Noting causes swirls

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ivory, modified 4 Years ago at 7/20/18 10:05 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/20/18 10:03 AM

Noting causes swirls

Posts: 199 Join Date: 9/11/14 Recent Posts
I have chosen noting as my primary technique but I notice that when I note it causes a swirl to appear in my experience. I've tried noting the swirl, but that just results in another swirl. Things can get pretty turbelent and distracting if I note a lot. I still think noting is necessary because attention isn't very stabile yet. But I wonder if I just need to plow through the swirls, and maybe they will eventually die down, or if I am doing something wrong. Any advice?
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Chris M, modified 4 Years ago at 7/20/18 10:14 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/20/18 10:14 AM

RE: Noting causes swirls

Posts: 4479 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
I'm not clear on what a swirl is - can you elaborate?

Thanks.
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ivory, modified 4 Years ago at 7/20/18 11:06 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/20/18 11:06 AM

RE: Noting causes swirls

Posts: 199 Join Date: 9/11/14 Recent Posts
Chris Marti:
I'm not clear on what a swirl is - can you elaborate?

The swirls are hard to describe but they are basically visuals that appears in my field of awareness. I've heard others refer to them so I figured that at least someone would know what I was talking about.
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Daniel M Ingram, modified 4 Years ago at 7/20/18 11:11 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/20/18 11:11 AM

RE: Noting causes swirls

Posts: 3231 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
The problem is what again? How are moving colors causing difficulty? Do you have swirlophobia? ;)
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Chris M, modified 4 Years ago at 7/20/18 11:25 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/20/18 11:25 AM

RE: Noting causes swirls

Posts: 4479 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Though I'm still not sure what a swirl is, I can say that I've had all manner of visual effects occur over the course of my practice. It's par for the course. Expected. Part of the deal. Situation normal.

Yet, to echo Daniel, how is it that they're bothering you?
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ivory, modified 4 Years ago at 7/20/18 11:44 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/20/18 11:44 AM

RE: Noting causes swirls

Posts: 199 Join Date: 9/11/14 Recent Posts
Daniel M. Ingram:
The problem is what again? How are moving colors causing difficulty? Do you have swirlophobia? ;)

Haha, I was wondering if I was doing something wrong. Basically, I keep my attention focused on hand sensations to build concentration, then note anything that pulls away attention from my hand. The swirls tend to distract me from my hand. Then if I note the swirls, it just results in more swirls, which keeps me further distracted. Perhaps this is not a problem.
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ivory, modified 4 Years ago at 7/20/18 11:45 AM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/20/18 11:45 AM

RE: Noting causes swirls

Posts: 199 Join Date: 9/11/14 Recent Posts
Chris Marti:
It's par for the course. Expected. Part of the deal. Situation normal.

That's what I suspected, but I thought I would ask anyways.
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Daniel M Ingram, modified 4 Years ago at 7/20/18 1:32 PM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/20/18 1:32 PM

RE: Noting causes swirls

Posts: 3231 Join Date: 4/20/09 Recent Posts
I have gone on retreats where I spent many hours using visual washes of colors, swirls and the like as the object of meditative attention. www.firekasina.org
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ivory, modified 4 Years ago at 7/24/18 12:13 PM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/24/18 11:49 AM

RE: Noting causes swirls

Posts: 199 Join Date: 9/11/14 Recent Posts
I figured out why the swirls were so strong. At first I thought that the swirls resulted from the noting. And, although there was some correlation, it had more to do with the level of effort than anything else. But the effort still wasn't the root of the issue. The effort was fueled by a strongĀ desire for stream entry and deep meditations.

I noticed that when I have strong desires I can let those desires fall away by relaxing. I wasn't putting enough emphasis on relaxation in my meditation. Going forward I have to keep in mind "relaxed attention" and keep noticing when I want things to be other than they are.

One thing that has become clear is that this is a process of letting go.
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Chris M, modified 4 Years ago at 7/24/18 3:14 PM
Created 4 Years ago at 7/24/18 3:14 PM

RE: Noting causes swirls

Posts: 4479 Join Date: 1/26/13 Recent Posts
Good work - nice realization.