Intense vertigo, Panic attacks in daily life

Aleks Bykhun, modified 1 Year ago at 11/27/22 6:27 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 11/27/22 6:27 AM

Intense vertigo, Panic attacks in daily life

Posts: 5 Join Date: 5/30/22 Recent Posts
tl;dr
Get crazy effects last few weeks, worry a lot if I am literally dying. Can't work, mood swings, long panic attacks, frequent intense vertigos.

Meditation Timeline:

- LSD no-self experience in 2020 (might be A&P?)
- mild anxiety, fear of death ever since
- Kundalini awakening on Tantra retreat January this year
- Goenka Vipassana retreat in May this year – learned to notice visual vibrations (A&P?) (also see my previous post More links in the bottom)
- practicing vipassana according to u/onthatpath (based on early buddhism, simiar to Shinzen "do nothing", "open awareness")
- weird vertigo first time I tried it (2 hours into the meditation), June this year
- 1-2h sits about twice per week, but very irregular, in bursts "lets finally do it!"
- had a lot of "wake up" moments during my sits, feels like I have fallen asleep, but then been re-invoked, usually by outside stimuli

Phenomenology:
- i have no assosiation with my body
- there is "me" inside my head, but if i look close enough, i can't locate it, so it kinda goes "nevermind"
- there is a "doer", but I can "tune out" and let my body move automatically. I can speak and even type without thinking that somebody moves my fingers, they just move by themselves
- i can't see thoughts as objects: i can either get lost in them, or stop them
- most of the emotions are not me, i can usually talk to them vs talk through them
- i am usually much happier and more sensitive person; can handle very hard emotions, and communicate effectively. people seem to like me more. don't get into fights or easily withdraw from them.
- when in a right mood, can concentrate really well for long periods of time without getting distracted

My Problems:
1. Panic attacks
2. Phantom pains
3. Intense vertigos in daily life

Panic attacks

They started in October, first episode was after I smoked some weed while I was very tired. After the hit, I fell down  on the ground and got really scared about this. I have felt tremor and weakness in my body. My mind was somehow crystal clear, but very-very scared. Bad trip continued in waves for more than a day, up until the next evening.

Second big episode was in November, while sober. I woke up with a weird feeling (like LSD microdose), and mild baseline fear. After some tea, in one moment I have felt that "my stomach has fallen somewhere and I can't catch it", which threw me into fear spiral. I would get waves ranging from "i am literally dying" to "wait i am just high on meditation".

Previous evening I have tried fire kasina practice for the first time, and enjoyed it.

Since then, it's been happening almost daily. Usually it is there after I eat a lot, or when I am hungry. I was also diagnosed and in treatment of a parasite infection, which might be connected.

It would kinda disappear when my life gets more interesting, and when I have some hope for the future. Also it kinda goes away if some challenges are there, ones I am interested in taking on.
 
Objectively, I got tremor, weakness and vertigo. It's getting really hard to take decisions, sometimes even hard to speak. However, again, my mind is feeling crystal clear, i got no nausea or seasickness.

Last episode was today. In my dream, somebody gave me LSD, I took it, and fallen into the same mild anxiety mode. I woke up with the same feeling and it went on for a few hours, and slowly been fading away.

As I am writing this, I range between "it's all gonna be okay" to "shit I am gonna die in a few days"

Vertigo

First time doing this specific vipassana technique (2 hours in), I got intense vertigo in my meditation. My body felt like it has started spinning really fast and has split into two parts. This continued for about a minute and slowly stopped. But the body was "split" even afterwards. This was in June this year.

After that, I would get these vertigos in my daily life after I would say something truthful which I was really holding back for a long time. Talking about my dark stuff out loud, talking to my SO and to my parents would invoke this feeling a lot. 

At the same time, I don't physically lose balance when it happens, even if it's really intense or if I am walking.

I have associated this vertigos with progress, so I have been "expecting" and "welcoming" them. 

As I have been writing this, I have got about ten of them.

Phantom Pains

Appeared at same time as panic; They are locations in my body, they are asymmetrical, size of a coin, but in the form of a glass shard. They are quite stable, exist for a few days, then move location and appear somewhere else. I can reinvoke old locations if I focus on them.

They mostly feel as if I have just hit my head into a doorway.

Locations:
- Top of the head, a bit to the left.
- Back on the head, where the neck starts, on the right
- Side of a Left bicep
- Front of the Left cheek
- Teeth
- etc

In general, I get a lot of piti, including static energy, flowing energy, energy "strikes", teeth vibrating, tingles, cold shivers. However, this one is very unpleasant, and feels more real than other manifestations.

