Attention Wave, Tension, and Suffering - Discussion
This made things much, much clearer for me:
link
Elsewhere on the same page:
The way to deal with hindrances is to RECOGNIZE as early as possible arising tension that comes up with them. RELEASE any attention on the hindrance and RELAX all remaining tension and tightness that was caused by it. Then just let it be there. Lightly SMILE and RETURN to your meditation object or whatever task you were doing. All hindrances naturally pass away if they are not fed mind’s attention. A hindrance cannot increase if “I” do not personally give it nutriment! When a hindrance arises, it lets us know how the idea of a self, or the personal perspective causes suffering. [my emphasis]
Immediate practical application: stop giving hindrances nutriment! Meditation vastly improved. I had formerly understood that whatever has my attention should be taken apart vipassana-style. To paraphrase Kenneth Folk, "There are no hindrances! More grist for the mill" - just keep noting! For me this resulted in painful, knotted, tangled, and involuted noting that seemingly fed a beast. If I've misunderstood the idea of these noting instructions, and if there is some benefit to confrontational noting, I'm all ears. In the future when I note, it will be a gentler, more relaxed version of what I had (mis)understood!
This also makes the attention wave crystal clear, both theoretically and experientially: as a dart, as suffering. It's not something difficult to experience or understand for yourself directly, right now, even for this preemie.
cheers,
Matt
Dhammasukha on Sila:
- Lust, Greed, ‘I’ want it mind, leading on to attachment;
When you look at the ‘I’ want it mind, notice there is arising tension and a pre-occupation with ME and desire. This is where the idea of a personal self arises. “I” want it! This leads out of the present moment into thinking, analyzing, conceptualizing state and imagination about how to make something happen. How do I ‘get it’, whatever “it” is? This becomes an exhausting obsession, a driving force. There is a pulling sensation as your attention is pulled away from whatever you are doing. - Hatred, ‘I’ don’t want it mind leads to aversion and more attachment;
This hindrance also arises with a tension and tightness in mind/body as a similar thinking process pulls attention from the present moment. There is a desire to push it away and then there also arises a pulling sensation which is attachment in our mind as we demand a solution! Both happen in similar ways because of the personal perspective involved. Hatred and aversion do not lead to satisfaction and calm. Instead, they lead to an emotionally active mind full of suffering. “I” struggle and “I’ suffer to make things the way “I” want them to be! That’s a lot of pushing and pulling going on.
Elsewhere on the same page:
Dhammasukha on Sila:
The way to deal with hindrances is to RECOGNIZE as early as possible arising tension that comes up with them. RELEASE any attention on the hindrance and RELAX all remaining tension and tightness that was caused by it. Then just let it be there. Lightly SMILE and RETURN to your meditation object or whatever task you were doing. All hindrances naturally pass away if they are not fed mind’s attention. A hindrance cannot increase if “I” do not personally give it nutriment! When a hindrance arises, it lets us know how the idea of a self, or the personal perspective causes suffering. [my emphasis]
Immediate practical application: stop giving hindrances nutriment! Meditation vastly improved. I had formerly understood that whatever has my attention should be taken apart vipassana-style. To paraphrase Kenneth Folk, "There are no hindrances! More grist for the mill" - just keep noting! For me this resulted in painful, knotted, tangled, and involuted noting that seemingly fed a beast. If I've misunderstood the idea of these noting instructions, and if there is some benefit to confrontational noting, I'm all ears. In the future when I note, it will be a gentler, more relaxed version of what I had (mis)understood!
This also makes the attention wave crystal clear, both theoretically and experientially: as a dart, as suffering. It's not something difficult to experience or understand for yourself directly, right now, even for this preemie.
cheers,
Matt
)( piscivorous:
Immediate practical application: stop giving hindrances nutriment! Meditation vastly improved. I had formerly understood that whatever has my attention should be taken apart vipassana-style. To paraphrase Kenneth Folk, "There are no hindrances! More grist for the mill" - just keep noting! For me this resulted in painful, knotted, tangled, and involuted noting that seemingly fed a beast. If I've misunderstood the idea of these noting instructions, and if there is some benefit to confrontational noting, I'm all ears. In the future when I note, it will be a gentler, more relaxed version of what I had (mis)understood!
The main benefit is that "confrontational noting" has a good track record of getting people MCTB paths more directly.
Whether you want those, whether you need those...at this point, who knows.
This also makes the attention wave crystal clear, both theoretically and experientially: as a dart, as suffering. It's not something difficult to experience or understand for yourself directly, right now, even for this preemie.
This is good to hear!
Are you able to see that your attention is constantly moving from its object and being drawn to some kind of subtle tension (not just in the case of some kind of gross experience of a hindrance)?
...and "hardcore vipassana" without noting to be even more so.
It's like standing in front of one of those machines that fires baseballs or tennis balls at a player while they're practicing, except with this approach you're taking every single hit right in the face.
Very effective though.
)( piscivorous:
How does hardcore vipassana differ from Mahasi noting?
Eventually noting (even monosyllabic noting) stands in the way of precise observation, but the basic idea is the same.
The big difference may be, noting is for discrete phenomenoa, whereas the flow from sense-experience to attention wave and back can be experienced as completely continuous.
By the way, I tried your drunken vipassana fist [link] a couple of times. 
I don't think I got nearly as worked up as you described 
I don't think I got nearly as worked up as you described And why not?
Liam pointed out that there is a kind of "mental release" that one may have to be willing to lift in order to get it right.
