too much for me? - Discussion
no pitfalls really (since this is basically establishing the foundation for deeper things and is entraining a path of least resistance for additional energy) but I'll toss in some extra guidelines...
-be gentle, esp with the motion of the perineum - the addition of this was a well guarded secret for generations because of the martial power it adds. its like trimming the motor on a boat. a lift as opposed to a contraction.
-breaths goes not so high as to perturb the heart, not so low as to reach or go below the genitals.
-utilize the middle ~70% range - as you get more air in the lungs there's a point where more air requires more energy from the lungs for expansion. (great tip from BK Frantzis' opening the energy gates book)
-focus on the 3 main fundamental breath structures: diaphragm, psoas, perineum. those are the 3 that create the internal dynamics. so when you inhale, imagine dropping the junction of the diaphragm & psoas. this "roots" the motion of the breath and allows you to begin to stop using the sinuses and air passageways to facilitate the movement of air - eventually you get to where its just diaphragm-psoas-perineum, that's where "the breath externally disappears" and you've dropped the movement of air below the threshold of turbulence, you can no longer feel yourself breathe, but still have the "one breath" rolling motion going on. that stuff happens around the minute mark. the more "longevity" your breath gets, the more you wind up streamlining the usage of everything.
(I developed an air passageway identification exercise that may be of help - basically investigate each and every place air touches on its path and see how you may effect the local air pressure there. pull air at the tip of the nose, try the crown of the nose, maxillary sinuses, ethmoid sinuses, frontal sinuses...be gentle with the sphenoid since it is right on the opposite side of the midbrain, it'll give you a headache quickly if you use it too hard...back of throat, larynx, trachea, bronchi, upper lungs, lower lungs, diaphragm. so from a position of action, sequentially analyzing...derive inaction, completely let go of the entire air path and do not use it whatsoever to facilitate breath. only then will the breath disappear!)
I believe the look down the nose thing was partially a method to help fixing the spirit at the seat of awareness.
when the spirit is well affixed at the seat of awareness, that is partly arresting the energy potential available to the senses - so you can liken the 5 thieves to the physical component of 12 thieves, the cranial nerves. air flow across the olfactory nerve stimulates it, neural firings beget neural firings. so relaxation is the method for some of them, like the trigeminal; coherent breath is the method for others, olfactory, vagus; stillness, vestibulochlear, and so forth. there is a matrix of feedbacks to mitigate as you calm your body into lower consumption states - so combined with harmonious breath, we have a relative production maxima at a consumption minima. sure, the production maxima may be higher, but in those other situations the consumption will also be higher still - so think net positive balance.
-posture helps flow. if your spine isnt decently straight, the diaphragm motion does not flow smoothly, like if you are hunched forward.
once you figure out how to keep your spirit at its seat, it shouldnt require a lot of willpower to do so. it becomes harder if you entertain thoughts - an old master once said, leave the front door open, the back door open, but do not invite them to stay for tea! whenever you catch your mind wandering, simply return to the breath, reestablish the breath protocol. remember this energy is light, so even where there is higher flux density, it is still light. mind is gravity, Yi directs Qi, it will stagnate if you let it bog you down but it will also soar if you let it /\
-be gentle, esp with the motion of the perineum - the addition of this was a well guarded secret for generations because of the martial power it adds. its like trimming the motor on a boat. a lift as opposed to a contraction.
-breaths goes not so high as to perturb the heart, not so low as to reach or go below the genitals.
-utilize the middle ~70% range - as you get more air in the lungs there's a point where more air requires more energy from the lungs for expansion. (great tip from BK Frantzis' opening the energy gates book)
-focus on the 3 main fundamental breath structures: diaphragm, psoas, perineum. those are the 3 that create the internal dynamics. so when you inhale, imagine dropping the junction of the diaphragm & psoas. this "roots" the motion of the breath and allows you to begin to stop using the sinuses and air passageways to facilitate the movement of air - eventually you get to where its just diaphragm-psoas-perineum, that's where "the breath externally disappears" and you've dropped the movement of air below the threshold of turbulence, you can no longer feel yourself breathe, but still have the "one breath" rolling motion going on. that stuff happens around the minute mark. the more "longevity" your breath gets, the more you wind up streamlining the usage of everything.