Medicine

I have been to a doctor. They have found a parasite infection, I am at my 7/15 day of treatment. The weird thing that stood out is my blood pressure is 140/100.

General practitioner is not sure about vertigos, she says it's probably from stress, so I am planning to visit neurologist again. Last year they told me it is from stress.

Personal

I am really scared about where I am leading my life right now.

I am lucky that I can afford to take a long vacation. But if it all continues into January, I have no idea how to pay the bills. I am seriously considering just living in Goenka Vipassana retreat centre, haha.

I am abroad right now. I have been traveling since August. I have friends here, but no permanent home. I am from Ukraine, and I decided it's not wise to come back right now.

I have some issues with insurance. I am not sure if the coverage is still active. I most probably can't afford hospitalization or even expensive tests like MRI etc.

If I am not back on track soon, my company is most probably dead. I feel a lot of guilt, but I decided it's not helpful, so I let it go. Which still doesn't help given I have no idea how to make money.

My productivity haven't been perfect ever since May, but last month I have just literally stopped working. It helped with my mental state, but obviously hasn't helped with financials.

Sorry for wailing, obviously it's not a forum for therapy or coaching, that's the stuff I should handle myself. Sharing this one only for context.

My Question?

I guess what I am looking for is:
- if everyone had similar experience with insight practice
- how real can "dark night" get? why do I get objectively scary symptoms?
- is this a "fight through it" moment or am I missing a piece of a puzzle?
- would love some support and reassurance from people who've been through some dark stuff!

More Links
My post from half a year ago (feels like it was yesterday!):
https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/23923989

People describing similar effects:
https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/22253151
https://www.dharmaoverground.org/discussion/-/message_boards/message/23271939
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Oatmilk, modified 1 Year ago at 11/27/22 10:00 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 11/27/22 9:54 AM

RE: Intense vertigo, Panic attacks in daily life

Posts: 141 Join Date: 7/30/20 Recent Posts
Hi Aleks, 

I can relate to all of what you are describing. Though, has the intensity been building up over the course of a few weeks/months? 

Unfortunately I cannot guess what's going on in your case as the information provided is not sufficient enough. 

First of all though, I would suggest to stop all sorts of intoxication and meditation practice. 

Regarding the following, this is not medical advice. 
-
In regards to the phantom pain, as long as there is no structural issue at the level of functionality I would say don't bother too much about it. 

In regards to the vertigo, I experienced the same over the course of several months. I knew the causes for this sort of condition though, so I didn't make much out of it. 
In any case, you might better see a cardiologist. 

In regards to the panic attacks it would be interesting to know if it follows a pattern. E.g. it starts with a sensation, the mind grasps on to that, then the nervous system intensifies the adverse reaction, vice versa. 
Or does it simply stay at the level of the mind and is just a fear? 

However, what usually helps is somatic therapy. Craneo sacral therapy and somatic experiencing tend to work really well in all the above mentioned cases. 
You could also train your vagus through breathing exercises. You breath in deeply, then release the breath slowly, breathing through pursed lips. Practice this for 20-40mins/day over the course of a month and you should be able to regulate yourself much better. 

Are you still seeing friends by the way? Co-regulation can be tremendous helpful, so don't isolate yourself too much. Forward movement with the eyes slighty looking towards the ground also suppresses the amygdalas fear response. Long walks are therefore recommended. 

​​​​​​​Get well! 
Isak Tougaard, modified 1 Year ago at 11/27/22 5:13 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 11/27/22 5:13 PM

RE: Intense vertigo, Panic attacks in daily life

Posts: 17 Join Date: 11/9/22 Recent Posts
Man, that's a lot to go through. Hope you will get better soon.

I can't tell at all what causes your symptoms, but I may have a few zero cost ideas that can provide a sort of "first aid" for you.

Vertigo: I was taught this by gymnasts, and told it is also what firstresponders have people do: Sit or lie relaxed and stable, and focus your gaze on one clearly defined point, like the edge of a lamp or corner of a room. Keep staring at that spot, like it owes you a lot of money, for a few minutes. This should reduce or eliminate the dizziness.

Pain: There is a chance you can alleviate these by massaging triggerpoints. See the website triggerpoints.net, and use their "map" to find muscles that can cause pain in the area you experience it.
If you have been sitting ramrod straight on retreat for a long time, it stands to reason that you could have built up  significant muscle tension.

