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Can’t stop suffering

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Can’t stop suffering es pro 6/25/20 6:13 PM
RE: Can’t stop suffering es pro 6/25/20 5:28 PM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Mathew Poskus 6/27/20 6:58 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Ni Nurta 6/25/20 5:33 PM
RE: Can’t stop suffering es pro 6/25/20 5:38 PM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Ni Nurta 6/25/20 6:11 PM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Jim Smith 6/25/20 7:19 PM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Ni Nurta 6/25/20 8:02 PM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Jim Smith 6/26/20 5:22 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Ni Nurta 6/26/20 6:48 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 6/26/20 6:56 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Ni Nurta 6/26/20 8:06 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 6/26/20 9:22 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Ni Nurta 6/29/20 11:06 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 6/30/20 4:55 PM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Zachary 6/29/20 2:08 PM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Jim Smith 6/27/20 6:03 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö 6/27/20 8:21 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Tim Farrington 6/30/20 4:10 PM
RE: Can’t stop suffering es pro 6/30/20 4:32 PM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Ni Nurta 6/30/20 5:30 PM
RE: Can’t stop suffering es pro 7/1/20 6:45 PM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Papa Che Dusko 7/2/20 3:12 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Tim Farrington 6/30/20 6:43 PM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Tim Farrington 7/2/20 4:28 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Ni Nurta 7/2/20 6:53 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Tim Farrington 7/2/20 7:03 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Chris Marti 7/2/20 8:29 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Ni Nurta 7/2/20 10:43 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Chris Marti 7/3/20 9:17 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Ni Nurta 7/3/20 1:06 PM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Chris Marti 7/3/20 1:45 PM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Tim Farrington 7/4/20 4:14 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Ni Nurta 7/4/20 9:46 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Ni Nurta 7/4/20 9:39 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Chris Marti 7/5/20 9:30 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Olivier 7/5/20 10:23 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Ni Nurta 7/5/20 6:16 PM
RE: Can’t stop suffering es pro 7/2/20 10:10 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Papa Che Dusko 7/2/20 2:54 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering es pro 7/6/20 10:53 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering es pro 7/6/20 11:27 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Ni Nurta 7/6/20 11:55 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering es pro 7/6/20 2:51 PM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Ni Nurta 7/6/20 3:28 PM
RE: Can’t stop suffering es pro 7/7/20 12:30 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Chris Marti 7/7/20 7:22 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering es pro 7/7/20 9:23 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Chris Marti 7/7/20 9:45 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Tim Farrington 7/10/20 11:05 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Chris Marti 7/10/20 3:49 PM
RE: Can’t stop suffering es pro 7/11/20 10:57 PM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Tim Farrington 7/12/20 5:10 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering Tim Farrington 7/12/20 5:08 AM
RE: Can’t stop suffering A. DIetrich Ringle 7/5/20 10:45 AM
Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/25/20 6:13 PM
Hi...
I went through a spiritual awakening for the last 2 years. I developed a ton of love and equanimity, faced a ton of fear and a ton of grief, became more and more myself.
then March came...some fear arose, I began to lose equanimity, did some things that were very uncompassionate toward myself.
come April I noticed my heart was pretty well empty.
out of panic I decided to try to meditate my way out of it, ignorantly. I ended up way too much in my crown chakra, dissolving what seemed to be ALL my ego boundaries, feeling like I was on mushrooms. At times this was great. I felt a beautiful pure love and consciousness. Most of the time, fear and racing thoughts.
also feeling like my head fell off my body- the best thing is to ground in the body but this is incredible my hard for me, I sometimes feel like I watch my body from outside
since then, multiple medication changes (and failing to properly treat myself) I have been in the same loop. Since April, every time the fear arose, I'd notice confusion and increased mental activity - thoughts speeding up, poorer concentration. Now, thoughts so whirlwind fast, very difficult to concentrate on anything, and just a burning emptiness in my heart.
one thing I am having trouble with letting go of is the idea that it was caused by "soul harvesting", entities, etc. As Buddhist nun who's achieved the highest wisdom of anyone I know peered into my mind over the phone and told me to stop explaining it by external things so I should probably stop
anyway what provoked me to comment here was that I decided to read about hell realms. It gave me a sense of hope lol because beings in these realms are devoid of compassion and are in anguish from their karma and yet there's always a way out. I have tried Metta, everything like that, but didn't get magical results right away so I often give up.
right now I'm purely just in survival mode. I have not made much of an effort to not listen to my thoughts- the thoughts that say "this is causing mental damage, ____ is going to happen to you, you need to reopen your heart and heal this fear that is retraumatizing you" and the thoughts that say the past was obviously way better and I need to open my heart.
I keep being told, and telling myself, to just be present and allow everything that's happening to happen and try to be kind. But it's hard to watch myself interact with ppl and the world with such a dry heart- though trying to fix this doesn't work. And I truly do believe it's causing further fragmentation and descent into duality.....which suuuuucks thus again trying to open my heart and heal and stop the cycle. I have so many beliefs now that I'm incapable of love- though part of me knows it's deep down beneath the pain, though actively focusing on my heart daily constantly reaffirms the idea that it isn't cuz I am desperately looking for it.
i wonder what you intelligent people think....gotten a lot of help here in the past. What Is is unpleasant (lack of love, constant anxiety/racing thoughts), but my judgment of what is adds 50 pounds to the weight and yet I am seemingly unwilling to stop that judgment.
lastly; I am purely addicted to consulting my therapist and teacher about my mind. They tell me the same things every time pretty much  and nothing shifts. I feel so vulnerable without talking to them, I'm wondering what it would be like to not talk to them for a bit....every day I complain to them that my mind is getting worse and they say the same things- just focus on the present moment etc etc.... I mean support is important but I kinda feel like I'm addicted to just leaching off of them. 

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/25/20 5:28 PM as a reply to es pro.
Also I feel like this huge fear Samskara is causing repeated fragmentation and leading me to descend further into duality- from heart into ego mind.has fighting it been helping- no. But doing it even though my therapist tells me literally daily to just focus on the present moment, cuz it's just hard hard.
So might as well try just ...watching it

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/25/20 5:33 PM as a reply to es pro.
Hearth chakra is one to be usually blocked and it seems this is the case here.
Working with chakras and unblocking them is pretty easy, you just point awareness to place where chakra is and keep it there as a basic excercise. Over time kind of pressure will be felt. In case of severly blocked chakra it might even become somewhat painful. Do not worry about that. Additional things which help is moving awarenes around the area and moving awareness from hands and/or feet to affected chakra. It might be however somewhat difficult and is a practice in itself. Also visualizing chakra color is a great way to spin it. Unfortunately it is hard to know what to visualize until you know what color chakra really have. Those are very specific shades. You might however give it a try, and probably should.

