Forum: Practical Dharma

Hi Everybody,

During walking meditation today, walking fairly briskly along the river (no turning around after a few steps) and noting "left" - "right" while paying attention to the feet touching the ground, I hit a state where I experienced my field of vision swaying, very similar to being slightly drunk, but without the light-headedness or vertigo.

It was as if the "optical stabilizer" which usually corrects for the swaying vision when walking had shut down. Also, the ground seemed awfully unreal all of a sudden, like a sponge or a layer of fog that would solidify just in time in the spot where I would next set my foot, or somehow rise up to meet my foot. I had no trouble walking, however.

So, was that a (slow) vibration of insight practice, or some really dynamic samatha state? I've hit "sitting on air" and "world revolving around my diaphagm" sensations in sitting samatha meditation, but the quality was quite different when walking today - when I stood still, the ground seemed solid enough, and the swaying stopped, but the effect resumed when I started walking again.

It was the second time I hit this state today, the first time was a few days ago. I tried to note the swaying, but couldn't think of anything but "left - right" which didn't seem useful, so I continued to note my steps instead.

Thanks for any advice,

Cheers,
Florian

Hi Florian,

Though I've never experienced what you're describing I've heard many folks on retreat mention experiencing something very very similar (like walking on a swaying boat, etc.). The teachers always respond that this phenomena has something to do with concentration...

Thanks for the hint, Vince.

Are you referring to "concentration", as in "concentration and energy" in the five spiritual factulties? An excess in concentration, an imbalance? The effect set in after about 45 minutes, could be that energy was draining away at that point.

Cheers,
Florian

I don't know whether it's an imbalance or not, just that it's related to having developed a good deal of concentration while walking. Sorry I don't know more about this particular phenomena. Maybe someone else here on the DhO will have had 1st hand experience with it.

my vision has gotten foggy once or twice while getting concentrated during walking, but that was several months ago and I haven't experienced the see-sawing picture you describe. if i had to speculate i think it is an energy thing, as what i experienced felt state-like; i remember being able to notice a lot more duality between objects and the background--things were happening very much "out there", more so than usual

FWIW the site i posted the link to back on describes something like what you describe as as being a side-effect of Dissolution.

Hi Florian,

This is noted in many texts on stages of meditation. It is considered piti or rapture.

This reference briefly mentions it.

http://www.vipassanadhura.com/sixteen.htm

3. Okkantika piti (flood of joy)
In this piti:
"There may be a rhythmic feeling like waves breaking on the shore."

My teacher also tells me this is from too much concentration and the solution is to increase mindfullness, or noting.

In terms of what it means, what it is, or its relation to Shamatha, i dont know. In retrospect to my experience, you may be on to something with the very slow, maybe less than 1 cycle per second, vibration waves.

When this happened to me, my teacher told me it was wrong practice. I ignored him thinking I was on to something. I kept focusing on feelings around my foot and my concentration increased to the point where the floor was bouncing, my hut was shaking, and I could feel what i thought were the magnetic fields of the earth pulsing like ocean waves. It was interesting at first, but unsettling after a few days. It just got to the point where it made me physically sick and it was difficult to practice. Regardless of whatever it is, the right practice is just noting "swaying", "vibrating" , "nausea" etc and go back to walking.

Some people have developed strong concentration because of their professions, even before they begin practicing meditation.

Ill just throw this out there. Some of this may contradict with what Daniel or others teach, im not trying to dispute other teachers methods, just present another teaching on the same insight practice.

Wat Chom Tong in Thailand (The abbot Ajahn Tong is a disciple of Mahasi Sayadaw also) teaches meditators to try to practice equal parts concentration and mindfulness. How to do this is little difficult to explain or know unless you go too far on either side.

Focusing on the foot can cause people to build concentration quickly, especially for those who have already developed it. This applies to me also. Now, when i do walking meditation, I back my concentration off and start with a wider awareness. During practice sessions, if im doing a 3,4,5,6 step walking motion, I know im walking and note it (lifting-moving-putting or whatever), but I'm not concentrating on the foot or the feeling of the foot touching the floor. I just know the foot is moving or touching without focusing on the foot. I also, with the wider awareness, acknowlege more internally and externally. "Hearing", "Thinking" or whatever. I dont think there is a one size fits all in regard to this. Some people have stronger mindfullness and having their focus on the foot would not cause the concentration build up that you are experiencing.

If the swaying or anything else comes to attention, Chom Tongs teaching is to stop walking first, note the swaying, dizzyness, etc. until it stops, or at least note it several times and then start walking again mindfully. Whatever comes to attention note it, dont ignore, look for anything, or chase things.

I hope that gives you some further ideas of ways to practice if the concentration gets to strong.

Greg

Thanks Greg, Nathan, Vince for the good advice, I'm very grateful, as I wasn't able to make much sense of this development.

About widening the awareness, noting "hearing", "touching", "thinking", "talking" etc. - that's what I set out to do, and in reptrospect, my awareness narrowed down too much after a while, some kind of "tunnel vision". Interesting.

The effect was unusual, but didn't feel quite right - "wrong practice" seems to sum it up nicely. I'll pay more attention to keeping my attention wide and note a broad range of sensations.

Cheers,
Florian