(I developed an air passageway identification exercise that may be of help - basically investigate each and every place air touches on its path and see how you may effect the local air pressure there. pull air at the tip of the nose, try the crown of the nose, maxillary sinuses, ethmoid sinuses, frontal sinuses...be gentle with the sphenoid since it is right on the opposite side of the midbrain, it'll give you a headache quickly if you use it too hard...back of throat, larynx, trachea, bronchi, upper lungs, lower lungs, diaphragm. so from a position of action, sequentially analyzing...derive inaction, completely let go of the entire air path and do not use it whatsoever to facilitate breath. only then will the breath disappear!)
I believe the look down the nose thing was partially a method to help fixing the spirit at the seat of awareness.
when the spirit is well affixed at the seat of awareness, that is partly arresting the energy potential available to the senses - so you can liken the 5 thieves to the physical component of 12 thieves, the cranial nerves. air flow across the olfactory nerve stimulates it, neural firings beget neural firings. so relaxation is the method for some of them, like the trigeminal; coherent breath is the method for others, olfactory, vagus; stillness, vestibulochlear, and so forth. there is a matrix of feedbacks to mitigate as you calm your body into lower consumption states - so combined with harmonious breath, we have a relative production maxima at a consumption minima. sure, the production maxima may be higher, but in those other situations the consumption will also be higher still - so think net positive balance.
-posture helps flow. if your spine isnt decently straight, the diaphragm motion does not flow smoothly, like if you are hunched forward.
once you figure out how to keep your spirit at its seat, it shouldnt require a lot of willpower to do so. it becomes harder if you entertain thoughts - an old master once said, leave the front door open, the back door open, but do not invite them to stay for tea! whenever you catch your mind wandering, simply return to the breath, reestablish the breath protocol. remember this energy is light, so even where there is higher flux density, it is still light. mind is gravity, Yi directs Qi, it will stagnate if you let it bog you down but it will also soar if you let it /\
/\ I am glad you are able to derive benefit
In some sense I believe any internal work is a measure of internal alchemy, although all alchemies certainly are not congruent
My background...a bad back led me to explore martial arts, and then I found more personal applicability in chigung, which led to discovering meditation. Studied from books for a while, spent a lot of time on YMAA embryonic breathing, 8 brocades, healing sounds, picked up a few concepts from bk's energy gates book and just from that alone I was able to troubleshoot and coax minute+ breaths, having qi from the breath manifest at the lower, over sessions grew and extended to my skin, radiated outside, and eventually beyond my perception. In doing that I found out things like the need to cease using the air passageways, the diaphragm-posas-perineum dynamic. The diaphragm was kinda funny, we're told it descends on inhale, but one thing I asked was why does nobody ever teach the exact motions to begin a breath? So if you descend the diaphragm from the middle, as it reaches its lower extent, without that air pressure buffering mechanism, the diaphragm gives forth a single hiccup because of the competing tensions front vs back - I got past that by realizing one has to "anchor" the diaphragm if one is to rely on it more fully and not buffer the air pressures with the sinuses. That also calms the vagus by smoothing the wave-motion of the diaphragm over the foramina for Aorta, Vena Cava, Esophagus (vagus goes through esophageal).
So anyway, after a lot of this progress I tried getting a little more deeply into BK's stuff but there were some aspects that I had figured out for myself already and my approach was a little different, so I couldnt really get into it all *that* much. Like I got his meditation CDs but given that they were timed I was hyperventilating if I tried to follow the beginning ones.
While a bunch of my studies have been from books and my own troubleshooting, I have had the opportunity to study with some pretty unique individuals. I learned max's kunlun-redphoenix stuff which really accelerated everything I was doing, a good buddy of mine is a...ah, I'll get this wrong but he teaches pure land cultivation and some other meditation and qi gong. I mostly dont differentiate between taoist and buddhist methods - I have a toolbox I've built over the years and apply it. I've done a lot of work with dantien breathing and uncovered an interesting practice, my av is a clue ;) But of course I wouldnt have done so had others prior to me not established it first! My main moving stuff these days is xing shen zhuang spinal qigong and some bagua, also some spontaneous moving to get certain kinks out - I've beaten my body up quite good over the years, I used to go find the biggest things to jump off of on skis when I was a teenager, all kinds of wild things like that hahaha!