Other thing which I would highly recommend is getting some crystal with nice vibrations.
In this case I think kunzite/spodumene would be useful. Those stones are Lithium based and their vibrations are quite soothing.
Also emeralds are good for hearth chakra and ruby is good for base chakra. Not exactly the same color of vibrations but oh well emoticon

BTW. Dark Night will pass on its own. The state progresses through what at the same time seems like small improvement and big degradation of mental state on more fundamental level. It challenges your faith in that life will improve.
It will, things will get better. The best thing to do is just to relax and enjoy it, even if it is strange and not much sustained pleasure can be had. Ultimately in the end dark night won't happen anymore mainly because when they happen you can enjoy them to the point that it immediately changes to Equanimity so you can treat being in DN as a chance to do excercises. Right now they might not be working but they ultimately won't be in vain.

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/25/20 5:38 PM as a reply to Ni Nurta.
Thanks, this gives me some hope
it is a total dark night - even though I've had one before- and I'm grasping so hard for love and salvation everywhere I go
as for the heart chakra thing I've tried many times. My awareness is always on my heart - it is incredibly blocked and definitely painful and it feels like a gaping hole

yeah like i don't know how to not worry if damage seems to be INCREASING ie less social, loss of memory/concentration, trouble functioning altogether. None of this would matter if my heart were open though ahha it's only the fact that my mind is not ok with the pain

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/25/20 6:11 PM as a reply to es pro.
Try other chakras first, especially lower ones.
Few years when I notices my chakras became very blocked and nowhere where they have been previously I started unblocking them in what was pretty much random order. Last chakra to be activated was throat chakra, and second last heart chakra.

Most important is root/base chakra (red) and its energy, without which you just cannot feel very well. Second sacral chakra (orange) is also very important and much easier to work with than any other chakras. Then you have navel chakra (yellow) which is tricky because it deals with sense of self. It should not be an issue as long as you did not bought in to all the no-self silliness found in dharma books. These I recommend doing first, then heart should be much easier and more signignificant.

Dark Night is liek that. It always seems to get worse and worse. Even if there are periods of improvement it all seems like overall it got worse and even you start to question all the moments when it was better, like they were responsible for more suffering now.

It all will pass.

The thing to note is to not give in to "relief" that is everywhere in these states. You do not want relief as in "experience of this suffering being removed" and moving your mind in to direction where these relief experiences arise is pretty much what creates Dark Night in the first place. It is much better to move attention to actual suffering and then some other place in your mind should light up faintly, somewhere far away, it will seem to be somehow related to suffering. Move attention here avoiding all this "relief" stuff. It will make suffering seems like it was always pleasure. You will also know why relief never worked and was unskillful.

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/25/20 7:19 PM as a reply to es pro.
I think you should try to find a medical professional who can advise you on your medications as well as your meditation practice.

I don't know if these resources will help but you could have a look and see what you think (Since they are listed on the internet they may be willing to work via e-mail or phone.)

AMERICAN CENTER FOR THE INTEGRATION OF SPIRITUALLY TRANSFORMATIVE EXPERIENCES
https://aciste.org/support-directory/aciste-certified-mental-health-professionals/

Association for Transpersonal Psychology
http://www.atpweb.org/professional/profdir.aspx


Spiritual Emergence Service
http://spiritualemergence.net/therapists/

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/29/20 2:08 PM as a reply to es pro.
Sorry to hear you're having a difficult time. I also went through a prolonged period of intense fear, depersonalization and ungroundedness similar to what you describe. It took a long time for this to stuff to work it's way out, but it has begun to end after many months of gentle, patient and consistent practice. It's good to hear you have a teacher and therapist who can support and work with you during this time. 

Here are some things that helped me when I experienced similar symptoms as you, maybe they will be useful, maybe not. It's good to take an experimental approach to working with new techniques, seeing what works, what doesn't and not really expecting too much from them initially. 

  • Find a safe setting where your body feels comfortable releasing strong emotions, crying, shaking, etc. For me this was a secluded place alone in my car at night. I often watched sad/touching videos and nostalgic music to "set the mood" during these sessions. It's something I had to do a couple times a week for about a year. Giving deeper/wounded parts of yourself space to release whatever they want to release in a safe, non-judgemental way is key here.
  • Find a place where the body feels comfortable to lie down and do deep, diaphragmatic breathing, allowing the body to move and shake if necessary as much as it wants. 
  • Long walks in nature, the wilder the better. Long views and sweeping vistas are great too. Walking barefoot if possible. 
  • Moderate exercise every day as needed to burn off excess energy. Cardio, cycling or weight-training. 
  • Standing meditation (Zhan Zhuang) or other grounding practices in place of a usual sitting practice. Can't recommend this enough. There is a book called "The Way of Energy" that is an excellent guide for this. 
  • Give oneself permission to skip a day of practice, do less practice occasionally and generally loosen up any expectations or scheduling around practice. 
  • Simple acts of service or volunteering when possible. 
  • Making time to be with friends or family you like and trust. 
  • Taking inventory of your life and noticing if there's anything in particular you are avoiding, and then deal with these issues as best you can. Journaling could help in revealing these. 
This period of your practice will likely be very painful and difficult, but it will end, you won't stay here forever. Consistent practice, proper support, and attention to your basic needs and comfort is key here. 

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/25/20 8:02 PM as a reply to Jim Smith.
Personally I do not think getting medications is the good approach.
It is not like they will prescribe you what is missing from your diet like eg. lithium but give you some real drugs that will screw up your brain chemistry.

People with depression can beat it and people with medications usually get addicted to them and are more likely to commit suicide.

Of course since I am not professional health care professional please do not take my advice seriously. Rather take it with large grain of salf. Preferably some salt which is missing from your diet.

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/26/20 5:22 AM as a reply to Ni Nurta.
Ni Nurta:
Personally I do not think getting medications is the good approach.
It is not like they will prescribe you what is missing from your diet like eg. lithium but give you some real drugs that will screw up your brain chemistry.

People with depression can beat it and people with medications usually get addicted to them and are more likely to commit suicide.

Of course since I am not professional health care professional please do not take my advice seriously. Rather take it with large grain of salf. Preferably some salt which is missing from your diet.

