How is accepting dissatisfaction SO fulfilling...?

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Aeon , modified 1 Year ago at 1/31/23 2:36 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/31/23 2:36 PM

How is accepting dissatisfaction SO fulfilling...?

Posts: 212 Join Date: 1/31/23 Recent Posts
Ever since I read MCTB, and learned of the characteristic of dissatisfaction, I find it so oddly satisfying to investigate how everything is dissatisfying.

I can't help but wonder if I am doing it wrong, or if it's supposed to work this way?

Perhaps it could make sense, if I accept everything is dissatisfying, I no longer grasp or cling, but why does it fill me with content and bliss?
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Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö, modified 1 Year ago at 1/31/23 9:10 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/31/23 9:10 PM

RE: How is accepting dissatisfaction SO fulfilling...?

Posts: 7134 Join Date: 12/8/18 Recent Posts
You are not doing it wrong. You are doing it just right. Congrats! You are noticing how there can be joy/peace/ananda regardless of conditions. You are cutting the chains of dependent origination. 
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Aeon , modified 1 Year ago at 2/2/23 10:35 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 2/2/23 10:35 AM

RE: How is accepting dissatisfaction SO fulfilling...?

Posts: 212 Join Date: 1/31/23 Recent Posts
Thanks!<br />It felt like I had shortcircuited something in my mind. Glad to know it's a good sign.
T DC, modified 1 Year ago at 1/31/23 9:32 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 1/31/23 9:32 PM

RE: How is accepting dissatisfaction SO fulfilling...?

Posts: 517 Join Date: 9/29/11 Recent Posts
Great job!  It's also important to note that the three characteristics are simply three different ways of conceptualizing the "ultimate" appearance of phenomena.  Thus they are more three fingers pointing at the moon than three ultimate phenomena in themselves.  It's great you are appreciating their contemplation, but also remember they are but guideposts on the path, and ultimately the experience they are pointing to lies beyond conceptualization.  ;)
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Aeon , modified 1 Year ago at 2/2/23 10:38 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 2/2/23 10:38 AM

RE: How is accepting dissatisfaction SO fulfilling...?

Posts: 212 Join Date: 1/31/23 Recent Posts
T DC
Great job!  It's also important to note that the three characteristics are simply three different ways of conceptualizing the "ultimate" appearance of phenomena.  Thus they are more three fingers pointing at the moon than three ultimate phenomena in themselves.  It's great you are appreciating their contemplation, but also remember they are but guideposts on the path, and ultimately the experience they are pointing to lies beyond conceptualization.  ;)


This really landed with me, thanks for sharing this.
I had been wondering if the proper way of doing insight meditation would be to pour all concentration into observing the three characteristics, or if would be more efficient to deepen the state (for lack of a better word) that they cause.
It appears the second way gets best results, and if I understand correctly, is also what you advise.
T DC, modified 1 Year ago at 2/2/23 8:49 PM
Created 1 Year ago at 2/2/23 8:49 PM

RE: How is accepting dissatisfaction SO fulfilling...?

Posts: 517 Join Date: 9/29/11 Recent Posts
Aeon ........This really landed with me, thanks for sharing this.
I had been wondering if the proper way of doing insight meditation would be to pour all concentration into observing the three characteristics, or if would be more efficient to deepen the state (for lack of a better word) that they cause.
It appears the second way gets best results, and if I understand correctly, is also what you advise.

There's no one best way to do it, and how much you do of one or the other comes down to personal preference.  It seems like honing in on the three characteristics resonates with you so no need to seriously mix it up. 

I just think it can be helpful to differentiate between a more contemplative investigation of the three characteristics vs a more pure insight practice of noticing sensations and focusing on honing your powers of mindfulness.  Both are notable practices on the path and can applied, and combined, to various effects and ends.
shargrol, modified 1 Year ago at 2/1/23 6:19 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 2/1/23 6:19 AM

RE: How is accepting dissatisfaction SO fulfilling...?

Posts: 2516 Join Date: 2/8/16 Recent Posts
"why does it fill me with content and bliss?"

it can be a relief to realize that there is a certain basic level of dissatisfaction that isn't your fault. emoticon
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Aeon , modified 1 Year ago at 2/2/23 10:48 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 2/2/23 10:48 AM

RE: How is accepting dissatisfaction SO fulfilling...?

Posts: 212 Join Date: 1/31/23 Recent Posts
shargrol
"why does it fill me with content and bliss?"

it can be a relief to realize that there is a certain basic level of dissatisfaction that isn't your fault. emoticon


Ah yes, now that you point it out, that seems to be true. Thanks!
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Jim Smith, modified 1 Year ago at 2/2/23 7:47 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 2/2/23 7:47 AM

RE: How is accepting dissatisfaction SO fulfilling...?

Posts: 1748 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
.... ........
Ever since I read MCTB, and learned of the characteristic of dissatisfaction, I find it so oddly satisfying to investigate how everything is dissatisfying.

I can't help but wonder if I am doing it wrong, or if it's supposed to work this way?

