organ).
In other words: the sense of being here, in space, as a body is not just because of sight (visual perception), sound (auditory perception), touch (cutaneous perception), smell (olfactory perception), and taste (gustatory perception). (Re: For Richard; May 31, 2003).
RESPONDENT: Do you have any other mean except thought to know it?
RICHARD: Yes ... you will see, upon re-reading my response (above), that I clearly say the sense of being here, in space, as a body is not just because of sight (visual perception), sound (auditory perception), touch (cutaneous perception), smell (olfactory perception), and taste (gustatory perception) but proprioception as well.
And sensory perception is what consciousness is at its most basic ... perception means consciousness (aka awareness). Vis.:
• ‘perception: the state of being or process of becoming aware or conscious of a thing, spec. through any of the senses; the faculty of perceiving; an ability to perceive; [synonyms: (...) awareness, consciousness]. (Oxford Dictionary).
And consciousness means sentience. Vis.:
• ‘sentience: the condition or quality of being sentient; consciousness, susceptibility to sensation’. (Oxford Dictionary).
And sentience is direct, immediate (sensate perception is primary; affective perception is secondary; cognitive perception is tertiary).


This apperceptiveness is not new to my practice. And specifically the proprioception Is almost a daily used tool. I guess I'm just saying I feel like I'm on the right track here.
Also Tarin talked about tracing back feelings which I would like a little bit more input on if anyone would care to comment on that.
Thanks - Ross
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Ross A K, modified 10 Years ago at 11/7/11 12:36 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 11/7/11 12:36 PM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 123 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
I've taken up the practice of not complaining about anything in life. Even in my thoughts. Complaining is not pure intent to be happy and harmless free from malice and sorrow. Some things I find especially joyous are greeting people that board my bus irregardless of any personal opinion, business man or bum. Maybe a societal nievete?

So I get this engine running with HAIETMOBA and attentiveness to sensuousness leading to EE or PCE. Then the lubrication is my thoughts and actions based on pure intent. I don't know if that makes sense to you all, it's a work in progress. I'm trying to have it make good sense to me. I want to understand how this engine runs.

Oh another funny thing. When somebody asks, "how are you doing?" I want to smile real big and say, "perfect" or at least a enthusiastic, "great". But I contain myself and say, " good". I have said, "perfect" as response a few times and got rolling eyes, shaking heads or raised eye brow lol! My favorite thing to do is live the life I live! What a joy it is to be one this path to an actual freedom!
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Ross A K, modified 10 Years ago at 11/8/11 8:07 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 11/8/11 8:07 AM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 123 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
I have a genuine interest/ investment in my freedom. Yes. But, I wonder do I check this forum just for selfish reasons. I mean to see who has looked at my thread or I should say how many more. Or if anyone has responded. I reminded my self that this being here is the only one who can apply a method to freedom, and is the only person who can experience freedom. It comes down to me investigating my intentions, motives, actions, reactions - asking HAIETMOBA taking it all in, the experience of this. It's so simple it's easy to overlook.

I remember my first interview with Bhante Gunaratana, in 2004. I walk in to the interview with nothing really in mind to ask, I had so much stuff up in my brain, I blabbered on, quickly eating up the short 15 minutes. I felt kinda pissed that he was sitting there with his eyes closed, lol. Then he looks up at the clock and says oh we gotta go were out of time. So I thought quick, "how do I get over lust". His response, " you meditate on letting go". The simplicity of that answer made my head hurt, and for years I thought of it like a koan. And now after lived with the man for 6 months, I believe he was doing the best he could do with the storm of confusion I was spewing.

Blah blah blah

Hope all you are having a great day!
Peace - Ross
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Ross A K, modified 10 Years ago at 11/10/11 11:36 AM
Created 10 Years ago at 11/10/11 11:36 AM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 123 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
I'm attending this seminar this weekend.
http://www.emmatrix.com/chicago/

I participated in a 1 hour webinar with this woman. She started out with a kinda body scan relaxation thing then into something similar to direct mode. Her big thing is not viewing anything as negative but seeing a message in physical or mental phenomena to ultimately realize ones "full potential" as she puts it. I think this is yet another way to look at what I'm already doing with different trigger phrases and emphasized focus on areas I may be over looking. I let you all know how it goes. And if anybody already know about this let me know. I hope they serve cherry kool aid lol!
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Ross A K, modified 10 Years ago at 12/3/11 11:23 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 12/3/11 11:23 PM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 123 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
So I did my first sit at home since I've been back for 40 minutes Anapanasati/witness. Really haven't lost much ability.
I'm questioning a lot lately what has really changed. I'm frustrated that through all this practice I've come back home and told lies and my sexual tendencies are still present.
I've knocked out and or changed/eliminated some core patterns with the new technologies I learned at the seminar in Chicago. the woman that headed the seminar is a Tony Robbins certified master trainer. Main point is that all emotions are simply information and if we can recognize how they have served our highest good then we can change them or eliminate them. A tipical change the matrix session is around an hour and is done while one is in a so called trance state. One then adresses the emotion as if it were just another person. Once one has seen boh the upside and he downside to the particular emotion on can then proceed to either letting that pattern/emotion transforming into a new pattern for even higher levels of service or letting it leave entirely. Its very interesting that her discriptions of what she calls the matrix is probably the best explanations of dependant origination I've ever heard. And the cool thing is she's never heard of dependant origination or any other buddhist methodoligy for tha matter. More to come on this process later
End in Sight, modified 10 Years ago at 12/3/11 11:30 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 12/3/11 11:30 PM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 1251 Join Date: 7/6/11 Recent Posts
Ross A. K.:
ts very interesting that her discriptions of what she calls the matrix is probably the best explanations of dependant origination I've ever heard.