There's another forum I post to sometimes which has rule that prohibits members from posting anything that could influence someone to go off their meds because it could result in death, injury or other problems for the person or others around him. I think it's a good rule.  

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/26/20 6:48 AM as a reply to Jim Smith.
I am not recommending going off meds but I do recommend not getting in to meds in the first place. There is a big difference.

Antidepressants especially can lead to more severe suicidal thoughts and it is not that hard to see why. Suffering and suicidal thoughts are mostly caused by overusing sets of neuronal pathways to the point they cannot take it anymore. Abused neurons need to rest. Antidepressants can increase activity in different parts of the brain by making it easier to re-fire them once they are activated and make it more likely they will get activated because of more "noise". When alternative pathways are used the activity in currently used pathways will decrease so it gives the improvement right there. Also you basically need to use your whole brain, not at once but from time to time each part needs to be used, or it does not feel well. But antidepressants also makes it more likely to abuse the pathways which are already abused and need rest. This in turn result in suicidal thoughts with death being seen as a form of release.

Even Dark Night as a whole is a result of abusing neuron pathways and this is why it is so easy to deal with when you know trick behind changing changing used neuron pathways. This is also why I say to look for faint related experiences that light up when focusing on suffering. Those are neuron pathways which can do the same set of tasks instead of those pathways in which neurons just had enough stimulation and which use now generate this suffering. This also why I recommend ignoring any apparent experience of "relief" as it is just like jolting used pathways with even more stimulation that will maybe for a moment stop their activity but will ultimately only abuse these neurons even more and increase connection to those neurons making them used even more.

Antidepresants is anything will teach you that increasing activity in your brain is a good thing which just like A&P which causes Dark Night will ultimately lead to even more severe depression.

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/26/20 6:56 AM as a reply to Ni Nurta.
Could you elaborate on how you find alternative neural pathways and change to them? It sounds interesting. I'm on antidepressants, though, so maybe it wouldn't work for me?

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/26/20 8:06 AM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
When you focus your attention to part of body eg. hand it will cause increased activation in all regions of nervous system which process this part of body. It will also cause slight activation of all the parts which can process this part of the body. The trick is to learn to find these slightly activated parts and focus on them. When you do that correctly it will move activation from currently used parts of nervous system to these new pathways.

Only thing to note is that you cannot try to experience any "relief" because if you do you will increase activation of the part of body which you want not to be active. This is the most tricky part because it feels desirable to experience relief and only reason why learning this simple trick eludes people.

This practice is a sort of maintenance where brain re-learns where parts of nervous system are and how to activate them. It progressively easier to swith these used pathways because you will know how different part of active brain feels like so you will be able to just change how you feel just like that, also to avoid ever getting parts of your nervous system getting tired in the first place.

Antidepressants might even make it easier to work with as those different pathways will be more likely to get activated. It might however be harder to identify this "relief" I mentioned earlier because antidepressants work by making serotonin level deplete slower so the higher activation caused by experiencing any sort of relief-like experience will leave less noticeable effect of having depleted serotonin in given area of brain. This is also why I do not recommend antidepressants, they teach you bad habits. Recreational drugs like MDMA also do this, even to more degree but you usually have short trip on these and then it is back to hard cold gray reality that have its rules. On antidepressants you pretty much are contantly on small serotonin high...

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/26/20 9:22 AM as a reply to Ni Nurta.
This is interesting. Have you learned this on your own the hard way? Or is there an education for this?

I have stumbled over this in a very specific case, actually due to antidepressants. Many of them have have unwelcome side effects with regard to the sexlife, and I accidently found a way to use new pathways instead by way of giving up, so I know that it can happen. 

I don't think I'm on a constant serotonine high. I even have to combine my antidepressants with additional 5-htp because I seem to have some kind of deficiency in metabolizing tryptofan from food. I could be wrong, of course. I know that I should theoretically be on a small serotonine high, just like you said. It's just that my body doesn't seem to work like bodies usually do. It reacts differently to basically everything, compared to what is normal. Sometimes I seriously suspect that I'm some kind of mutant (I guess most of us are in some sense, but I mean more distinctly).

Is any kind of relief bad according to this? If so, what is the advantage of the method? And how do you define relief? How do you distinguish between liberation and relief? If I'm not allowed to feel good, I'm out. I suspect you are much more nuanced than that, though. 

I also wonder if there is any relation between this and shifting from individual attention to a wider awareness that doesn't identify with the problem at hand or the separate entity of "me". I suspect that would activate new neural pathways in the individual brain, paradoxically enough.

Sorry for kidnapping the thread. Hopefully this is still enough on topic to be useful for the original question.

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/27/20 6:03 AM as a reply to es pro.
"Can’t stop suffering"

Sometimes the problem isn't the emotion but one's attitude toward the emotion. What if you say to yourself, "this ________(suffering) is familiar, it's normal, nothing's wrong".

It can help to recognize the physical sensations of the emotions as distinct from the mental anguish. If you can accept that you are going to have these emotions, and accept that you are going to have those physical sensations, then the mental anguish part is sometimes lessened.

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/27/20 6:58 AM as a reply to es pro.
I had problem with fear ,it used to tense my forehead muscles wich kinda blocked energy and I was thinking about chakras ,but what really helped was just flexing those muscles in forehead ,maybe u have same problem ,hope it helps

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/27/20 8:21 AM as a reply to es pro.
If I'm reading you right, es pro, you are worried about not caring. Right? But isn't that worry a manifestation of caring? It's just that at this point you are not feeling the caring, and so you fear that the worries are just scripted? That deep inside you don't have the caring heart that you feel you should have? I have had similar worries although for me they had nothing to do with not self, and this was before I started my daily practice, so maybe this is not at all relevant for you. Yet it just might be.

It turned out in my case that I was so overwhelmed that I had shut off that feeling. It's a bit like shock but more longterm. It doesn't mean that you don't care. It means that the caring overwhelms you so much that you can't handle it, and defense mechanisms are in place for the purpose of giving you time to rest. Those defense mechanisms aren't always that accurate. They can be very primitive, because they were often developed at an early age and may not have had a chance to mature as we tend to resent them rather than accept them to be out in the open. They aim at helping you, though. Try to have compassion for them. Care for them as scared little children. Trust that love, caring and compassion are there. It's okay to take care of yourself first. Nurse every part of "you" lovingly and patiently. You need to have your own basic needs met before it's even reasonable to expect you to radiate anything outwordly. Actually, you are also part of the world. You are one of the beings that should receive metta, not just give. If you can have compassion for yourself, there's hope for everyone. It sets an example to others. If feeling compassion for yourself feels impossible, then maybe try to start with not beating yourself up for not being able to feel it. That's compassion too. Don't jump on the guilt-and-shame train. And if you do feel guilt and shame, then have compassion for the part of you that feels guilt and shame, because you can relate, right? You know how it feels. Wish for that part to have relief from that. Give it a warm hug and say to it that it's okay. 