Perhaps it could make sense, if I accept everything is dissatisfying, I no longer grasp or cling, but why does it fill me with content and bliss?


Can you explain how pleasant thigs are dissatisfying?

And what do you mean by "I accept everything is dissatisfying"? Did you do that once and you were done, or do you do it every time you recognize something is dissatisfying? And how do you "accept" it, do you say to yourself I accept xyz is dissatisfying because ...?

Thanks
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Aeon , modified 1 Year ago at 2/2/23 10:48 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 2/2/23 10:48 AM

RE: How is accepting dissatisfaction SO fulfilling...?

Posts: 212 Join Date: 1/31/23 Recent Posts
Jim Smith
.... ........
Ever since I read MCTB, and learned of the characteristic of dissatisfaction, I find it so oddly satisfying to investigate how everything is dissatisfying.

I can't help but wonder if I am doing it wrong, or if it's supposed to work this way?

Perhaps it could make sense, if I accept everything is dissatisfying, I no longer grasp or cling, but why does it fill me with content and bliss?


Can you explain how pleasant thigs are dissatisfying?

And what do you mean by "I accept everything is dissatisfying"? Did you do that once and you were done, or do you do it every time you recognize something is dissatisfying? And how do you "accept" it, do you say to yourself I accept xyz is dissatisfying because ...?


I will try my best, but it may end up being one of those paradoxical sounding things that don't translate into words very well.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say, everything is dissatisfying to some extent, because nothing is fulfilling in a permanent way.
I find chocolate pleasant, but as I eat it, I lose my desire for it, the ability to enjoy or derive pleasure from it, and after eating it I either feel neutral or uncomfortable. When I realize the start and endpoint are the same in terms of dissatisfaction, the enjoyment I expect from it is released without needing to consume it.
I do the acknowledging of dissatisfaction as a part of insight meditation. While I can forget it in daily life, it feels as if it could become a mental habit of sorts, and thus automatic.

Honestly I'm not sure how I do it. The internal process is becoming aware of something, saying with my inner voice "this too is dissatisfying" or "everything is dissatisfying", and this causes an emotional acknowledgement, rather than a cognitive processing.

I don't know if this makes sense outside my head.
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Jim Smith, modified 1 Year ago at 2/3/23 5:39 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 2/3/23 5:39 AM

RE: How is accepting dissatisfaction SO fulfilling...?

Posts: 1748 Join Date: 1/17/15 Recent Posts
Aeon ........
...

I will try my best, but it may end up being one of those paradoxical sounding things that don't translate into words very well.

Perhaps it would be more accurate to say, everything is dissatisfying to some extent, because nothing is fulfilling in a permanent way.
I find chocolate pleasant, but as I eat it, I lose my desire for it, the ability to enjoy or derive pleasure from it, and after eating it I either feel neutral or uncomfortable. When I realize the start and endpoint are the same in terms of dissatisfaction, the enjoyment I expect from it is released without needing to consume it.

I do the acknowledging of dissatisfaction as a part of insight meditation. While I can forget it in daily life, it feels as if it could become a mental habit of sorts, and thus automatic.

Honestly I'm not sure how I do it. The internal process is becoming aware of something, saying with my inner voice "this too is dissatisfying" or "everything is dissatisfying", and this causes an emotional acknowledgement, rather than a cognitive processing.

I don't know if this makes sense outside my head.


How long have you been a regular meditator?

Have you tried other types of meditation?

Does the effect you experience last after a meditation session until your next session or does it fade when you stop meditating?
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Dream Walker, modified 1 Year ago at 2/3/23 1:11 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 2/3/23 1:11 AM

RE: How is accepting dissatisfaction SO fulfilling...?

Posts: 1745 Join Date: 1/18/12 Recent Posts
Aeon ........ Ever since I read MCTB, and learned of the characteristic of dissatisfaction, I find it so oddly satisfying to investigate how everything is dissatisfying. I can't help but wonder if I am doing it wrong, or if it's supposed to work this way? Perhaps it could make sense, if I accept everything is dissatisfying, I no longer grasp or cling, but why does it fill me with content and bliss?

It's good to have a diagnosis that you are not the only one.
My advice is to look at each of the three characteristics then realize stuff be empty of a permanent you.
Good luck
~D
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Aeon , modified 1 Year ago at 2/3/23 8:04 AM
Created 1 Year ago at 2/3/23 8:04 AM

RE: How is accepting dissatisfaction SO fulfilling...?

Posts: 212 Join Date: 1/31/23 Recent Posts
I can't say I have ever been a daily-regular meditator for more than a few months at a time. I am more consistent when I don't intend to, when I intend to practice daily, I find ways to not do it and feel bad about it. Psychology is weird.

Have been doing visualization, guided hypnosis (not really meditations, I know), yoga nidra to build body and energy awareness, various energy unblocking methods, microcosmic  orbit, concentration meditations of various types (which I largely failed and never integrated), will connection trainings, and soft type jhanas.

I would say the feeling tends to fade away. It feels as if it's filling a tank that empties if not maintained.

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