Looking forward to hearing about it.
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Ross A K, modified 10 Years ago at 1/12/12 3:23 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/12/12 3:23 PM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 123 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
Hello everyone,
I've been kinda out of anytype of formal practice for a bit dwelling in a lot of direct mode stuff combined with just coasting! My interest in practice has been revived and Im doing a daily sitting. 20 - 40 minute sits. I listened to all of the hurricane ranch talks the three part getting it done versus doing it and the AF one with Dan And Tarin. So I'm simply sitting and seeing through core processes incorporating proprioceptive awareness in with felicity and haietmoba. Also still doing the change the matrix core transformation emotional work with patterns that I notice around finances or social anxiety what have you. I know I said I was gonna provide some more extensive info on that and well I've been slacking.
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Ross A K, modified 10 Years ago at 1/15/12 1:04 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/15/12 1:04 PM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 123 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
RICHARD: What you say about parinibbana – physical death – is right on the ball. (I also appreciate your confirmation that a PCE is not one iota short of that of cessation).
The main point of this particular email exchange of mine was to explicate how meditative practices do not result in a state sans the affections which can be lived in everyday life (as in living/ breathing, eating/ drinking, urinating/ defecating, walking/ talking, typing emails, and so on and so forth) as the affective faculty remains in situ – albeit somewhat rarefied – in nibbana.
As a means of obtaining peace on earth a never-ending nirodh is entirely useless as it would also result in the body wasting away until its inevitable physical death.
It would mean species extinction were all 6.5 billion peoples alive today ever to do what these bronze-age/ iron-age scriptures exhort them to do.
(Which is the whole point of Buddhism, of course, as Buddhists do not want to be here:
1. Life sucks big-time;
2. Being born is the pits;
3. Escapism is cool;
4. The eight-step programme is tops).
And dilettantes – flush with scraps of very superficial book-learnt misrepresentations – who know not what it is they are promoting are the metaphysical equivalents of what Mr. Joseph Stalin called ‘useful idiots’ (in regards the spread of communism via a transitional socialism) as the western world embraces more and more of what is spreading out from the eastern world all the way around the globe.
- Richard

I got a good laugh out of this. I'm glad I read this because it dispelled my contempt prior to investigation that Richard knows nothing of Buddhism!
I have been asking haietmoba since awakening this morning and going back through the AF site to clarify some things.
Short pce this morning and a lot of EE whilst driving bus. And almost continual nievete. I think I'm back on board with this.
Oh and one more thing, what the heck is bloody-mindedness? Sorry I live in Des Moines, IA and that's not at all a familiar Figure of speech emoticon.
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Ross A K, modified 10 Years ago at 1/16/12 12:31 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/16/12 12:31 PM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 123 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
Something that has bothered me ever since I left the Bhavana society is, at the last question and answer session of the retreat that was going on during my last week there, someone asked Bhante G. what the experience of stream entry was like. His response was that he had yet to experience this and when he does experience it he would let us know. I don't know if he was just lying or what. Is he just a nice old man that knows Pali ? I mean no disrespect as I consider him a great friend. I have never been in direct contact with someone who didnt even blink when I sat in the room with him. I would walk in for the weekly meeting (I was on the ordination path and memorizing suttas) he would say what have you memorized this week and I would start. It almost brings a tear to my eye now just thinking about it. His quick responses to my meditation question just seamed way to quick for someone who wasnt even a stream enterer.
Honestly a huge part of me feels somewhat bitter about some of his reactions. Especially when explaining my attainment of stream entry. I told him what happened and that with this new paradigm I lost my desire to ordain. He went dogmatic and said if I had attained that I should want to ordain even more. I just wanted to be heard ya know. I mean if it was bullshit he could have told me that based on my reporting of the actual experience. But it was like he shut down as soon as I stated my claim.


The honest truth I don't think I ever wanted to ordain. I just wanted a damn solution. And, I believed the dogmatic hype. When the real deal , I mean stream entry, was realized, the absolute accessibility of freedom was seen, sceptical doubt that this guy named Ross could actually finish this, was annihilated. Who needs robes!
Anyway here I am today pushing onwards toward freedom and true real wholsome happiness and harmlessness.
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Ross A K, modified 10 Years ago at 1/17/12 12:44 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/17/12 12:44 PM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 123 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
http://www.dhammatalks.org/Archive/0211n3a1%20Steps%20of%20Breath%20Meditation,%20The.mp3
Probably my favorite of thanissaro's talks on anapanasati. Think proprioceptive awareness with step four
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Ross A K, modified 10 Years ago at 1/20/12 12:45 PM
Created 10 Years ago at 1/20/12 12:45 PM

RE: No center-AF Practice thread

Posts: 123 Join Date: 6/15/11 Recent Posts
Nobody else can answer, " how am I experiencing this moment of being alive?".
Nobody else can experience this moment that I am experiencing being alive. Without the politics and considering just this question itself is key to experiencing this moment of being alive purely and actually as it is. No need for AF lingo or DHO lingo or any lingo. Only the sensual experience of this moment! Vicarious presupposition set to rest! Fallowing left behind, leading passed up! Alive I am.