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/29/20 11:06 AM as a reply to Linda ”Polly Ester” Ö.
Word 'liberation' suggests experiencing things which are detrimental to getting to experience actual liberation and that is why I do not like using it. It is simply matter of practicality.

When you switch parts of brain which are used for some function then you will experience pleasure from activation of previously not used parts of your brain and also experience pleasure from previously used parts of your brain which are now resting. In this sense this is experience of liberation, both from inaction and from action. Neurons like to fire, just not for too long, then they want to rest.

Avoiding experiencing "relief" that I mentioned means to avoid a kind of experiences which are too close to parts of your brain which are currently in use and experiencing which would inevitably prevent their deactivation and then resting. It is actually possible to force parts of your brain to rest doing it differently than I described (which was moving awareness to parts which light up when having awareness on some experience) but it is still not the same thing as I described as "relief" and how to do that should come naturally once the method I described can be done easily as it relies on these skills (specifically being comfortable with letting various parts of brain fire when needed).

It would probably be best to maybe come up with different word than "relief" te describe what I mean but so far nothing better comes to mind. Not even after few years of thinking about it. Of course this have nothing to do with experiencing or not experiencing pleasure. I do not even say that experiencing this relief is wrong in itself. It is however good to know that certain experiences might act as hindrances when doing something specific and can also itself carry risk of eg. they can tire parts of your brain, especially when these neurons which are needed for these experiences are already quite tired and these relief experiences present themselves as solution to feeling tired.

I did things the hard way I suppose. I mainly practiced eyesight and experiencing color->everything synesthesia among some other mostly visual types of synesthesia. Making color being processed by different parts of the brain to change their presentation in awareness should explain the whole "changing used nervous system pathways" thing emoticon And to be more specific some colors were pleasant most of the time and some were unpleasant most of the time. My aim was to be able to target specif colors and making them "jhanic". The best way to do it is to re-route them to where their processing is already pleasant. Places where they are currently processes might be generally good but if neurons in this place are tired (even just some of the neurons) then it is actually better to leave this place completely and let these neurons rest for the time being and only come back later. Anything related to dealing with sight in this way will of course work elsewhere in the body hence this method of dealing with suffering is universal.

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/30/20 4:10 PM as a reply to es pro.
es pro:
Hi...
I went through a spiritual awakening for the last 2 years. I developed a ton of love and equanimity, faced a ton of fear and a ton of grief, became more and more myself.
then March came...some fear arose, I began to lose equanimity, did some things that were very uncompassionate toward myself.
come April I noticed my heart was pretty well empty.
out of panic I decided to try to meditate my way out of it, ignorantly. I ended up way too much in my crown chakra, dissolving what seemed to be ALL my ego boundaries, feeling like I was on mushrooms. At times this was great. I felt a beautiful pure love and consciousness. Most of the time, fear and racing thoughts.
also feeling like my head fell off my body- the best thing is to ground in the body but this is incredible my hard for me, I sometimes feel like I watch my body from outside
since then, multiple medication changes (and failing to properly treat myself) I have been in the same loop. Since April, every time the fear arose, I'd notice confusion and increased mental activity - thoughts speeding up, poorer concentration. Now, thoughts so whirlwind fast, very difficult to concentrate on anything, and just a burning emptiness in my heart.
one thing I am having trouble with letting go of is the idea that it was caused by "soul harvesting", entities, etc. As Buddhist nun who's achieved the highest wisdom of anyone I know peered into my mind over the phone and told me to stop explaining it by external things so I should probably stop
anyway what provoked me to comment here was that I decided to read about hell realms. It gave me a sense of hope lol because beings in these realms are devoid of compassion and are in anguish from their karma and yet there's always a way out. I have tried Metta, everything like that, but didn't get magical results right away so I often give up.
right now I'm purely just in survival mode. I have not made much of an effort to not listen to my thoughts- the thoughts that say "this is causing mental damage, ____ is going to happen to you, you need to reopen your heart and heal this fear that is retraumatizing you" and the thoughts that say the past was obviously way better and I need to open my heart.
I keep being told, and telling myself, to just be present and allow everything that's happening to happen and try to be kind. But it's hard to watch myself interact with ppl and the world with such a dry heart- though trying to fix this doesn't work. And I truly do believe it's causing further fragmentation and descent into duality.....which suuuuucks thus again trying to open my heart and heal and stop the cycle. I have so many beliefs now that I'm incapable of love- though part of me knows it's deep down beneath the pain, though actively focusing on my heart daily constantly reaffirms the idea that it isn't cuz I am desperately looking for it.
i wonder what you intelligent people think....gotten a lot of help here in the past. What Is is unpleasant (lack of love, constant anxiety/racing thoughts), but my judgment of what is adds 50 pounds to the weight and yet I am seemingly unwilling to stop that judgment.
lastly; I am purely addicted to consulting my therapist and teacher about my mind. They tell me the same things every time pretty much  and nothing shifts. I feel so vulnerable without talking to them, I'm wondering what it would be like to not talk to them for a bit....every day I complain to them that my mind is getting worse and they say the same things- just focus on the present moment etc etc.... I mean support is important but I kinda feel like I'm addicted to just leaching off of them.
 Hi es pro,

my 2 cents, etc.

One reason it is called a dark night is because it is dark. you can't see shit. one reason it is sometimes referrede to as a cloud of unknowing is because it is impenetrable; you can't know shit. I tried for a third thing, to aim for the trifecta, but i'm dark nighting myself, and i can't do shit.

what can i say, amigo? you're fucked until it lifts. do everything everybody advises, or do nothing at all. it don't matter, as far as my experience tells me. it's just dogs howling at the moon, telling it to come closer or go away. the moon's gonna do what it wants.

Your job is to hang in there and wait and suffer this emptiness and horror and no-exit terror and despair, until it shows you what it wants by having you do it.

love, tim

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/30/20 4:32 PM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Thanks...well I don't think this is one of those romanticized dark nights of the soul. A) I already had one, after a time when i Was TRULY living in my ego b) I found myself throughout my awakening... this is just a manifestation of some unresolved karma coming back to bite me C) it's getting worse, darker and darker, more and more horrible thoughts, less and less being, more doing, hyper vigilance. I feel like a machine that yes has completely lost touch with my soul D) unhealthy obsessions and anxieties look more like mental illness than dark night. I WISH this was a dark night, I mean it's a very dark night, but...hm. I guess what I'm thinking is, it isn't in my souls plan I don't believe. It's stuck energy and I don't know how it can ever get unstuck unless I can just relax...so far haven't been able to at all
but you're right that I need to just hang in there....somehow.... and I guess NOT seek any revelations/heart opening experiences ?

