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Fruition Mahamudra experience

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Fruition Mahamudra experience
Answer
4/7/15 5:40 PM
Fruition Mahamudra seems to be a glorified way of saying: ordinary experience. At least that's how the "ordinary experience", seems be to experienced, in experience.

User Chuck Kasmire posted a long list of qualities that Reggie Rays lists that are associated with the fruition mahamudra experience (in my words: the ordinary experience), I have excerpted them here:

Qualities:
The best description of these qualities that I have come upon are in Reggie Rays book Secret of the Vajra World. In a section titled Some Aspects of Mahamudra Experience, Reggie quotes extensively from Chogyam Trungpa Rinpoche on the qualities of the Fruition Mahamudra:

Vividness: 'A pure, straight forward expression of the world of sight and smell and touchable objects as a self-existing mandala of experience...Things are seen precisely, beautifully, without any fear of launching into them'.

Ordinariness: 'One usually thinks of the spiritual journey as moving higher and higher, until we attain fulfillment that is extraordinary in the extreme, the highest of the high. However, [this is] the fulfillment of a journey downward, from our lofty ideas about the ultimate to the raw truth and reality of our lives, to the most basic, unadorned experience of what life is.'

Nakedness: The .. experience is also somewhat irritating, or even highly irritating,because of its sharpness and precision. The energies around you... are all very vivid and precise. They are all so naked and so much right in front of you, without any padding, without any walls between you and that. That nakedness is overwhelming.'

Inescapable: 'hen the world begins to become you and all these perceptions are yours and are very precise and very obviously right in front of you, you can't run away from it. … you really try to run away from these phenomena, they begin to mock you, laugh at you....You can't get away from it...You begin to feel you are just a live brain with no tissue around it, exposed on a winter morning to the cold air.”

Youthfulness: It is eternally youthful because there is no sense of repetition, no sense of wearing out of interest because of familiarity. Every experience is like a new, fresh experience.'

Great Bliss: 'You become the bliss rather than enjoying the bliss...We are talking about pleasure in the sense that everything can be included. There is a sense of reality involved in pleasure. There is a sense of truth in it. ..The bliss... is not so much great pleasure, but it is the experience of tremendous spaciousness, freedom from imprisonment, which comes from seeing through the duality of existence and realizing that the essence of truth, the essence of space, is available on this very spot.'

Communicative Power of Being: 'here is energy, intelligence, and direction in our most ordinary experience as humans. We begin to find messages coming through our experience,and these provide illumination, guidance, and help...erceptions, feelings, emotions arise in our experience. In the experience of Mahamudra, they are seen not as something already known but rather as fresh irruptions of reality, unprecedented and beyond the reach of our concepts and judgments. Each is a revelation, appearing at just that moment.'

Magic of What Is: 'Mahamudra reveals the natural order and rightness of reality at just this moment. It reveals the magic of what is. The magic of simplicity. ..When we look at things as they are on a very simple, ordinary level, we find that they are fantastically, obviously true, frighteningly true. Because of their quality of being true and obvious, things are sacred and worth respecting.'


Upon closer inspection (AKA, first glance), these seem to be almost verbatim Richard's (from the Actual Freedom Trust) way of describing his experience of the "Actual World", consisting of 'pristine purity', 'naivete', 'pure intent', 'sensate clarity', 'utter perfection' etc.

Which further lends to the notion that we are all experiencing the same thing (read: thang, ain't no thang but a chicken wang, nomsayn?)

Thoughts?

P.S

Or would you all prefer to debate the "authenticity" of noting? Haha

RE: Fruition Mahamudra experience
Answer
4/9/15 9:09 AM as a reply to Echo 10.
Echo 10:
Fruition Mahamudra seems to be a glorified way of saying: ordinary experience. At least that's how the "ordinary experience", seems be to experienced, in experience.


Yep, ordinary experience, but no longer happening to an idiot.

There's the rub ;-)

RE: Fruition Mahamudra experience
Answer
4/10/15 9:19 AM as a reply to Echo 10.
I like Ray and Trungpa, but their writing and talks tend to be a bit impressionistic. If you want really precise, technical discussions of the Mahamudra path, you have to check out Daniel Brown's Pointing Out the Great Way. I'll share a few quotes that I like.

From the section on non-dissolution, the final step before the extraordinary practices: "Rather than a temporal succession of discrete mind moments, the practitioner experiences the entire causeless, groundless, interconnectedness of everything. Everything, in the form of very subtle karmic propensities comes forth at once. The practitioner realizes "the basis of everything" and grasps the entirety of all potential experiences - past, present, and future, of all realms throughout space - in the same instant... this profound and sudden experience of the atemporal interconnectedness of everything is called the nondissolution experience to delineate it from the Theravada path."

Next comes the entry into the extraordinary practices, one taste yoga. Jampel Powa: "The object, the many seeming appearances as great bliss; the subject, the highest refinement of emptiness; and the pair, bliss and emptiness, simultaneously born; also relative truth in its illusory body; absolute truth in its clear light; and both truths, nondual - are one taste. They are the simultaneously born, the pair. All phenomena when appearing in ordinary time are not artificially made to become self-existent things, and therefore are found to be empty. Although they are not made into anything, nevertheless, appearance happens, and therefore these are found to be a nondual pair - appearance and emptiness, or one taste. Therefore since you know bliss and emptiness, clarity and emptiness, and awareness and emptiness to be nondual pairs, you understand what is called "many as one taste."

He goes on to describe how mental events at this stage continue to occur but do not in anyway obscure awareness....

Moving ahead to non-meditation: "... By focusing on a particular object, the continuity of awareness across all phenomena is disrupted and one becomes distracted from the general awareness of the one taste of all phenomena. This fundamental intentional act is the basis of all forms of discrimination, which leads to false conceptualization and then to mistaken views. When the mind does not move toward any seemingly appearing object, and more specifically does not take it to mind, the most rudimentary basis for any discrimination falls away, and the practitioner completely transcends all false conceptualization. Mastery of not-taking-to-mind completely purifies the mind of any tendency to move toward or away from seeming objects. More specifically, it eradicates any movement of the mind-perceiver and clears the way for undistracted awareness of the natural mind."

Brown describes the stage of fruition enlightenment as the fulfillment of one taste yoga when it continues efforlessly. He says, "the most important feature of fruition enlightenment is that the practitioner's seemingly individual consciousness is realized to be the three buddha bodies; (I) The dharmakaya, or truth body, represents the level of the fully enlightened mind, namely its vast awareness space, unstained by artificial activity and flase concepts. (2)The sambhogakaya, or enjoyment body, represents the extraordinary level of all potential propensities for experience. (3) The nirmanakaya, or emanation body, represents thought, emotion, sensation, and perception seeming to unfold in the temporal mental continuum at the coarse level of mental content. During fruition enlightenment these three levels of mind, or buddha bodies, become manifest simultaneously... Fruition enlightenment in the Mahamudra mahayana tradition is very different from the Theravada conception of enlightenment, or nirvana. Theravada enlightenment is described by the Mahayanists as a form of dissolution... Mahamudra enlightenment is the culmination of nondissolution, wherein the seemingly ordinary coarse-level experiences of the mind are not obstructed...."