I havent quite gotten around to putting taoist yoga into practice but I study that book often. That's some true alchemy imho.
I also love reading Nan Huai Chin, TCM stuff like deadman's, yellow emperor, but also physics oriented material. Used to browse arxiv before I got into reading about meditation Also done a lot of study on anatomy...so I basically just try to be scientific and analyze, practice, ponder, correct, practice some more.
oh, one other point for the OP I forgot to mention - spend some time sometime working on smoothing the transitions between inhale and exhale - if you want to get them long and deep and make the breath disappear, smoothing out the transitions is another key - think back to air pressure changes and the olfactory bulb metering - make that transition too quickly and you will feel it. make it smooth enough and eventually you're just doing a little raising and lowering in the gut while your awareness shines.
In some sense I believe any internal work is a measure of internal alchemy, although all alchemies certainly are not congruent
My background...a bad back led me to explore martial arts, and then I found more personal applicability in chigung, which led to discovering meditation. Studied from books for a while, spent a lot of time on YMAA embryonic breathing, 8 brocades, healing sounds, picked up a few concepts from bk's energy gates book and just from that alone I was able to troubleshoot and coax minute+ breaths, having qi from the breath manifest at the lower, over sessions grew and extended to my skin, radiated outside, and eventually beyond my perception. In doing that I found out things like the need to cease using the air passageways, the diaphragm-posas-perineum dynamic. The diaphragm was kinda funny, we're told it descends on inhale, but one thing I asked was why does nobody ever teach the exact motions to begin a breath? So if you descend the diaphragm from the middle, as it reaches its lower extent, without that air pressure buffering mechanism, the diaphragm gives forth a single hiccup because of the competing tensions front vs back - I got past that by realizing one has to "anchor" the diaphragm if one is to rely on it more fully and not buffer the air pressures with the sinuses. That also calms the vagus by smoothing the wave-motion of the diaphragm over the foramina for Aorta, Vena Cava, Esophagus (vagus goes through esophageal).
So anyway, after a lot of this progress I tried getting a little more deeply into BK's stuff but there were some aspects that I had figured out for myself already and my approach was a little different, so I couldnt really get into it all *that* much. Like I got his meditation CDs but given that they were timed I was hyperventilating if I tried to follow the beginning ones.
While a bunch of my studies have been from books and my own troubleshooting, I have had the opportunity to study with some pretty unique individuals. I learned max's kunlun-redphoenix stuff which really accelerated everything I was doing, a good buddy of mine is a...ah, I'll get this wrong but he teaches pure land cultivation and some other meditation and qi gong. I mostly dont differentiate between taoist and buddhist methods - I have a toolbox I've built over the years and apply it. I've done a lot of work with dantien breathing and uncovered an interesting practice, my av is a clue ;) But of course I wouldnt have done so had others prior to me not established it first! My main moving stuff these days is xing shen zhuang spinal qigong and some bagua, also some spontaneous moving to get certain kinks out - I've beaten my body up quite good over the years, I used to go find the biggest things to jump off of on skis when I was a teenager, all kinds of wild things like that hahaha!
I havent quite gotten around to putting taoist yoga into practice but I study that book often. That's some true alchemy imho.
I also love reading Nan Huai Chin, TCM stuff like deadman's, yellow emperor, but also physics oriented material. Used to browse arxiv before I got into reading about meditation
Also done a lot of study on anatomy...so I basically just try to be scientific and analyze, practice, ponder, correct, practice some more.oh, one other point for the OP I forgot to mention - spend some time sometime working on smoothing the transitions between inhale and exhale - if you want to get them long and deep and make the breath disappear, smoothing out the transitions is another key - think back to air pressure changes and the olfactory bulb metering - make that transition too quickly and you will feel it. make it smooth enough and eventually you're just doing a little raising and lowering in the gut while your awareness shines.
in keeping with the natural waxing and waning of the environment, wang li ping recommended longer in breaths in the first half of the day and longer outbreaths in the latter half of the day; Austin also made correlation to the neural inhibitory response of longer outbreaths in zen & the brain.
