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8 fold path - has an order ?

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8 fold path - has an order ?
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8/24/15 9:08 PM
Does the eightfold path have an order ? cause every time i get a different answer

some times i read that the 8 fold path is like a train where each aspect of it pulls the next one   : when you have right speech it pulls right action which polls right livelihood   

and some times i read you need to have them all at once 

what are your thoghts on this subject ?  

RE: 8 fold path - has an order ?
Answer
8/25/15 5:25 AM as a reply to water drop.
howdy WD,
for my money, the order has meaning albeit subtle. i think that each individual 'step' conditions the next and lead from the philosophical to the practical.

you are probably aware of the common three groupings which are often used to provide a more simplified categorization of the steps. sometimes they are referred to as moral conduct, mental discipline and the wisdom aspects. this is a framework which is easier (for me) to comprehend.

the first three steps set the philosophical / moral basis for understanding the further steps while the next sets down the practical foundation and discipline for the practice steps toward 'wisdom' which follow.

right - view, though, speech, action, livelihood, effort, mindfulnessand and concentration.

that said, i don't find it personally very effective as a practice tool but rather more as a guidance tool.  for practice I prefer the satipatthana format and structure as it tends to lead from the gross to the subtle and mirrors my formal sitting experience.

are you trying to use this as a practice or are you just trying to deepen your understanding of the teachings?

tom

RE: 8 fold path - has an order ?
Answer
8/25/15 8:01 AM as a reply to water drop.
It is funny that you bring this up, as I was just reading in this PDF about the 8 Fold Path:

The figurative expression ‘Path’ or ‘Way’ has been sometimes  misunderstood as implying that the single factors of that Path  have to be taken up for practice, one after the other, in the order given. In that case, Right Understanding, i.e. the full penetration of Truth, would have to be realized first, before one could think of developing Right Thought, or of practising Right Speech, etc. But in reality the three factors (3-5) forming the section ‘Morality’ (sila) have to be perfected first; after that one has to give attention to the systematic training of mind by practising the three factors (6-8) forming the section ‘Concentrations (sam dhi); only after that preparation, man’s character and mind will be capable of reaching perfection in the first two factors (1-2) forming the section of ‘Wisdom’ (paññ).

An initial minimum of Right Understanding, however, is required at the very start, because some grasp of the facts of suffering, etc., is necessary to provide convincing reasons, and an incentive, for a diligent practice of the Path. A measure of Right Understanding is also required for helping the other Path factors
to fulfil intelligently and efficiently their individual functions in the common task of liberation. For that reason, and to emphasize the importance of that factor, Right Understanding has been given the first place in the Noble Eightfold Path.

This initial understanding of the Dhamma, however, has to be gradually developed, with the help of the other Path factors, until it reaches finally that highest clarity of Insight (vipassana) which is the immediate condition for entering the four Stages of Holiness...Right Understanding is therefore the beginning as well as the culmination of the Noble Eightfold Path.

Regards, Jeff

RE: 8 fold path - has an order ?
Answer
8/26/15 4:46 AM as a reply to tom moylan.
I use satipatthana practice it goes hand in hand with the 8 fold path

i want to understand this also from a theoretical point of view and also if there is something i can take from it than it would be great as well

I did get things out of it - the importance of right speech of right action and livelihood ect  -- it always confused though the issue of the order

and how it works  ---- even in the smaller details  

the order has meaning albeit subtle. i think that each individual 'step' conditions the next and lead from the philosophical to the practical. ......   i would love to hear about the subtle meaning

edit : thanks jeff for the link i didnt see your comment before posting  

still would like to hear more peoples opinion on this subject
 

RE: 8 fold path - has an order ?
Answer
8/26/15 6:37 AM as a reply to water drop.
hmm the subtleties...
well, the threeway breakdown is essentiall the same as the "Three Trainings" which Daniel uses in MCTB and that the Buddha expressed in his third sutta.  i guess that's not so subtle.

I'll look back into my stuff for the progressive descriptions of the order of the steps and see if that helps.

that said, as I mentioned previously, i have never found the eightfold path an effective "method", like I find the satipatthana to be. you mention also that you use that sutta as a basis for contemplation.  is that what you want from the eightfold path or more an intellectual excercise?

tom

RE: 8 fold path - has an order ?
Answer
8/26/15 7:30 AM as a reply to tom moylan.
I practice vipassana based in satipatthana sutta - i have a teacher - i just am mindful  as a practice  

but the practice of course is also right livelihood doing good deeds right speech and action  - so i want to now more about it  - maybe to see where im at in the practice - what areas i shuold improve - also from i pure basic intrest ....  i just read different answers so i would like to get to the buttom of this

i remember seeing somewhere that the eightfold path is gradual and as if every time you go throw it you "purify" yourself to a certin extent and than you start again the path but from the next level 

everything someone has to offer on this subject is welcomed

RE: 8 fold path - has an order ?
Answer
8/26/15 3:32 PM as a reply to water drop.
@OP: Maybe try reading Thannissaro's The Wings of Awakening because he talks about the main Buddhist lists, including the 8fold path, and how they can be fractalized, recombined (within themselves and amongst each other), and read in different orders to produce new meanings.

RE: 8 fold path - has an order ?
Answer
8/27/15 11:47 AM as a reply to Noah.
Thanks noah - i read the part about the eightfold path - very intersting

RE: 8 fold path - has an order ?
Answer
8/27/15 1:30 PM as a reply to water drop.
Oh cool.  Glad you liked it.

RE: 8 fold path - has an order ?
Answer
8/28/15 12:35 PM as a reply to water drop.
I think many of the numbered lists that buddhism contains are misunderstood as being ordered lists when it's more likely that they're mnemonic devices (memory aids) used by early buddhists who had no way to preserve important concepts in writing. The 8-fold path and even dependent origination appear randomly and occur randomly and inter-relatedly, than in any particular order.