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/30/20 4:55 PM as a reply to Ni Nurta.
Ni Nurta, thankyou! What you say makes a lot of sense. I appreciate it.

Es pro, thankyou for being patient with me asking Ni Nurta questions in your thread. I'll stop with that now. I hope you saw that I did reply to you as well, for what it's worth. You matter. 

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/30/20 5:30 PM as a reply to es pro.
es pro:
well I don't think this is one of those romanticized dark nights of the soul. A) I already had one, after a time when i Was TRULY living in my ego
Actually when you get through the first stages of awakening and enter what can be described as experience of no-self then you still can have Dark Night and it can be much much more confusing than how it was before.

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
6/30/20 6:43 PM as a reply to es pro.
emoticon

What the fuck is a "romanticized" dark night of the soul?

What a bizarre notion.

love, tim

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/1/20 6:45 PM as a reply to Ni Nurta.
Well...when I read about the dark night is seems much more beautiful than what I'm going thru...it's like a rite of passage, what I'm going thru just feels like my mind is damaged
and ok that makes sense about the no self thing because it was triggered when my crown opened up more, feeling a sense of loss of self, hence huge amounts of anxiety pouring thru. But then I messed up and I meditated in my crown and feel like I really dissolved my sense of self- it felt like I was on mushrooms
lost sense of time, lost that normal ego mind chatter, ability to form language properly....so my ego is working EXTREMELY hard to compensate for the scariness. I don't believe this is a rite of passage- it is me fucking around with my psyche (as though I just took way too many psychedelics )

and Linda I saw you , thanks for your response emoticon compassion might be the hardest thing right now, it's so hard to feel any

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/2/20 2:54 AM as a reply to es pro.
es pro:
Hi...
I went through a spiritual awakening for the last 2 years. I developed a ton of love and equanimity, faced a ton of fear and a ton of grief, became more and more myself.
then March came...some fear arose, I began to lose equanimity, did some things that were very uncompassionate toward myself.
come April I noticed my heart was pretty well empty.
out of panic I decided to try to meditate my way out of it, ignorantly. I ended up way too much in my crown chakra, dissolving what seemed to be ALL my ego boundaries, feeling like I was on mushrooms. At times this was great. I felt a beautiful pure love and consciousness. Most of the time, fear and racing thoughts.
also feeling like my head fell off my body- the best thing is to ground in the body but this is incredible my hard for me, I sometimes feel like I watch my body from outside
since then, multiple medication changes (and failing to properly treat myself) I have been in the same loop. Since April, every time the fear arose, I'd notice confusion and increased mental activity - thoughts speeding up, poorer concentration. Now, thoughts so whirlwind fast, very difficult to concentrate on anything, and just a burning emptiness in my heart.
one thing I am having trouble with letting go of is the idea that it was caused by "soul harvesting", entities, etc. As Buddhist nun who's achieved the highest wisdom of anyone I know peered into my mind over the phone and told me to stop explaining it by external things so I should probably stop
anyway what provoked me to comment here was that I decided to read about hell realms. It gave me a sense of hope lol because beings in these realms are devoid of compassion and are in anguish from their karma and yet there's always a way out. I have tried Metta, everything like that, but didn't get magical results right away so I often give up.
right now I'm purely just in survival mode. I have not made much of an effort to not listen to my thoughts- the thoughts that say "this is causing mental damage, ____ is going to happen to you, you need to reopen your heart and heal this fear that is retraumatizing you" and the thoughts that say the past was obviously way better and I need to open my heart.
I keep being told, and telling myself, to just be present and allow everything that's happening to happen and try to be kind. But it's hard to watch myself interact with ppl and the world with such a dry heart- though trying to fix this doesn't work. And I truly do believe it's causing further fragmentation and descent into duality.....which suuuuucks thus again trying to open my heart and heal and stop the cycle. I have so many beliefs now that I'm incapable of love- though part of me knows it's deep down beneath the pain, though actively focusing on my heart daily constantly reaffirms the idea that it isn't cuz I am desperately looking for it.
i wonder what you intelligent people think....gotten a lot of help here in the past. What Is is unpleasant (lack of love, constant anxiety/racing thoughts), but my judgment of what is adds 50 pounds to the weight and yet I am seemingly unwilling to stop that judgment.
lastly; I am purely addicted to consulting my therapist and teacher about my mind. They tell me the same things every time pretty much  and nothing shifts. I feel so vulnerable without talking to them, I'm wondering what it would be like to not talk to them for a bit....every day I complain to them that my mind is getting worse and they say the same things- just focus on the present moment etc etc.... I mean support is important but I kinda feel like I'm addicted to just leaching off of them. 

I hear you and know exactly what you are going through. Its a hard place to be in but also the best place as you have come to the point of being fed up with all this stuff, meditation and suffering and all emoticon I know as I have been there and I know now that there is a way to plow throuhg it all if you apply proper tool to your practice.

Right now your mind seems stuck in the content of the sensations and these belong to the stage of Dukkha Nana's. What was your main meditation practice?! Please do elaborate on how you practiced and for how long at a time and if it was daily. Also did you do any retreates? (not that you need these as consistent daily practice is what really does the job in my expereince).

Someone said "dark night will pass on its own" emoticon funny really as my experience is totally the oposite. But some humans might have better karmic points and pass through it easy while some of us seems to get the shit storm and we go ahead and show our boss the middle finger (I did this), sell the city apartment and move to the country side (I did this), divorce my lovely wife (I did this), alienate myself from the world (I did this), piss off many people (I did this) , etc ... ... ... emoticon yep! It didnt pass for 9 years on its own but what did help me plow throuhg it was a meditation method by Kenneth Folk called Freestyle Noting Aloud! Started in February and practiced daily, and in the end of June I passed it all.

Also someone said (yes St. Tim of the Cross) that one "can't see shit" in the dark night. Far from the truth! You cant see if you dont look emoticon but if you do look at, at least 1 sensation per second, for at least 45 minutes per day, you will see A LOT! and by seeing it you objectify it and by doing that you dis-embed from that experience = you awaken to that expereince as you clearly see it not being a Self, seeing it being Impermanent and seeing that if you cling to it it will be Dukkha! Boom! emoticon Job done. One after the other, experiences arise and pass away never to become! Nice emoticon momentary liberation, one moment at a time = this is Satipatthana aka Profound Engagement!