I generally try to do moving things, more active things, in the morning and early afternoon. My energy simply lasts stronger longer with utilizing that yang exercise at a yang time of day, and naturally the yin cultivation later on.
But at root it is each our own problem to troubleshoot through. There are times awareness will wane, energy wanes - part of the efficacy of these techniques are in the habits that are established. Immediate results are unrealistic. If however you find yourself not breathing deeply enough, or not sitting up straight, or gapping the awareness too much...well, all one may do is correct it when he notices it - and just as important, every time one notices, correct. If the breathenergy is a little low, make the breath a little more active, if the awareness becomes dull, make sure your eyes are at least partially open and refocus the attention. The remedies are simple, but tough in that they have to be repeatedly employed as one builds habit.
"The brain builds neural networks of habit and experience," therefore in order to establish a new habit we need to overcome the old habit-energy and replace it with a new habit-energy. That only happens by practice and mindfully asserting your will on these things as the situations arise. As often as necessary. Unperturbed.
I generally try to do moving things, more active things, in the morning and early afternoon. My energy simply lasts stronger longer with utilizing that yang exercise at a yang time of day, and naturally the yin cultivation later on.
But at root it is each our own problem to troubleshoot through. There are times awareness will wane, energy wanes - part of the efficacy of these techniques are in the habits that are established. Immediate results are unrealistic. If however you find yourself not breathing deeply enough, or not sitting up straight, or gapping the awareness too much...well, all one may do is correct it when he notices it - and just as important, every time one notices, correct. If the breathenergy is a little low, make the breath a little more active, if the awareness becomes dull, make sure your eyes are at least partially open and refocus the attention. The remedies are simple, but tough in that they have to be repeatedly employed as one builds habit.
"The brain builds neural networks of habit and experience," therefore in order to establish a new habit we need to overcome the old habit-energy and replace it with a new habit-energy. That only happens by practice and mindfully asserting your will on these things as the situations arise. As often as necessary. Unperturbed.
Dan Cooney:
/\ I am glad you are able to derive benefit
In some sense I believe any internal work is a measure of internal alchemy, although all alchemies certainly are not congruent
My background...a bad back led me to explore martial arts, and then I found more personal applicability in chigung, which led to discovering meditation. Studied from books for a while, spent a lot of time on YMAA embryonic breathing, 8 brocades, healing sounds, picked up a few concepts from bk's energy gates book and just from that alone I was able to troubleshoot and coax minute+ breaths, having qi from the breath manifest at the lower, over sessions grew and extended to my skin, radiated outside, and eventually beyond my perception. In doing that I found out things like the need to cease using the air passageways, the diaphragm-posas-perineum dynamic. The diaphragm was kinda funny, we're told it descends on inhale, but one thing I asked was why does nobody ever teach the exact motions to begin a breath? So if you descend the diaphragm from the middle, as it reaches its lower extent, without that air pressure buffering mechanism, the diaphragm gives forth a single hiccup because of the competing tensions front vs back - I got past that by realizing one has to "anchor" the diaphragm if one is to rely on it more fully and not buffer the air pressures with the sinuses. That also calms the vagus by smoothing the wave-motion of the diaphragm over the foramina for Aorta, Vena Cava, Esophagus (vagus goes through esophageal).
So anyway, after a lot of this progress I tried getting a little more deeply into BK's stuff but there were some aspects that I had figured out for myself already and my approach was a little different, so I couldnt really get into it all *that* much. Like I got his meditation CDs but given that they were timed I was hyperventilating if I tried to follow the beginning ones.
While a bunch of my studies have been from books and my own troubleshooting, I have had the opportunity to study with some pretty unique individuals. I learned max's kunlun-redphoenix stuff which really accelerated everything I was doing, a good buddy of mine is a...ah, I'll get this wrong but he teaches pure land cultivation and some other meditation and qi gong. I mostly dont differentiate between taoist and buddhist methods - I have a toolbox I've built over the years and apply it. I've done a lot of work with dantien breathing and uncovered an interesting practice, my av is a clue ;) But of course I wouldnt have done so had others prior to me not established it first! My main moving stuff these days is xing shen zhuang spinal qigong and some bagua, also some spontaneous moving to get certain kinks out - I've beaten my body up quite good over the years, I used to go find the biggest things to jump off of on skis when I was a teenager, all kinds of wild things like that hahaha!