Panic attacks:
- Do you ingest any amount of caffeine at all on a daily basis? This is the first thing a psychiatric ward would ask you. Some people have a funky reaction to it, and some are very sensitive to it, other still burn out and become crazy stressed from it. Might be worth trying to cut it out.
- Hypercapnic breathing (breathing to increase CO2 retention) can reduce anxiety and even stop panic attacks. Everyone seems to have heard of bag breathing, and this is the mechanism behind it. You dont need a bag though, just a technique called "breathe light to breathe right".
Of course practice this before getting a panic attack.
If you habitually breathe through the mouth, that can also correlate strongly with anxiety and panic attacks. I know it sounds too simple, but it really is true!
- If the panic is from stress (and it sure sounds like it), I would use pregnenolone or allo-pregnenolone for that. They are the safest, most anxiolytic things I have ever found. Can be sourced from suchlabs or idealabsdc.com/lab (am not affiliated, am not a doctor, do your research and come to your own conclusions).

Hope some of this can help you mend up.
Aleks Bykhun, modified 1 Year ago at 11/28/22 11:20 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 11/28/22 11:20 PM

RE: Intense vertigo, Panic attacks in daily life

Posts: 5 Join Date: 5/30/22 Recent Posts
Thanks for your reply, Oatmilk!

I can relate to all of what you are describing. Though, has the intensity been building up over the course of a few weeks/months?
Yes, it did. First vertigo was almost a year ago (probably from coffee). First panic attack was a few months ago. Panic attacks become regular in a few days after I practiced fire kasina for the first time.

In regards to the phantom pain, as long as there is no structural issue at the level of functionality I would say don't bother too much about it. 
Well, some of the pains are in my head, that's what got me scared the first time.

In regards to the panic attacks it would be interesting to know if it follows a pattern. E.g. it starts with a sensation, the mind grasps on to that, then the nervous system intensifies the adverse reaction, vice versa. 
Or does it simply stay at the level of the mind and is just a fear? 
Yes, it usually starts with a sensation. Most recent big episode started in my sleep. Some of them start when I wake up. Most of them start with a crawling feeling in my stomach (most probably caused by parasite I am in treatment from).

But yeah, also some of them (mostly light ones) are triggered by me reading someone's message.

When I can identify the trigger, usually it helps me to relax quickly. The most horrible ones are "I don't understand why it has started, and I am probably about to die".

Are you still seeing friends by the way?
Yes, I try to see friends. Thought some of interactions with "wrong" people cause me to stress too much




 
Aleks Bykhun, modified 1 Year ago at 11/28/22 11:29 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 11/28/22 11:29 PM

RE: Intense vertigo, Panic attacks in daily life

Posts: 5 Join Date: 5/30/22 Recent Posts
 Thanks, Isak Tougaard!
Do you ingest any amount of caffeine at all on a daily basis?
Yes, I did drink a lot for the last year, and in October I was drinking up to three cups a day.

Recently, no, but I accidentally drank some tea with caffeine a few days ago, just before the last episode. However, few days has passed, and I still haven't come down.

- Hypercapnic breathing (breathing to increase CO2 retention) can reduce anxiety and even stop panic attacks. Everyone seems to have heard of bag breathing, and this is the mechanism behind it. You dont need a bag though, just a technique called "breathe light to breathe right".
Thanks, will try it! I didn't find any good guide on youtube, maybe you have a link handy? Is this one good? https://youtu.be/jWNMVSZrIbQ

Is the idea to make CO2 blood levels higher to make parasympathetic system activate?
- If the panic is from stress (and it sure sounds like it), I would use pregnenolone or allo-pregnenolone for that. They are the safest, most anxiolytic things I have ever found. Can be sourced from suchlabs or idealabsdc.com/lab (am not affiliated, am not a doctor, do your research and come to your own conclusions).
Thank you very much!


 
Isak Tougaard, modified 1 Year ago at 11/29/22 12:24 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 11/28/22 11:59 PM

RE: Intense vertigo, Panic attacks in daily life

Posts: 17 Join Date: 11/9/22 Recent Posts
I'm very glad you asked, because using a plastic bag like that guy does can kill you!
If using a bag, make sure it's paper.

This one is better: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CdPpV32cM0I
TL;DR: Only breathe through nose, soften your breath, and maintain a mild "airhunger"/breathlessness. Do for 10 minutes with focus.

Read more at Patrick McKeowns book "Oxygen Advantage" if you want to nerd out on the physiology behind it.


Let us know how you get along with the things we suggested, and if you need further support or suggestions.
You will get through this.
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Oatmilk, modified 1 Year ago at 11/29/22 1:38 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 11/29/22 1:38 PM

RE: Intense vertigo, Panic attacks in daily life

Posts: 141 Join Date: 7/30/20 Recent Posts
Hmh, I'd suggest seeing a doctor if it should get worse, or you are in doubt. Seems all really nervous system related, if it was me, I would attribute it to the practice. Though as I said, I am not a physician. 
Somatic experiencing etc. can help in this regard. 

All the best emoticon 

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