So if you are really sick and tired of it all I suggest you buckle up the seat belt as Kansas is going bye bye emoticon rethink your entire practice regiment and start a fresh by deciding what exact practice you want to follow up and open a Log thread here on DhO and keep updating it daily so we all can chime in and give you pointers as you go because you will,just like all of us encounter HINDRANCES emoticon this is normal and they are the very cause of suffering so good to know how to pass them skilfully. 

Awakening IS POSSIBLE! You just got to be awake in each moement by moment as they arise and pass away. Freestyle Noting Aloud can do just that.

I would suggest to keep the therapist for venting emotional stuff but do not mix therapy with meditation practice stuff. Separate those two.

If you do decide to practice freestyle noting aloud please tell and I can tell you more about it and show you some videos so you are clear on the practice. 
Also finding a techer that teaches Noting is a good thing.

May you find the energy and will to do this well and see that all these arisings are utterly transient experiences that can last only if we cling to them when we are not mindful of them in a profound way.

You can do this emoticon slowly but surely, one sensation at a time emoticon

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/2/20 3:12 AM as a reply to es pro.
Please see these videos by Kenneth Folk (he was my teacher last year when i was in your situation). 


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U1UK5_692eo&t=


here is a video by Kenneth talking about "naming the dragon" and how these dark negative scary things (mind states) loose their power when you name them, tell their name emoticon https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TvXij9B5xoQ

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/2/20 4:28 AM as a reply to es pro.
es pro:
Thanks...well I don't think this is one of those romanticized dark nights of the soul. A) I already had one, after a time when i Was TRULY living in my ego b) I found myself throughout my awakening... this is just a manifestation of some unresolved karma coming back to bite me C) it's getting worse, darker and darker, more and more horrible thoughts, less and less being, more doing, hyper vigilance. I feel like a machine that yes has completely lost touch with my soul D) unhealthy obsessions and anxieties look more like mental illness than dark night. I WISH this was a dark night, I mean it's a very dark night, but...hm. I guess what I'm thinking is, it isn't in my souls plan I don't believe. It's stuck energy and I don't know how it can ever get unstuck unless I can just relax...so far haven't been able to at all
but you're right that I need to just hang in there....somehow.... and I guess NOT seek any revelations/heart opening experiences ?
dear es,

the entire point of the dark night is to break down the nifty little distinctions you are still making, inside of what you are calling your soul's plan. How humiliating indeed, that this thing you're in looks more like mental illness than the romanticized dark night, that clean efficient little cure for the ego, that you had the first time. Embrace that humiliation, my friend. This is as good as it gets.

love, tim

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/2/20 6:53 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Tim Farrington:
the entire point of the dark night is to break down the nifty little distinctions you are still making, inside of what you are calling your soul's plan. How humiliating indeed, that this thing you're in looks more like mental illness than the romanticized dark night, that clean efficient little cure for the ego, that you had the first time. Embrace that humiliation, my friend. This is as good as it gets.love, tim


Dukkha Nanas aka Dark does not have aby "point" to it. It actually is form of mental ilness and can be more or less severe depending on how it was caused and of course the person experiencing it.

Structure of your brainforms when you grow up and evolves over time. It depends on genes and is influenced by interactions with other people. When you start introducing strong disturbances to it like vipassana meditation it can change and these changes can manifest itself in pleasant states of mind or unpleasant states of mind.

Because we are all humans these things manifestations can be very similar, especially when going from similar backgrounds and doing similar practices. This similarity means we can outline these manifestations and create maps and even call them stages of insight. But in itself there is no point to any of these manifestations. They just usually happen as a result of practices that do have point to them.

So I think that at the very most we can say that there is some value in experiencing states of mind such as this whole Dark Night fiasco and never that there is any point to it.

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/2/20 7:03 AM as a reply to Ni Nurta.
Ni Nurta:
Tim Farrington:
the entire point of the dark night is to break down the nifty little distinctions you are still making, inside of what you are calling your soul's plan. How humiliating indeed, that this thing you're in looks more like mental illness than the romanticized dark night, that clean efficient little cure for the ego, that you had the first time. Embrace that humiliation, my friend. This is as good as it gets.love, tim


Dukkha Nanas aka Dark does not have aby "point" to it. It actually is form of mental ilness and can be more or less severe depending on how it was caused and of course the person experiencing it.

Structure of your brainforms when you grow up and evolves over time. It depends on genes and is influenced by interactions with other people. When you start introducing strong disturbances to it like vipassana meditation it can change and these changes can manifest itself in pleasant states of mind or unpleasant states of mind.

Because we are all humans these things manifestations can be very similar, especially when going from similar backgrounds and doing similar practices. This similarity means we can outline these manifestations and create maps and even call them stages of insight. But in itself there is no point to any of these manifestations. They just usually happen as a result of practices that do have point to them.

So I think that at the very most we can say that there is some value in experiencing states of mind such as this whole Dark Night fiasco and never that there is any point to it.

Sri Ni,

Obviously we differ on this.

love, tim

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/2/20 8:29 AM as a reply to Ni Nurta.
Dukkha Nanas aka Dark does not have aby "point" to it. It actually is form of mental ilness and can be more or less severe depending on how it was caused and of course the person experiencing it.

I have to say that I disagree. During the times that I've experienced in the so-called "Dark Night" it has become painfully obvious that the reason, the cause, the goal if you will, was the exposure to my full conscious awareness of my deepest, darkest, most evil and ugly self - the thoughts that we all have but don't realize. Thoughts of death, of killing, of hatred, of anger, of pain, of disease, of mental illness, of horrible futures and terrible memories. This is what helps us get real about what it means to be a human being, to help us sympathize with everyone else, and to eventually realize equanimity and compassion. It's obvious to me why equanimity follows the dukkha nanas in the models. Not coincidence.

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/2/20 10:43 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
When I was suffer during Dark Night it became obvious to me that these states are caused by attachment to something which was working before and can not anymore and should be stopped by not incentivizing it to continue. More specifically during A&P activation in certain parts of the brain was source of great pleasure and naturally I wanted this pleasure to continue and so I continued this stimulation. Result of this was in suffering.