I havent quite gotten around to putting taoist yoga into practice but I study that book often. That's some true alchemy imho.
I also love reading Nan Huai Chin, TCM stuff like deadman's, yellow emperor, but also physics oriented material. Used to browse arxiv before I got into reading about meditation Also done a lot of study on anatomy...so I basically just try to be scientific and analyze, practice, ponder, correct, practice some more.
oh, one other point for the OP I forgot to mention - spend some time sometime working on smoothing the transitions between inhale and exhale - if you want to get them long and deep and make the breath disappear, smoothing out the transitions is another key - think back to air pressure changes and the olfactory bulb metering - make that transition too quickly and you will feel it. make it smooth enough and eventually you're just doing a little raising and lowering in the gut while your awareness shines.
In some sense I believe any internal work is a measure of internal alchemy, although all alchemies certainly are not congruent
My background...a bad back led me to explore martial arts, and then I found more personal applicability in chigung, which led to discovering meditation. Studied from books for a while, spent a lot of time on YMAA embryonic breathing, 8 brocades, healing sounds, picked up a few concepts from bk's energy gates book and just from that alone I was able to troubleshoot and coax minute+ breaths, having qi from the breath manifest at the lower, over sessions grew and extended to my skin, radiated outside, and eventually beyond my perception. In doing that I found out things like the need to cease using the air passageways, the diaphragm-posas-perineum dynamic. The diaphragm was kinda funny, we're told it descends on inhale, but one thing I asked was why does nobody ever teach the exact motions to begin a breath? So if you descend the diaphragm from the middle, as it reaches its lower extent, without that air pressure buffering mechanism, the diaphragm gives forth a single hiccup because of the competing tensions front vs back - I got past that by realizing one has to "anchor" the diaphragm if one is to rely on it more fully and not buffer the air pressures with the sinuses. That also calms the vagus by smoothing the wave-motion of the diaphragm over the foramina for Aorta, Vena Cava, Esophagus (vagus goes through esophageal).
So anyway, after a lot of this progress I tried getting a little more deeply into BK's stuff but there were some aspects that I had figured out for myself already and my approach was a little different, so I couldnt really get into it all *that* much. Like I got his meditation CDs but given that they were timed I was hyperventilating if I tried to follow the beginning ones.
While a bunch of my studies have been from books and my own troubleshooting, I have had the opportunity to study with some pretty unique individuals. I learned max's kunlun-redphoenix stuff which really accelerated everything I was doing, a good buddy of mine is a...ah, I'll get this wrong but he teaches pure land cultivation and some other meditation and qi gong. I mostly dont differentiate between taoist and buddhist methods - I have a toolbox I've built over the years and apply it. I've done a lot of work with dantien breathing and uncovered an interesting practice, my av is a clue ;) But of course I wouldnt have done so had others prior to me not established it first! My main moving stuff these days is xing shen zhuang spinal qigong and some bagua, also some spontaneous moving to get certain kinks out - I've beaten my body up quite good over the years, I used to go find the biggest things to jump off of on skis when I was a teenager, all kinds of wild things like that hahaha!
I havent quite gotten around to putting taoist yoga into practice but I study that book often. That's some true alchemy imho.
I also love reading Nan Huai Chin, TCM stuff like deadman's, yellow emperor, but also physics oriented material. Used to browse arxiv before I got into reading about meditation
Also done a lot of study on anatomy...so I basically just try to be scientific and analyze, practice, ponder, correct, practice some more.oh, one other point for the OP I forgot to mention - spend some time sometime working on smoothing the transitions between inhale and exhale - if you want to get them long and deep and make the breath disappear, smoothing out the transitions is another key - think back to air pressure changes and the olfactory bulb metering - make that transition too quickly and you will feel it. make it smooth enough and eventually you're just doing a little raising and lowering in the gut while your awareness shines.
I meant to thank you for sharing your experiences with us (a year ago…). Thank you. Hope all is well.