Another thing it made me realize was that over time parts of brain which process central area of focus are moved to process sides going further and further out. This is why during DN there is activity at sides of perception - it is continuation of activity from previous stage A&P that I could not let go of. Also because of constant usage these parts of brain were still linked to what should be mapped to new parts of brain which made up now central area of focus.

Brain does it because central area of focus need much more processing power and thus will put more stress on neurons and neurons can not be active for too long before they get tired and start sending signals they have enough. We typically call these signals as pain. By constantly shifting parts of the brain used for different parts of focus brain can also make sure that anything that appears at side area of focus will get recognized the same way as it would when it is in focus eg. recognize there is a snake.

Still, no point in first doing something unskillful (here, clinging to A&P pleasure) and then suffering because of it. Realizations about myself that I had and all the knowledge and skills in how to deal with events such as these (which can still happen even after full enlightenment - especially when the clinging and over-stimulation is very mild) are not any point of going through DN. There was no point in it whatsoever. It was stupid of me to do so. Most if not all meditation practitioners go through them and even if they are all make the same errors that does not justify them. Unskillful behavior, even if its cause is ignorance, is still unskillful behavior and should be called as that.

As for self being ugly... perceived beauty or ugliness of things is made by concurrent activation of parts of brain which process these things and parts which add qualities to them. Trigger bliss or pain at the same time as you process something you see and it will even affect how it looks to you to be either ugly or beautiful. Trigger the same bliss or pain at different time and it might land on something else or be perceived without context. It is no wonder sense of self appear as ugly during DN when it was just overused to the point it should not be touched. It does however not say anything about sense of self itself other than maybe if this perception persists then you have work to do because you damaged something or need to refresh actual perception.

Yes, another thing I learned was that in order for brain to conserve power and limit activation of its parts is to automatically repeat responses it got from last activation. This happens when you query them in certain ways and when you do in other ways they will actually go through the process of generating current state by activating all the other parts which generate this state... and then can repeat this updated state also as it was continuously experienced. This suggests that at least some part of suffering which is being felt is just some repeated experience of something that have nothing to do with what is happening in the body now. And in fact it is... most of it.

When your brain does not do these refreshes of its own state and last known state is bad then it might feel like its suffering in a lot of places even though its just repeated perception and if brain put the effort to query its internal state it might see that it isn't as bad as it seems. Then when the refresh does happens then suddenly all might seems just fine and dandy. And here is your Equanimity aka glorified checking everything is ok. And because it happens all at once the recorded perceptions that are now playing contain activation of everything giving you perception of everything being contained in everything called "formations" as a nice bonus =)

If you were visualizing these mind states then there would be point to having them eg. to understand them better and maybe create some new fancy mind states in the process. When they just happen then there is no point to them whatsoever and it is just nervous system blindly reacting in unskillful ways and creating patterns.

Ryokan, a Zen master, lived the simplest kind of life in a little hut at the foot of a mountain. One evening a thief visited the hut only to discover there was nothing to steal.

Ryokan returned and caught him. "You have come a long way to visit me," he told the prowler, "and you should not return empty-handed. Please take my clothes as a gift."

The thief was bewildered. He took the clothes and slunk away.

Ryoken sat naked, watching the moon. "Poor fellow," he mused, "I wish I could have given him this beautiful moon."

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/2/20 10:10 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Yeah I really dont think this is a dark night, it's just a loss of equanimity aka mental illness, I mean yes in the past it was followed by a blossoming, and there's no reason why this one shouldn't, it's only my grasping for love and blossoming that will push it away until I stop

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/3/20 9:17 AM as a reply to Ni Nurta.
When I was suffer during Dark Night it became obvious to me that these states are caused by attachment to something which was working before and can not anymore and should be stopped by not incentivizing it to continue. More specifically during A&P activation in certain parts of the brain was source of great pleasure and naturally I wanted this pleasure to continue and so I continued this stimulation. Result of this was in suffering.

If only this was what Dark Night was about   emoticon

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/3/20 1:06 PM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
If only this was what Dark Night was about   emoticon

In a sense it is even simpler and I mentioned it in the latter part of my post. Most of what constitute experience is result of power saving measures that brain uses to not need to trigger itself continuously to generate information. It just repeats last known responses.

Most suffering can be thus eliminated in as simple ways as merely somehow stimulating brain to actually run the processing to get actual state (make neurons which supposedly feel in certain way to actually check how they feel). Then the new reading will be repeated. Even if there are other issues in the brain then still by merely doing that refresh on most glarring constant suffering is enough most of the time to change suffering in to bliss. Especially when you know how to make this refresh to be pretty much "jhanic". The important thing here is to not overstimulate neurons when doing this or they will feel suffering again and then it will take some time to be able to do it right... or some more nuanced skills in running your brain.

As for qoted part, during A&P you have certain parts point to center of focus. These parts move to process other parts of focus but connections which link these parts to center of focus that go from awareness to focus will remain as  they were and when you want to focus more on center you make sides more stimulated. New center is elsewhere, mapped then to nothing in your awareness. Fortunately it is nothing that cannot be solved. Even without skills of more direct re-mapping (yes, this can be practiced) all it takes is spending some time on merely not triggering anything and brain will reorganise itself. Then there are meta-processes which normally do that. These might seem to respond with suffering and even seem completely broken when you query them but it is usually the same issue as I mentioned in the beginning of this post. Things might appear one way and be actually completely fixed later and you won't know it. So at least two methods there, three is you can remap this manually.

Especially certain responses parts of brain can give can be very discouraging to actually go through them. In extreme cases the experience of trying to go deeper in to them can be of the type that is completely unagreeable, a kind of mix of numbness and very strong aversion. You normally do not touch things which feel that way because it seems you will broke something if you did... then if you somehow manage to go through this kind of feeling it will then dissolve and you have direct access to more of your brain circuitry than you had before.

In DN there are also often issues of having two experiences pointing to the same thing which generate a lot of turmoil in awareness. Also because of generally screwed up routing most of the processing need to happen in the same parts of the brain and they cannot finish processing before being triggered again to do another thing which overuse these parts of the brain. As general rule you either let parts of brain finish processing or put them to sleep, and in both cases use different parts for processing next thing, even if it is the same object. It requires refined routing to do, not something that would happen naturally in DN because meta-process that does it for you is not properly connected. In DN you most likely get the issue that is something gets processed by two parts of brain at once brain wont be able to merge them automatically...

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/3/20 1:45 PM as a reply to Ni Nurta.
Um, okay.

emoticon

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/4/20 4:14 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/4/20 9:39 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
Um, okay.

emoticon
Why such response?

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/4/20 9:46 AM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Tim Farrington:
LOL
This is more or less how it works emoticon

Besides, if laws can be broken then they were illusion of laws and not real limits.

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/5/20 9:30 AM as a reply to Ni Nurta.
Why such response?

Because your comments appeared to me to be a mish-mash of semi-scientific jargon that I can't make sense of. Maybe they make sense and I'm just not smart enough, or maybe they just don't make sense. I honestly don't know. Thus my consternation.

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/5/20 10:23 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
Why such response?

Because your comments appeared to me to be a mish-mash of semi-scientific jargon that I can't make sense of. Maybe they make sense and I'm just not smart enough, or maybe they just don't make sense. I honestly don't know. Thus my consternation.

I say it's the latter. Ni nurta sounds like me when i was all into science as a teenager but didn't quite grasp it... I'm sure this perception/wrong speech of mine has something to do with some special neurons in my head which are firing the wrong way though, perhaps the broca area :p

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/5/20 10:45 AM as a reply to es pro.
I don't know about equanimity, but there is a saying in some Christian circles that says "love never fails"

A couple ramifications: You might be in a quiet phase. Learn to expand all your senses. It will eventually stick.
Pick a certain order to your senses, I have done that. Let go of the notion that you will validate your childhood dreams. When you order your senses, you will pick up on odd vibrations. That could be what is happening now. 

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/5/20 6:16 PM as a reply to Olivier.
Olivier:
I say it's the latter. Ni nurta sounds like me when i was all into science as a teenager but didn't quite grasp it... I'm sure this perception/wrong speech of mine has something to do with some special neurons in my head which are firing the wrong way though, perhaps the broca area :p

Perhaps you should teach these neurons of yours some Zen...

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/6/20 10:53 AM as a reply to Papa Che Dusko.
I used to do a lot of Goenka vipassana before DN #1then had to let go of the attachment to it.
in the last 2 years , no practice. Life was my practice. Everywhere I went I was awakening, wounds arising in chakras, emotions coming up etc. I did a lot of lying down meditation though when I felt the need.
currently no practice - again life is my practice I guess but it's all stuck in thoughts.

awakening would be amazing . But I am not in a great place for it. I am filled with self doubt. I am so attached to love and awakening that there is barely an opportunity - each moment my ego is working hard to get out of this. Because of social withdrawal, apathy etc it's so hard to be with what is. Awakening can only happen when I am not looking so hard.
i would mostly like to know if I am not alone in ego death. I am super concerned about this. The Buddha says anything is possible but there's huge doubt in me that says "not for me, because I killed my ego structure, I'm fucked"

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/6/20 11:27 AM as a reply to es pro.
Also please someone let me know when going back and time and starting again has been figured out. Or induced awakenings. Lol 

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/6/20 11:55 AM as a reply to es pro.
Your ego is just fine. It is on vacation or something emoticon

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/6/20 2:51 PM as a reply to Ni Nurta.
You guys mention about dark night ending with the realization of equanimity. HOW??? Does it just happen after enough gruelling torture ?

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/6/20 3:28 PM as a reply to es pro.
Actually it is like nothing substantial happens, your brain does something and one moment you suffer and next moment you don't.
Kinda makes whole suffering you went through loose its meaning...

Try to remember how EQ feel. It will be quite useful when later DN will happen again.
Nanas from 5th to 8th aren't as easy to just trick your way out but when you attempt it then they can be kinda fun.
9th and 10th on the other hand are just boring as hell as nothing is even happening anymore that would warrant any suffering and it just seems like repeated nonsense. Might as well end it there with EQ.

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/7/20 12:30 AM as a reply to Ni Nurta.
I believe nothing's impossible (I'm the one praying for realizing love and equanimity in sleep) but the last 3 months, things have been moving the opposite direction of surrender. My ego has gotten stronger, I've been less emotional and more mental. 
I had a good cry a few weeks ago with my therapist. Then, I KNEW what was possible - relaxing into and deep healing of my being. But when the fear keeps hitting, I cannot heal. Now when I see her I cannot relax as much. Well maybe this is just my linear thinking.
i don't know how experience love when it comes when you least expect It, and I'm grasping every moment , not trusting that if I don't grasp, I will be trapped in this forever 
like I don't wanna complain (well..) but a typical day I wake up and immediate aversion to existing and doing anything, notice lack of love, obsess, talking to people triggers more obsession and lack, activities I usually love trigger lack.how to surrender into this ? I feel like the only way is to truly somehow trick my mind into being happy and ok with things

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/7/20 7:22 AM as a reply to es pro.
It sounds to me like you are avoiding the inevitable result of being human and alive. It can hurt. You can be afraid. You may get depressed, sad, lonely. But you might also be happy, content, find love, see all the beauty that surrounds you, and be lifted up by that experience. Don't you want to experience your entire life? Isn't that why you practice and go to therapy?

EDIT: I realize this comment sounds trite, but it's meant to make you think about how you see the problem you're experiencing. Your framing seems off to me. Most folks who come here want to have an awakening, which coincides with the dropping of the pretenses of ego and the discomfort that goes along with that. You seem to be framing this is a problem. Is it really?

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/7/20 9:23 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
I didn't say that was a problem, I'm saying the problem is the strength of my unrelenting ego while wanting an awakening.

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/7/20 9:45 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
I'm saying the problem is the strength of my unrelenting ego while wanting an awakening.

Okay - that's the place from which we all start.

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/10/20 11:05 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
I'm saying the problem is the strength of my unrelenting ego while wanting an awakening.

Okay - that's the place from which we all start.

and
We shall not cease from exploration, and the end of all our exploring
will be to arrive where we started and know the place for the first time.
T.S. Eliot, "Burnt Norton"

love, tim

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/10/20 3:49 PM as a reply to Tim Farrington.
Round trip.

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/11/20 10:57 PM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Yeah....still experiencing a ton of suffering 
feels like equanimity is getting worse....every little thing triggers me and I just am getting thru each moment...don't really know how to do this 
each moment I am not really aware of sensations, it's mostly cognitive 

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/12/20 5:08 AM as a reply to Chris Marti.
Chris Marti:
Round trip.


lol. yes.

RE: Can’t stop suffering
Answer
7/12/20 5:10 AM as a reply to es pro.
es pro:
Yeah....still experiencing a ton of suffering 
feels like equanimity is getting worse....every little thing triggers me and I just am getting thru each moment...don't really know how to do this 
each moment I am not really aware of sensations, it's mostly cognitive 

hey es,
don't really know how to do this 

yup.


love, tim